What makes the "nerd" or "geek" girl so desirable?

[Palomine]

Prompted by a VCR Alert thread about that Malcom in the Middle episode we all like so much: http://forum.bearchive.com//showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=47574&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1&PHPSESSID= I thought that perhaps we might chat a bit about the appeal of the "nerd" or "geek" or "tomboy" girl/woman as seen/encountered in model pix, sitcoms/movies, real life, etc...

Examples of this genre (from TV, so we can start with a common reference set) include Sara Silverman (recently of Fox's doomed Greg the Bunny, but previously on Saturday Night Live and many other shows); Tania Raymonde, who plays Cynthia on Malcom in the Middle; and perhaps even Gillian Anderson, though she really left the geek/nerd/bookish genre altogether and crossed into just-plain-glamour after the earliest seasons of the X-Files IMHO. Another example is Liza Weil (sp?) from the film Whatever. Yet another one that comes to mind is the young female lead (Caitlan something?) in that old movie Dragonslayer... she was quite the tomboy (actually posing as a boy) and of course later 'came out'. Yet another 'geek' character that comes to mind is the administrative assistant played by Sandra Oh on HBO's Arliss.

Sarah (as embodied by her character on Greg the Bunny) is perhaps also a bit outright gorgeous, but from seeing her on various interview shows she does come off as a little strange (some might say geeky or freaky) in real-life. The character of Cynthia is more traditional geek IMHO.

Of course, the basic factors of this appeal are somewhat simple: the characters they portray are supposed to me smart and even for boob-hounds, intelligence is a considerable aphrodisiac. Also, the fact that these characters sometimes (preferably imho) don't generally dress to impress but rather favor raggedy sweaters and baggy jeans does increase their 'oomph' factor once you're given an idea/opportunity of what wonders lie beneath. Yes, perhaps it's cliche, but when the shy, bookish brunette with the coke-bottle specs is transformed (ala Hollywood) into the primo beauty queen of the movie... it's more impactful than if she'd been all glammed up from the get go.

Personally, I favor the idea that the geek stays a geek (that there's no permanent make-over). Of course, others might like it better when the 'outing' is permanent as an example of realized potential.. that relatively recent Disney movie (Princess something?) where it's sort of a remake of My Fair Lady comes to mind, though there are surely dozens of such films and tv shows that utilize the ugly duckling turns into a swan theme... there've probably been dozens of copies of Cindarella alone.

From a personal experience POV (leaving our shared reference set for a moment) I can say that in my finite experience, I've ALWAYS fallen hard for smart women and will probably always continue to do so. When the woman in question also looks the part, it just adds to the appeal for me. I love glasses on a woman (and not just for the contrast rush of when they come off) and in real-life I do prefer a GF/SO who generally dresses modestly most of the time (not that I don't appreciate a little public cleavage once in a while... I do). Business clothes are sexy (espeically when you can tell there's a wonderfully soft curvy feminie bod beneath the conservative suit) as are the traditional baggy sweater/Timberlands ensemble. In my years "on the shark" the real-life gals who could be classed (if pushed) as geek/nerd/bookish all happened to be brunettes... some lush and curvy and some thin and sharp featured (probably the cause of my appreciation for models like Arlene Bell).

OK, my rambling aside... can anyone else put forward some geek/nerd/tomboy faves or comment more elegantly than I on their appeal?
 

[Chestnuts]

Just to get the ball rolling a little, I used to watch the tv show WKRP in Cincinnati, not to see Loni Anderson, but to see the more modest brunette, whatever her name is now, I forget. Wished I could bang the hell out of her. Always prefer smart women first, then see what comes with it.  

[Palomine]

Jan Smithers I think (the actress, not the character). Of course I liked her too... much more than Loni. Yes, her boobs were smaller, but there's just something about that kind of woman (beyond the underdog appeal of her being cast alongside someone like Loni Anderson).

Though she's not really a geek/nerd/tomboy in the traditional sense, Kate Jackson as Sabrina on Charlie's Angels was also my fave of those gals.

Of course, it's important to note that just because an actress plays a sharp, smart character on TV it doesn't necessarily mean she's as quick-witted as the character. Kate Jackson comes to mind in this area, as does (sadly) Gillian Anderson who, from what I've read/seen (caveat/disclaimer acknowledged that I don't actually know her) is not Scully by any stretch of the imagination.

[Thedoctor]

geek women is weak so does no threat to weak maculinity  

[bertdatroll]

Well, Palomine, I think you summed it up pretty well for me.  I've never gone for the beauty queen types.  Aside from the intelligence aspect I think women who wear little or no cosmetics and dress as you described come off to me as more comfortable with themselves as who they are; nothing to prove, take me as I am.  For me, the transformation you described never really has to take place.  Don't get me wrong, I think dressing up has its time and place but for me who she is to begin with (nerd / geek / bookish) is more appealing than "potential" glamour.

