Breast Expansion Archive Forum

The Arts => The Plume => Topic started by: Piltheser on February 06, 2017, 06:17:22 AM

Title: Tags system
Post by: Piltheser on February 06, 2017, 06:17:22 AM
So, the new tags system. Two questions.

Is there a way to make it retroactive, meaning we can add the appropriate tags to any chapters made before yesterday?

Can we add an exclusion system, so that, if there are certain fetishist I DON'T want to see even if they're in a chapter with things I want? For example, letting me search muscle growth and breast growth while blocking any trangenderism stories.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 06, 2017, 10:15:05 AM
Thanks to Adama for introducing the tags system.

One question: if you carry out a search on two or more takes, is that "and" or "or"? I think "and" would be the more useful, as for "or" you could just do multiple searches specifying each tag individually.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 07, 2017, 06:17:05 AM
So, the new tags system. Two questions.

Is there a way to make it retroactive, meaning we can add the appropriate tags to any chapters made before yesterday?

Can we add an exclusion system, so that, if there are certain fetishist I DON'T want to see even if they're in a chapter with things I want? For example, letting me search muscle growth and breast growth while blocking any trangenderism stories.

It's already retroactive, in that the older Rcents lists (as of last night) now all contain Edit Tags links, as do most of the monthly Index pages.

An exclusion system is a reasonable idea, I'll have to think about how it could be implemented.  Tricky without using java script.  Might have to do a double-checkbox form like a certain other story site does.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 07, 2017, 06:17:50 AM
One question: if you carry out a search on two or more takes, is that "and" or "or"? I think "and" would be the more useful, as for "or" you could just do multiple searches specifying each tag individually.
I did consider both methods of doing it; it currently does an "or".  I may add a widget on the search page to let you choose.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 07, 2017, 06:37:59 AM
Since the feature was implemented yesterday, 500 episodes have gotten tagged.  Or 0.2 % of the total episode count.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Jiro on February 16, 2017, 09:38:24 AM
If an episode does not have tags, it generally also does not have an "edit tags" at the top.  This makes it very difficult to tag an untagged episode.  I suggest that all episodes should have "edit tags" even if they don't yet have any tags.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 18, 2017, 04:12:54 PM
1) The tag system was only instituted a few weeks ago.  Any episode created after that point will have the Edit Tags link, even if it doesn't have tags.  Any episode created before that point will not have it, except if tags have been added or as stated below.

2) The Addventure Index (http://www.bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/index.html) has several pages that list all the old episodes and provides external Edit Tags links.  So you can add tags to old episodes by browsing the Index pages.

3) I have a process running which is slowly adding Edit Tags links to all the old episodes; it can currently process 960 episodes per day.  It's running slowly so as not to overburden the system.  Since there are over a quarter-million old episodes to get through, it's going to take around 4 1/2 months to get through them all...
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 19, 2017, 09:12:25 PM
I like the splitting up of the tag options into categories, that you've just introduced. It makes navigating the list much easier.

I noticed that we don't have a "horniness" tag. That would be used a lot. It's not really the same as "slut."
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 19, 2017, 09:33:24 PM
Added it now.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 19, 2017, 09:50:20 PM
Thanks. That was quick! I've just added another episode and noticed it was there. I was wondering whether I'd been very unobservant last time or you'd added it in the last ten minutes. Evidently it was the latter.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: The Arrogant Nair on February 19, 2017, 10:42:04 PM
Oh slick, you broke up the Tag Inputs by type.

Although, this could probably be significantly improved. The first category is incredibly overstuffed, and the first two categories are labeled with "Transforms", which is weird.

Might I suggest the following?

- "Growth"
[Containing all tags related to expansion/growth/shrinking]
Ass Expansion
Breast Expansion
Lip Expansion
Nipple Expansion (* Why is this even a thing? It seems over-specific. Like it should either fall under 'BE' or 'Bizarre'...)
Penis Enlargement
Hair Growth
Muscle Growth
Fattening
Inflation
Amazons
Giantess
Shrinking

- "Body Modification"
[Containing all tags related to miscellaneous physical transformation and change]
Age Progression
Age Regression
Bizarre Body Modification
Conjoinment
FTP (* This could also go in the next category)
Hermaphrodites
Lactation
Multibreast
Pregnancy
Pussyboys
Race Change (* This could also go in the next category)
Shemales
Swap (* This one could also go into the next category)
Transgender (MtF)
Transgender (FtM)
Twins
(* Maybe a 'Multilimb' tag?)

