MERGED: The Politics Thread

[3deroticer]

Quote:
Dearc said:
One thing I've noticed not said here, is that many politicians say things, get elected, and 'forget' to do what they said they would.  Anyone remember "Read my lips-NO NEW TAXES!"?

When a republican announce his intention such as "I'm a uniter not a devider" then expect the opposite! or "No ch**d fall behind", then expecting dissing of our education system.

It's getting to be that any blatant statement is more of an opposite announcement!

[pedonbio]

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
mofoapoo said:Obama, on the other hand, was excepted into a high end law school, but before he did that, he took his Columbia degree AND MOVED TO SOUTHERN CHICAGO.  He was able to get into harvard, but instead of doing that right away, he set aside 3 years of his life to helping people.  Come on.  People are just being a bit too cynical these days.  You gotta take what you can get.

Nobody, other than a priest sent there by the church, moves to the south side of Chicago to help people unless there's money involved.

I spent three years there getting an education. Fucker, you be diss'n my alma mater!! Me and Milton Friedman gonna cap yo' ass!!!

[Lesbian Bob]

I'll vote for McCain only if Sarah Palin poses nude and keeps her mouth shut for the next 4 years.  Her voice is sooooo graaaating, and she says such idiotic things.

[3deroticer]

Does anyone know if that's an Alaskan accent? That voice is kind of grating, and I thought Michigander sound quite grating.

[TheZookie007]

Sarah Palin's accent sounds like a bad mix of Jesse Ventura and the McKenzie Brothers from SCTV

[Dearc]

Right now, I'm worried that American's will be forced to make one of two choices:

1.  Capitalism run-amok, will little or no gov't oversight, corporate creed beyond measure, and worst of all, privatization of basic gov't services, like education and defense.  It'll be like Weyland-Yutani (Aliens) and Omni Consumer Products (OCP-Robocop).

OR

2.  Gov't control of all assets and services.  We've already nationalized the housing and banking industry, now insurance.  Socialism isn't exactly compatible with what Americans expect.  Only elitists would be spared.

Let's all remember that the 'unofficial plan' in the next couple decades is to form the North American Union, formerly comprised of Mexico, the U.S. and Canada.  We're starting to look like Europe, and that sucks.

And no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist or paranoid schizo.  These are WORST CASE scenerios, and I don't believe they're far off.

[ChrisR1]

Quote:
Dearc said:
Right now, I'm worried that American's will be forced to make one of two choices:

1.  Capitalism run-amok, will little or no gov't oversight, corporate creed beyond measure, and worst of all, privatization of basic gov't services, like education and defense.  It'll be like Weyland-Yutani (Aliens) and Omni Consumer Products (OCP-Robocop).

OR

2.  Gov't control of all assets and services.  We've already nationalized the housing and banking industry, now insurance.  Socialism isn't exactly compatible with what Americans expect.  Only elitists would be spared.

Let's all remember that the 'unofficial plan' in the next couple decades is to form the North American Union, formerly comprised of Mexico, the U.S. and Canada.  We're starting to look like Europe, and that sucks.

And no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist or paranoid schizo.  These are WORST CASE scenerios, and I don't believe they're far off.

This is what I see happening too. I think the true centrists are really being squeezed out - only the wackiest of the wack-jobs on either side are able to get elected, by playing to their respective bases. If someone has a voting record (and I'm aware that this isn't how they read, but for example) that read like this D, D, D, R, D, R - you'd hear, from the campaign of an opposing D "He sided with R on these issues...what will he side with them on next? Vote me, no flip-flopping..." And vise-versa.
My biggest problem with voting for Obama has nothing to do with him, but the Democratic Congress and Senate; I never like any one party, Democratic or Republican, controlling the Presidency, House, and Senate at any one time. It seems that's always when the 'wackiest of the wackies' are up to shenenagins and getting absolute lunacy passed into law.

[pedonbio]

Quote:
Dearc said:
2.  Gov't control of all assets and services.  We've already nationalized the housing and banking industry, now insurance.  Socialism isn't exactly compatible with what Americans expect.  Only elitists would be spared.

 

And you think that the way to prevent that is to vote for the Republicans, who would never ever...oooppps?

One way to think clearly is to use words in their true meaning. "Elitist" means either "snob" or "people at the top". But when a Republican uses it, they mean "smart". If you use a fork and flush the toilet, you're an "elitist".

Do you mean something different?