I guess, to sum it up, what I find appealing is the fact that they seem far less superficial and more down to earth.  


Then again, I may be completely out of my mind...



Oh yeah...       Jan Smithers was  great!  

[gOOber]

[gOOber]

 Yeah, what he said.

[Hunter_S_Creek]

Just two cents worth of points on the subject:

Part of my psyche notes that nerdettes are probably less likely to wander or dump one for the next bigger better deal.  Also, my initial attraction is usually grounded in something a bit more solid than just her looks.

I've almost always rooted for the underdog (no pun intended).

Nerdettes seem to be less fickle and more predictable.

In my experience, late bloomers usually handle their newly developed attractiveness with more stability and maturity than early bloomers.

The nerdette-to-babe transformation (whether temporary or as an evolution) contains suspense and mystery.  I suppose it has a similar appeal as the difference between watching a fully clothed girl slowly strip as opposed to just seeing a naked girl suddenly appear.

If I see the hint of underlying attractiveness in a nerdette, I wonder if I am the only one that has discovered it.  It's like having a secret prize.

 

[Palomine]

Hunter, all excellent points... the whole underdog thing (Sweet Polly Purebread was sorta nerdish I think I recall ) and there's the (hopefully not projected or imagined) idea that a woman who may not be the constant target of male attention would potentially treat you better than one who's being hit on 24/7. This doesn't (I think) play to the beholder's own insecurities, but simply I believe is a rationale to hoped-for loyalty in a S.O.

I'm racking my brain trying to come up with other nerdettes of note to no avail. Surely some other folks out there have faves?

Perhaps: JoAnne Liebler (cable channel home-improvement host... a strapping woman always wearing jeans and timberlands and handy with a belt sander... clearly though she's well-assembled), Sarah Moulton (cable channel cooking show host... sort of a foodie nerd: short, a bit plump but clearly smart, funny and domestically blessed), etc...?

[Rev_Monsoon]

Sarah Silverman is hot!   I've loved her since I saw her on SNL, her appearance on Star Trek Voyager, and Greg the Bunny (the only reason I watched that show).
  For me a woman's got to have brains.      

Yikes!  I'm all stretchy!

[Connoisseur]

Total agree a about Jan Smithers.  I only watched the show to see her.

Another woman with a similarly powerful appeal to me is Marcia Strassman.  She played the wife of the Rick Moranis character in Honey, I Shrunk the Kids and its sequel.  

[sheber]

Marcia Strassman had two seperate roles in the opening season of M*A*S*H and was the wife in Welcome Back, Kotter before Honey, I Shrunk/Honey, I Blew up the Kid(s). But we've digressed from the geeky to the pixie-ish.  The common thread?  Glasses.  Maybe we should defer this to St. Stephan.  I've got an overlooked geekette, Facts of Life co-star, Zapped heroine, Felice Schachter.
Jan Smithers played Bailey Quarters on WKRP.  Give me a moment to scan my drives for links to the above mentioned...

http://www.eskimo.com%2F%7Ebpentium%2Fmarcia%2Fstrassman.html
http://www.eskimo.com/~bpentium/marcia/strassman.html (same site, different syntax)

http://www.expage.com/FeliceSchachter

Jan Smithers:
http://www.girlswithglasses.com/gallery/celebs/TV/bailey.html
http://www.world-of-newave.com/celebrities/s/smithers-jan/
http://www.celebrity-gallery.com/content/JanSmithers/jan1.htm
http://www.clothmonkey.com/smithers.htm


         

[StriderDaGoat]

Give me samantha from Bewitched.  Eh gads to this day she still gets me going!  Even that little nose wiggle thing is great.

[CyberPlainsDrifter]

Jan Smithers wasn't that much smaller, if at all smaller boobwise, than Loni Anderson.  The producers went to great lengths to hide her boobs & make her look frumpy--w/o much success I might add.  I saw her a couple of times other than in WKRP & found she was wonderfully endowed.  It seems like I even read somewhere, several years ago, that they even had her wearing a minimizer bra to make them look much smaller.  She was far and away more sexy than Loni could even dream about being.  

[bustykathi]

So, where were you guys when I was in High School? LOL!      

[invisible pervert]

!WARNING! PERVERT THEORY FORMING !WARNING!

Maybe it's because they seem like us, therefore making them approachable without the "err yuk" syndrome of rejection (ok that's my experiance anyway  ) but deep down we want a drop dead gorgeous bombshell, so the idea is that all the hunky bastards will ignor her and we can score with the babe in disguise  

Just a theory.

 

[SteveZ]

I would just like to take this oppurtunity to formally, but politely, poo-poo on Invisible Pervert's theory.

I think the geek-girl appeal is not so much that her sexuality isn't obvious to OTHERS, but that it's not necessarily obvious to HER.  And in that respect, as YOU help her discover her sexuality, she can discover it on YOUR terms.