- "Transformation"
[Containing all specifically transformation/transformation-themed tags]
Animal TF
Catgirls (* Might I suggest replacing this with something more general? 'Animal Girls'?)
Clothing TF
Anthropomorphic
Inanimate TF
Robots
Statue/Mannequin/Doll (* Might want to split this into Statue/Mannequin and Doll. There is a difference between 'looked at' and 'played with', especially when it comes to sex dolls.)
Taur
Mythological (* Not a perfect fit, but far better.)
Other TF (* Although I'm increasingly uncertain what this means...)


- "Mental Transformation"
[Containing all primarily or exclusively mental changes]
Bimbo Transformation
Horniness (* "Increased Arousal"? with a 'horny' tag?)
Identity Change
Mind Control
Personality Change
Slavery
Sluts
(* I would still like to request a "Status Change" tag. For when the change is primarily about social status. Girl to Maid, Princess, Nurse, etc...)

- "Sexual Activities"
[Containing all 'vanilla' tags]
Bondage
Crossdressing
Exhibition (* Might add "& Nudity)
Female Domination
Female/Female
Masturbation
Male/Female
Male/Male
Non-Consensual

- "Other Themes"
[Literally "Other"]
Global Changes
Vore
Bodily Waste
Invisibility
Time-Stop

- "Episode Types"
[Meta, this was already perfect.]
au - Authors
Fan - Fanfic
list - List Episode
meta - Meta Episode
restart - Restart Episode
root - Storyline Root


Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 20, 2017, 07:02:20 AM
Hm, interesting.  I'll think about this.

It's true that the first section is a bit big and generic, but I didn't want to go overboard with the sections.  For example we could have a separate section just with all tags related to breasts.

Your ideas for a sections are somewhat better, since they're not as specific as I was worried about.  I may just implement your idea here.  You seem to have a general flow of each category being broader than the one above it.

Seems to me there's not much difference between "Body Modification" and "Transformation" -- everything under the latter category could also belong under the former.

It's also a fine line between "animal girls" and "Anthropomorphics" (the difference may just be in their degree of animalness).  I'd get rid of the catgirl category altogether, but it seemed like it'd be popular.

Nipple expansion seems to be a thing for some people...

I've now added a "ml = Multilimb" -- but that's a bad abbreviation...

Status Change feels like "Cliche Change" :)  Status is awfully generic, perhaps something more specific such as Role?
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 20, 2017, 10:24:21 AM
"Seems to me there's not much difference between "Body Modification" and "Transformation" -- everything under the latter category could also belong under the former."

I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: The Arrogant Nair on February 20, 2017, 11:09:25 PM
Well "Growth" was easy enough, we have a ton of specific tags related to various forms and states of expansion, and it's super befitting the website as a whole. But that would still have left a really large "Transformation" group, along with a bunch of odds and ends I didn't know what to do with, like Lactation, Pregnancy, Hermaphrodites, etc. I tried to draw a line between "Physical Modification", where a person is just changed in one way (pregnancy, lactation, change of age, change of gender, twins, etc), and full "Transformation" where the result may be indistinguishable ("You are now a Vase, have fun with that."). Looking at it again I'm pretty sure I failed, although maybe moving around some tags could salvage it?

Possibly move Bizarre, Conjoinment, FTP, Multibreast, Multilimb, and (Race Change?) to Transformation?

Hmm... I'll think more on it.

As for the difference between Animal Girls and Anthropomorphic, I would be inclined to agree with you that there's no real concise line to draw between them, and I was about to write as much... but then I realized that there in fact, is.

When we're talking about "Cat Girls", "Cow Girls" and other similarly 'lightly-touched' animal girls, what exactly are we talking about? As far as I see it, we're usually referring to human girls whom have taken on the various aesthetic and romantic traits of animals. Ears and Tail, occasionally horns, sometimes Eyes, Fangs, Hooves, or Claws. Commonly with romantic traits, such as increased strength, agility, flexibility, or 'mannerisms'.

Even at the extreme end of this, you only get partial fur coverage at-most, and only the extremities of the hands and feet are changed in structural form (if at all). An example of this would be Felicia from Darkstalkers. Animal Traits on a human base.