[Hugeboobfan]

Quote:
Dearc said:
We're starting to look like Europe, and that sucks.

Would it mean a universal single-payer health insurance plan and 6 weeks of vacation a year?  If so, count me in!

[TheZookie007]

Quote:
Dearc said:
We're starting to look like Europe, and that sucks.

If that means that our women start looking like uber-busty Polish, Czech and German women, count me in!

"The RNC BarackRolled"

[3deroticer]

Quote:
pedonbio said:

Quote:
Dearc said:
2.  Gov't control of all assets and services.  We've already nationalized the housing and banking industry, now insurance.  Socialism isn't exactly compatible with what Americans expect.  Only elitists would be spared.

 

And you think that the way to prevent that is to vote for the Republicans, who would never ever...oooppps?

One way to think clearly is to use words in their true meaning. "Elitist" means either "snob" or "people at the top". But when a Republican uses it, they mean "smart". If you use a fork and flush the toilet, you're an "elitist".

Do you mean something different?

Elitist?
A man who was raise on welfare and a single working mom is consider an elitist?
The name calling is seriously funny when it is use regardless of the meaning. If Elitist is a code word for being smart, then we have reach the threshold of actually embracing stupidity. Perhaps with GWB being the bottom of his class and McCain being the bottom fifth of his naval academy schooling, that once again with the help of the media, we would still embrace stupidity.

[SwitcherX]

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
mofoapoo said:Obama, on the other hand, was excepted into a high end law school, but before he did that, he took his Columbia degree AND MOVED TO SOUTHERN CHICAGO.  He was able to get into harvard, but instead of doing that right away, he set aside 3 years of his life to helping people.  Come on.  People are just being a bit too cynical these days.  You gotta take what you can get.

Nobody, other than a priest sent there by the church, moves to the south side of Chicago to help people unless there's money involved.

And you know this how?

Fresh out of college I got a job working for a Chicago company.  Shortly after I started, 1 of the local "community outreach groups" asked for a grant "to help with education".  All they did was threaten to call us racists if we didn't give them the grant.  The book Shakedown: Exposing the Real Jesse Jackson gives an idea of how these things works.

[SwitcherX]

Quote:
pedonbio said:

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
mofoapoo said:Obama, on the other hand, was excepted into a high end law school, but before he did that, he took his Columbia degree AND MOVED TO SOUTHERN CHICAGO.  He was able to get into harvard, but instead of doing that right away, he set aside 3 years of his life to helping people.  Come on.  People are just being a bit too cynical these days.  You gotta take what you can get.

Nobody, other than a priest sent there by the church, moves to the south side of Chicago to help people unless there's money involved.

I spent three years there getting an education. Fucker, you be diss'n my alma mater!! Me and Milton Friedman gonna cap yo' ass!!!

Now that's funny.  

[mastert]

I was driving home the other day when I thought of the perfect analogy for this election

Imagine, if you will, a 21 year old girl. On her left is a smart, good looking man, with a stable job a good personality. On her right is her current boyfriend. This boyfriend is emotionally abusive but he's a better looking man than the guy on the left. The guy on her left just asked out the 21 year old girl. She's smitten with him. She goes to the man on the right and tells him she's dumping him. The guy on the right tells her that no one will love her as much as him.

So she agrees to just 1 date with the guy on the left. He picked her up in his car and brings her flowers. She sits there on the date and is exactly what she needs at this point in her life. She learned the guy on the left has a wild friend but is also a down to earth guy and had cheated only once in his life. After a good date, she invites him in the house and the clothes come off. However she realizes that he is like one of her ex-boyfriends. He didn't have enough experience in the sack to satisfy her completely.

Later on the next day the guy on the right asks, what happened last night. She tells him exactly what happened. He flips out and tells her nobody will love her as much as he does. Then the clothes come off and he rocks her world. During pillow talk, he tells her everything she wants to hear and her mind clouds over and they go to sleep.

The next day the guy on the right catches her on the phone with the guy on the left. So he goes out with his friend and they both pick up a set of sisters and they both come back to the house. She sees the situation and goes nuts, but the girl he picked up goes home. Later on, she finds lipstick on his collar after telling her nothing happened?

In the end, she knows the guy on the left is exactly what her life needs. But the guy on the right is toxic, but knows how she likes it. So does she go to the left or does she go to the right?