Often, when a big-bust girl (geek or not) finally meets the RIGHT boob man, she develops an appreciation for her bosom that she may not have known before.

But that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.

Steve Z  

[bertdatroll]

Well, Kathi...
Apparently I was half the country away...    


You know, looking at my earlier post, I don't think that came out quite the way I intended.

[Dave Brubeck]

You're forgetting Rachel Leigh Cook in "She's All That"... For me, the "nerd"/"geek" look is attractive because intelligence is something I look for in a woman. Not that that look is a guarantee that it's actually there, but it suggests it.  

[nick_caesar]

Well...  I'm not sure I'd always equate "nerd/geek" with "tomboy". The latter I am very fond of, the former not quite so much. Both, however, are indeed preferable in real life to a "glamour girl" sort of gal ... I'd say probably because as a guy I can relate with the former two more than I could an ultra-feminine type. Plus the intelligence, accessibility, and all other reasons mentioned here are all crucial components to a winning personality, IMO.

That said, I prefer the more glamorous look in my private fantasies, as should probably be evidenced by the morph work I do here at the BEA. While I can understand the appeal of the couple of intellectual-type gals mentioned here, it's usually something I look for in the girls I know in real life, rather than distant media figures / characters.

Style counts when you're gazing from afar; substance is what matters when you're up close.

Just some thoughts.

[soonersfan]

I guess that I really shouldn't mention Catherine Bell, as she most certainly has the glamour look going on right now (well, that and the tomboy look).  And, I have no idea whether or not she had the geek look when she was younger (I doubt it as I hear that she used to be a model).  But according to this article in Wired magazine, she appears to be quite the gadget freak and geek under that exterior of hers.

[Zasha]

So I've been lurking quietly here to see if anybody really hits on it - of course, it has to come from a girl!!!  All of you guys are going to go "D'OH!"

The "nerd/geek/tomboy/plain jane" is the total polar opposite of the hot chick that you have your messy little dreams about, and it all boils down to and can be spelled out in two words:

LOW MAINTENANCE...

...or maybe I've missed the point...

[gOOber]

Hmmmmm, "low maintenance". Interesting concept.  

[Palomine]

More excellent points from all. Though I would like to disagree (for my POV) with the idea that the appeal stems from a desire for increased control or for low maintenance. To me, the appeal of the nerdette genre is simply one of attraction: I like the look and find it easy to project (imagined) qualities on it (intelligence primarily). Of course a look in and of itself means nothing... I'm sure that there are barbie lookalikes out there with 200 IQs and Jan Smithers lookalikes with barely 2 brain cells to rub together, but in terms of fantasy figures (tv, film, etc...) the look is all that's required since you're never meeting those people anyway. Which is not to say that you're constantly pleasuring yourself whilst thinking of them either... just that there is an appeal: Sarah Silverman wearing glasses and talking quickly is just plain sexy and easily admired from a simple visual respect.

Thinking back I haven't enjoyed the relationships I've been in where I have been able to exercise more control any more than those relationships where I haven't. Maintenance is a factor in the satisfaction garnered from a relationship of course... some women need (people for that matter) more than others. Excessive requirements in that area can be laborius and detract from the overall experience... I went out with a lovely woman who despite many fine qualities had such significant self esteem problems that her resulting behavior definitely put a damper on our time together... to constantly try to prop up her self image and monitor every possible interpretation of my words and actions was very maintentance intensive and disappointing. However, I don't know if there's really any real-life correllation between nerdette and low-maintenance... I think the maturity and self-confidence that can lead a person to be happy with themselves (and not require so much maintenance from their SO) has little to do with their 'look.'

JMHO.

PS: I agree that the tomboy look is different from the nerd/geek one by a considerable margin. I like both (my most sincere childhood crushes were all on local tomboys... even back then I admired strength in women) but tend to encounter more nerdettes than tomboys in real life these days.

[Rev_Monsoon]

Rachael Cook's eyes....

http://www.anycelebrity.com/Actresses/Cook,_Rachael_Leigh/index.html

[sheber]

Mmmm,  Jan Smithers.......  

[Palomine]

Some Jan Smithers fakes for the fans....  

[Palomine]

A headshot (not fake obviously)  

[Palomine]

Another fake (most are well over the 150K limit here). Kudos and credit the fakirs of course.  

[Palomine]

Not the most convincing fake, but nice body.  

[Palomine]

The orig of that first fake.  

[Palomine]

Fake or not? No idea.  

[Palomine]

Last one. Reminds me to ask a question about sorting files... goto the off-topic forum and lend some wisdom.... thanks..  

[sheber]

Wow. That picture of Jan and Loni in the WKRP tees is one of the top ten "must own"s on my wish list.  Any ideas where I can find a high res version?

[Palomine]

Sorry no idea... found that one ages ago. Probably scanned out of a mag years ago... may not be a better one around...