"Anthropomorphic" however usually goes far harder. Full coverage of fur or scales is a must, and usually it goes significantly farther, altering the facial structure of the skull so that the face is no longer distinctly human. The result is always a more thorough blending that's intended to evoke Anthropomorphism rather than rely on it. A human-like animal, if you will, rather than an animal-like human.

I stumbled upon this train of thought as I realized that the dividing line between these two things could be summarized as the presence of fur/scales and development of the face and torso. So maybe the tags could be "Animal Traits"/"Animal-Like Traits" and "Anthropomorphic", or something along those lines?

"Nipple Expansion", honestly I've hardly ever seen it. Usually it's along with Breast Expansion, or it's so extreme that I'd say it'd probably more fittingly rolled into "Bizarre Body Modification". But then, whatever?

Maybe change "Multilimb" to "Multi" or "mlimb"?

Hm... well, the goal with tags is to be as descriptive as possible while keeping a narrow focus. My intention for "Status Change" is to cover changes in social status as perceived by oneself and/or others. Generic, as opposed to the specificity born from the similar "Identity Change" tag. Identity Change covers Sharon becoming another person, Status Change covers Sharon becoming another version of herself. Cheerleader Sharon, Nerd Sharon, Maid Sharon, Stripper Sharon, Princess Sharon, etc...

"Cliche" often carries a negative connotation, I'm not sure "Role" would properly convey the intention however... "Social Change" might be too broad and nondescript. Maybe combine them somehow? "Social Role Change", or "Social Status Change"? Either way the tag could just be Role?


Edit: Also, I would recommend trying to organize the tags by name rather than abbreviation. Abbreviations can sometimes put things where you wouldn't expect.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 21, 2017, 10:55:35 AM
"As for the difference between Animal Girls and Anthropomorphic, I would be inclined to agree with you that there's no real concise line to draw between them, and I was about to write as much... but then I realized that there in fact, is."

I agree that there's a distinction but, interestingly, my own expectation was that the terms would have the reverse meanings to those that you ascribe to them, with anthropomorphic girls having the less extreme changes and animal girls the more extreme. But I'm not a member of the furry community, and it's quite possible that the terms are used there in accordance with what you say. Regardless of which way round it should be, I don't think that we really need a separate tag for both of them, but that lumping them together under a single "animal girl / anthropomorphic" tag would be adequate and would avoid any risk of misinterpretation. (Of course, strictly speaking "anthropomorphic" is applied to animals having human traits rather than the reverse, but lacking a suitable word it's convenient to use it for the reverse situation here.)
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: The Arrogant Nair on February 21, 2017, 02:09:36 PM
"As for the difference between Animal Girls and Anthropomorphic, I would be inclined to agree with you that there's no real concise line to draw between them, and I was about to write as much... but then I realized that there in fact, is."

I agree that there's a distinction but, interestingly, my own expectation was that the terms would have the reverse meanings to those that you ascribe to them, with anthropomorphic girls having the less extreme changes and animal girls the more extreme. But I'm not a member of the furry community, and it's quite possible that the terms are used there in accordance with what you say. Regardless of which way round it should be, I don't think that we really need a separate tag for both of them, but that lumping them together under a single "animal girl / anthropomorphic" tag would be adequate and would avoid any risk of misinterpretation. (Of course, strictly speaking "anthropomorphic" is applied to animals having human traits rather than the reverse, but lacking a suitable word it's convenient to use it for the reverse situation here.)

I'm only ever really interested in hard Anthropomorphic for the degrading and dehumanizing elements, so I'm pretty sure I'd be tarred and feathered by the Furry community, but I do know enough that I'm entirely positive that "Anthros" and "Anthropomorphic" is the slang that they use. Animal Girls in the vein of Cat Girls, Cow Girls, etc are a very, very common parlance among perverts and connoisseurs of the Chinese Cartoons known as Anime. You might run into some misunderstandings if you tried to use those words in the Furry Community, but almost certainly because... well, it's still fitting. That being said, I'm also certain that they would probably fight you if you tried to say that it's all "The same thing".

I mean, I'm unsheathing my rapier right now, and I'm not even a furry. Which really cuts to the point (Ha!) that I've been lazily circling. The attraction here is to two very separate things. Slopping them together under a single tag would be no more advisable than if you did it to say, Breast Expansion and Fattening. Technically you could just lump them under the category of "Expansion", but you'd probably get your village burned down if you did that.