[TheZookie007]

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
mofoapoo said:Obama, on the other hand, was excepted into a high end law school, but before he did that, he took his Columbia degree AND MOVED TO SOUTHERN CHICAGO.  He was able to get into harvard, but instead of doing that right away, he set aside 3 years of his life to helping people.  Come on.  People are just being a bit too cynical these days.  You gotta take what you can get.

Nobody, other than a priest sent there by the church, moves to the south side of Chicago to help people unless there's money involved.

And you know this how?

Fresh out of college I got a job working for a Chicago company.  Shortly after I started, 1 of the local "community outreach groups" asked for a grant "to help with education".  All they did was threaten to call us racists if we didn't give them the grant.  The book Shakedown: Exposing the Real Jesse Jackson gives an idea of how these things works.

So you are conflating Operation PUSH with Obama? Please.

[collared_cherri]

Quote:
mastert said:
So does she go to the left or does she go to the right?

She goes gay.  

[3deroticer]

Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama
They all look alike!

[TheZookie007]

Quote:
mastert said:
So does she go to the left or does she go to the right?

She goes for a menage a trois

[SwitcherX]

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:
So you are conflating Operation PUSH with Obama? Please.

No, I'm trying to tell you how things work in Chicago.

[Dearc]

Quote:
3deroticer said:

Quote:
pedonbio said:

Quote:
Dearc said:
2.  Gov't control of all assets and services.  We've already nationalized the housing and banking industry, now insurance.  Socialism isn't exactly compatible with what Americans expect.  Only elitists would be spared.

 

And you think that the way to prevent that is to vote for the Republicans, who would never ever...oooppps?

One way to think clearly is to use words in their true meaning. "Elitist" means either "snob" or "people at the top". But when a Republican uses it, they mean "smart". If you use a fork and flush the toilet, you're an "elitist".

Do you mean something different?

Elitist?
A man who was raise on welfare and a single working mom is consider an elitist?
The name calling is seriously funny when it is use regardless of the meaning. If Elitist is a code word for being smart, then we have reach the threshold of actually embracing stupidity. Perhaps with GWB being the bottom of his class and McCain being the bottom fifth of his naval academy schooling, that once again with the help of the media, we would still embrace stupidity.

IMHO, "elitist" would mean someone whose neglected the lower/middle classes.  Origins (such as, well, all candidates) are IRRELEVANT.  All but McCain came from lower/middle classes, and it's only because McCain's father was an Admiral in the Navy when he enlisted.

Wether or not ANY candidate will reveal any sense of elitism, has yet to be seen.  Right now, getting money to finish off their campaign debt is certainly on top of the "honey-do" list.  Just remember, lobbyists pay tons and tons of money, and why do their programs get passed through, while REAL problems get back-burnered.

As far as European free health care, I'm lacking solid intel.  I guess like anyone else, I want to choose my own hospital and research treatment options.  I'm young enough not to be falling apart, but old enough to know I'm not as young as I used to be.

I was referring to a basic generalization of acceptable socialism, like full welfare benefits and non-assimilation of immigrants, or outrageous taxes, etc.  What's the avg?  %40-60?  Not sure....

As far as Palin's accent, I think she sounds fine.  I grew up mostly in the South, but moved around alot as a Navy brat.  I was also stationed in GA.  So I'm used to differing accents.  Most people noticed I'm "not from around here."  Some place me from northern Ohio.  Ok, been THRU there, but...

Grating or not, I'm impressed with her overall.  I think she's inspiring.  I'm told Obama is also inspiring, but I don't feel it.  To each their own.  I also like WHAT she says, and don't always agree with her (I noted that in an earlier post).  She easier to listen to than Pelosi or H. Clinton.

[Hugeboobfan]

Quote:
Dearc said:
As far as European free health care, I'm lacking solid intel.  I guess like anyone else, I want to choose my own hospital and research treatment options.  I'm young enough not to be falling apart, but old enough to know I'm not as young as I used to be.

The only way you can possibly choose your own hospital and treatment options is if you are filthy stinking rich.  Otherwise you are stuck with the whims of whatever insurance company you pay premiums to.  In-network, out-of-network crap, "experimental" treatments which may not be covered, a maze of paperwork to work through before approval, etc.

Sure, you can choose which insurance plans you want to buy into, but you'll never know what health issue might come up, and thus can't know which plan/company would be the best fit for your specific future health issue.

[TheZookie007]

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:
So you are conflating Operation PUSH with Obama? Please.