I'm thinking that "Animal Traits" and "Anthropomorphic" might be the best we're going to do though. I am however prepared to continue torturing this rock for it's blood to try and divine a more effective set of descriptors.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 22, 2017, 05:09:46 AM
Status Change -- I understood what you meant, my point was that "Status" can mean almost anything.  Changing from alive to dead is a Status Change.  Health Status (well/sick), Financial Status (rich/poor/middle-class), Social Status, I imagine there are others...

That furry stuff -- I'm with Nair on the distinction between animal-girls and anthropomorphics... I'd been a fan of the anthropomorphics genre since the early 90s, so that was my standard.  When I first saw examples of the other type -- in a Japanese manga which featured people with animal ears and tails only -- I sneered at it and thought "you call that anthropomorphics?"  I got over myself eventually.  ;)  I know at least one fellow author who is fine with the minimal animalism of catgirls but doesn't like the full-on furriness of anthros.

While it's tempting to change the "fur" tag to "anthro", I hate the idea of changing tags because that means I have to manually edit each episode that uses it (77 episodes so far for the fur tag).
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: The Arrogant Nair on February 22, 2017, 08:57:33 AM
"Status Change" - The real goal is a tag for the broad umbrella of Socio-Economic Change. Financial status, social status, employment status, 'popularity', arguably even familial status and position as well. Basically one's position within society broad or small, potentially including levels of wealth and power. How to sum that up in 2-3 easily understood words is the question...

Furry Stuff - Anthropomorphic really deserves the "Fur" abbreviation in my opinion. It's earned it.

I have noted that "Cloth2" is now a thing... I had actually thought that was what the original tag was supposed to be. It might be a good idea to change one's abbreviation more clearly. Maybe "Dress"? or "Fashion"?

Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 23, 2017, 04:34:59 AM
I have noted that "Cloth2" is now a thing... I had actually thought that was what the original tag was supposed to be. It might be a good idea to change one's abbreviation more clearly. Maybe "Dress"? or "Fashion"?

Hm, I think I prefer "outfit".  For the "change of clothing" tag that is.  Either way, based on what you said I'm going to need to go through all the current "cloth" episodes and correct the tag where the person misunderstood the meaning...
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 23, 2017, 05:04:47 AM
I have noted that "Cloth2" is now a thing... I had actually thought that was what the original tag was supposed to be. It might be a good idea to change one's abbreviation more clearly. Maybe "Dress"? or "Fashion"?

Hm, I think I prefer "outfit".  For the "change of clothing" tag that is.  Either way, based on what you said I'm going to need to go through all the current "cloth" episodes and correct the tag where the person misunderstood the meaning...

... but then I came to my senses and realized I don't want to modify the 140+ episodes that currently have the "cloth" tag.  (Guess I need to write a utility program to do a mass rename of a tag)
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 25, 2017, 07:16:08 PM
I think there might be a bug in the display of the list of episodes that have a particular tag. If I search on "pr", for instance, it shows me the first page of results, and also reveals that the whole list runs to five pages. But if I then click on the "2" to show me the second page, it always says:

"Addventure Server Is Busy
The BEA Addventure's server is experiencing a heavy load at the moment, so CGI programs have been temporarily disabled.
When the load average drops the CGI programs will become available again automatically."

Now if it had done this once, I could believe that - in the minute or so between showing me the first page and my asking for the second page -  the server had become more busy, but it's done it every time in my three or four attempts. Also, if it knows that there are five pages worth of episodes, surely it already must have done the processor-intensive task of compiling the list, and just displaying the second page of that list should be trivial in comparison.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 26, 2017, 05:47:52 AM
Nothing is retained within memory between calls to the search.  Each you click on the next page, it performs the search all over again but filtered by a different page number.

(Unnecessary explanation follows)

There's two steps to doing a search --
1) Identify the episode numbers which contain the tags
2) Look up the episode details (title, author, date) for each of those episodes so their info can be displayed

Step 1 is done every time you do a search or go to a different page.  Step 2 is only done for the 50 episodes that will be displayed on the selected page, to save time.

... I guess one way to solve the problem is to drop the paging idea, and just return the full list of results on a singe page...
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 26, 2017, 05:56:18 AM
... I guess one way to solve the problem is to drop the paging idea, and just return the full list of results on a singe page...

Made a new poll for it.  I like having a polling system.  :)
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 26, 2017, 09:06:20 AM
Thanks.