No, I'm trying to tell you how things work in Chicago.

Ah, I see:

Quote:
"You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way! And that's how you get Capone."

-- The Untouchables

[mofoapoo]

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
mofoapoo said:Obama, on the other hand, was excepted into a high end law school, but before he did that, he took his Columbia degree AND MOVED TO SOUTHERN CHICAGO.  He was able to get into harvard, but instead of doing that right away, he set aside 3 years of his life to helping people.  Come on.  People are just being a bit too cynical these days.  You gotta take what you can get.

Nobody, other than a priest sent there by the church, moves to the south side of Chicago to help people unless there's money involved.

And you know this how?

Fresh out of college I got a job working for a Chicago company.  Shortly after I started, 1 of the local "community outreach groups" asked for a grant "to help with education".  All they did was threaten to call us racists if we didn't give them the grant.  The book Shakedown: Exposing the Real Jesse Jackson gives an idea of how these things works.

How is that linked to Obama at all?  You can see all the lists of organizations Obama worked for, and only the first one was a large one.

[pedonbio]

Quote:
mastert said:


Imagine, if you will, a 21 year old girl.

Does she have big tits? Is she into older guys? What's her name?

[pedonbio]

Quote:
Dearc said:

IMHO, "elitist" would mean someone whose neglected the lower/middle classes.  

That pretty much includes all Republican presidents except Eisenhower.

[MasterDragonfly]

Quote:
mastert said:
I was driving home the other day when I thought of the perfect analogy for this election

Imagine, if you will, a 21 year old girl. On her left is a smart, good looking man, with a stable job a good personality. On her right is her current boyfriend. This boyfriend is emotionally abusive but he's a better looking man than the guy on the left. The guy on her left just asked out the 21 year old girl. She's smitten with him. She goes to the man on the right and tells him she's dumping him. The guy on the right tells her that no one will love her as much as him.

So she agrees to just 1 date with the guy on the left. He picked her up in his car and brings her flowers. She sits there on the date and is exactly what she needs at this point in her life. She learned the guy on the left has a wild friend but is also a down to earth guy and had cheated only once in his life. After a good date, she invites him in the house and the clothes come off. However she realizes that he is like one of her ex-boyfriends. He didn't have enough experience in the sack to satisfy her completely.

Later on the next day the guy on the right asks, what happened last night. She tells him exactly what happened. He flips out and tells her nobody will love her as much as he does. Then the clothes come off and he rocks her world. During pillow talk, he tells her everything she wants to hear and her mind clouds over and they go to sleep.

The next day the guy on the right catches her on the phone with the guy on the left. So he goes out with his friend and they both pick up a set of sisters and they both come back to the house. She sees the situation and goes nuts, but the girl he picked up goes home. Later on, she finds lipstick on his collar after telling her nothing happened?

In the end, she knows the guy on the left is exactly what her life needs. But the guy on the right is toxic, but knows how she likes it. So does she go to the left or does she go to the right?

I like it.  A lot.  

/me steals it for conversations with friends

"She's a wishy-washing two-timing bitch.  He's a mysogynistic pretty-boy who will promise anything to keep from getting the boot.  Together they fight crime!"  

Master "had to say it" Dragonfly

[ChrisR1]

Quote:
pedonbio said:

Quote:
mastert said:


Imagine, if you will, a 21 year old girl.

Does she have big tits? Is she into older guys? What's her name?

 

[SwitcherX]

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:
So you are conflating Operation PUSH with Obama? Please.

No, I'm trying to tell you how things work in Chicago.

Ah, I see:

Quote:
"You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way! And that's how you get Capone."

-- The Untouchables

Now you're starting to understand.

[AZWolf]

Do be do be doo....  

[DruulEmpire]

Quote:
AZWolf said:
Do be do be doo....  

This is AZWolf "too way damn cool to stop sounding totally aloof to the silly petty concerns of all you suckers" speak for "Palin has convinced me to vote for Obama."  It takes a lot of decoding, I know.

Welcome to the thread, AZ.

[AZWolf]

Quote:
DruulEmpire said:

Quote:
AZWolf said:
Do be do be doo....  

This is AZWolf "too way damn cool to stop sounding totally aloof to the silly petty concerns of all you suckers" speak for "Palin has convinced me to vote for Obama."  It takes a lot of decoding, I know.

Welcome to the thread, AZ.

Absolutely.  I've written online for our locals and I'm amazed how many want McBush and Palin again.  I'm really quite stunned.

When we begin to take on water, I'll be outta here.  

[MasterDragonfly]

I received an e-mail this week from a friend in KS (from his wife actually) which was in essence spam she sent to about 30 of us.

It was in tabular format, listing McCain and Obama, listing what was supposedly key issues and comparing the positions of the 2 candidates.

After reading through the list, it was clear the spam was meant to sway strongly and favourably towards McCain.

One example was their positions on gun control.  I've always found the discussion of gun control within the context of the USA to be a bit of a straw man.  In my humble observation, gun ownership is so deeply entrenched in the national psyche of the USA, I simply can't imagine any politician every being successful in removing that right.  Ever.  Admittedly, my understanding of the concerns might be naive/misplaced.

I'll see about posting it here, for dissection.  I know it won't be as simple as copy/paste, so I'll have to ponder how to do it and keep it readable.

[MasterDragonfly]

Here's the McSpammy Gram, edited somewhat because I didn't want to fight with tables:

Quote:

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS

JM = John McCain
BO = Barack Obama

Favors new drilling offshore US
JM - Yes
BO - No

Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
JM - Yes
BO - No

Served in the US Armed Forces
JM - Yes
BO - No

Amount of time served in the US Senate
JM - 22 YEARS
BO - 173 DAYS

Will institute a socialized national health care plan
JM - No
BO - Yes

Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
JM - No
BO - Yes

Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
JM - No
BO - Yes

Supports gun ownership rights
JM - Yes
BO - No

Supports homosexual marriage
JM - No
BO - Yes

Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
JM - No
BO - Yes

Voted against making English the official language
JM - No
BO - Yes

Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
JM - No
BO - Yes


CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN

0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.


OBAMA

28% on profit from ALL home sales.  (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)
 

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN

15% (no change)


OBAMA

39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')
 

INCOME TAX


MCCAIN

(no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
 

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

NOTE: Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!
 

INHERITANCE TAX


MCCAIN

- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)


OBAMA

Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

 

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.  New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)  New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!



You can verify the above at the following web sites:


http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/polit...s_on_taxes.html

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/

I'm sure there are real facts among these 'facts', but will defer to others to chip away at this spin.

[3deroticer]

I saw one comment several times on how Obama could be the anti-Christ because of his message of unifying the people and message of peace and hope. The wolf in sheep clothings, as if he will only appear to be a great charisma winning the hearts of the people.

I ask if some people so ingrain in the religious dogma that they would willing to vote for someone that is a wolf both outward and inward in order to not vote for someone who seems to good to be true.

Is it the battered people syndrome?

[DruulEmpire]

MasterD, thanks.

I feel moved to respond because my answering machine has been getting all kinds of robot calls on behalf of McCain and the Republicans and I just got a new one this morning.

Looking over this, some bubbles pop spontaneously -- not the least of which is one of the sources being Fox News.  I also worry a little about a site which is "blog" first and not "washingtonpost" first.

The judges claim is entirely subjective.  Come the Bush-Gore election, the Supreme Court "interpreted" the living hell out of the Constitution.  So that claim is, to put it mildly, irresponsibly phrased.  As for health care -- this is a negative?  And as the brother of a lesbian, I have to ask -- supporting homosexual marriage is another negative?

Virtually no liberal on Earth supports abortion literally THROUGHOUT pregnancy, suggesting that it can be performed right up until the moment of birth.  Really wretched phrasing there.  The Bible was not written by doctors.  A quarry is not a stone house; a sack of flour is not a loaf of bread; a fetus has a long way to go yet to become independent of its host, its mother, and become a human being in its own right.  However, no one is anti-baby.  Rare, deservedly, is the liberal who would even touch a third trimester fetus, and they full well know it.

Iraq troops out immediately?  Obama is too much the politician -- and strategist -- to act this bluntly upon the Pick-Up Sticks game that is Iraq.  They know that too -- or should.

The gun question is a flat lie.  The only issue is registration.  Is registration for your car proof that our society is against your owning it?

And 3rde -- I've been wondering a while if the machinery has been playing to a "Barack Obama = Nicolae Carpathia" equation.  Carpathia is the Antichrist of the Left Behind books.  Carpathia makes no historical sense -- Hitler still remains the best candidate for Antichrist I've ever seen (not that I really even care).  Luckily, the Left Behind books don't even make any sense to most Christians.