Voters who haven't experienced the problem that I've had (and I still find it hard to believe that it's just a coincidence that it seems to happen every time) may not realise the rationale for the proposed change. (I haven't actually looked at the poll yet, though, so I don't know what wording you've used for the question.)
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 26, 2017, 05:30:05 PM
Fair point, I've reworded the options and thrown out the first set of votes.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 26, 2017, 09:50:21 PM
It's occurred to me that if the server busyness is measured as an average over the last two minutes say, then the processor effort involved in producing the first page of a multi-page list might cause it to be seen as too busy to allow the second page to be produced. In which case I suppose the solution would be to wait for a few minutes before pressing the "2" link to bring up the second page.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on February 27, 2017, 02:16:22 AM
It's occurred to me that if the server busyness is measured as an average over the last two minutes say, then the processor effort involved in producing the first page of a multi-page list might cause it to be seen as too busy to allow the second page to be produced. In which case I suppose the solution would be to wait for a few minutes before pressing the "2" link to bring up the second page.

Mm, possibly... the way it works is that several Addventure scripts call a common script which checks the Linux machine's Load Average, and if the Load Average is greater than 1 you get the "Busy" page.  I don't know how frequently that figure is updated.  This check is something that the machine's sysadmin requested of me years ago to cut down on server CPU usage.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 28, 2017, 04:37:10 PM
On my most recent attempt, I managed to successivelyview all five pages. I did try to wait a minute or two before moving on from one page to the next, so I don't know if that helped.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on March 02, 2017, 06:52:59 AM
I think I'm going to make paging optional, so you can choose to get all your results at once if you desire to.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on March 02, 2017, 10:42:39 AM
Good idea. Though it might be wise to impose a maximum size on the number of entries that can be viewed unpaged, or people might commit themselves to viewing a couple of thousand entries in one go. (I can imagine the number of episodes tagged with "be" easily reaching a couple of thousand.)
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: The Arrogant Nair on March 02, 2017, 01:28:37 PM
Good idea. Though it might be wise to impose a maximum size on the number of entries that can be viewed unpaged, or people might commit themselves to viewing a couple of thousand entries in one go. (I can imagine the number of episodes tagged with "be" easily reaching a couple of thousand.)

Just a couple? Friend, there are already a couple hundred thousand episodes on the Addventure in total. If I were a gambling man, I'd say that BE would most likely be the single most popular tag, I wouldn't be surprised if as much as 10% of all episodes carried the tag. Even if we never fully backtrack, it's just a matter of time.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on March 02, 2017, 04:30:06 PM
Good idea. Though it might be wise to impose a maximum size on the number of entries that can be viewed unpaged, or people might commit themselves to viewing a couple of thousand entries in one go. (I can imagine the number of episodes tagged with "be" easily reaching a couple of thousand.)

Just a couple? Friend, there are already a couple hundred thousand episodes on the Addventure in total. If I were a gambling man, I'd say that BE would most likely be the single most popular tag, I wouldn't be surprised if as much as 10% of all episodes carried the tag. Even if we never fully backtrack, it's just a matter of time.

I knew mine was a conservative estimate. :) It will be interesting to see how many old episodes are eventually tagged, and how enthusiastically people tag new ones that they've created.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on March 02, 2017, 07:12:20 PM
The tags can be educational. Seeing that "netorare" had recently been added, I looked it up and am now better informed. It's hard to believe that that can be a specific fetish, but there you are. :)
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: The Arrogant Nair on March 03, 2017, 04:55:25 PM
Netorare took me a long time to wrap my head around. Mostly because traditional male-focused humiliation-NTR does nothing but enrage me, and it always bothered me that I didn't understand the allure. It started to make sense when I considered the possibility of female-focused NTR, and it fully clicked after I dug through the internet and discovered some further information being shared by a bunch of weirdo fetishists on the subject.

Essentially, we can divide NTR into two main categories, irrespective of gender. The first category, and the type that you're most likely to encounter on the internet is going to be Humiliation-based NTR, this is your male-protagonist being humiliated by his girl fucking other men, being unsatisfied by him, essentially your run of the mill inadequacies being dwelt upon. Same basic category as any other sexual degradation/humiliation.

The second category is what we would call Compersive-Cuckolding. This is close to the exact opposite, as rather than reveling in one's sexual inadequacies, it's about deriving pleasure from the appeal and virility of one's significant other by-proxy. Instead of being the subject of degradation, you could potentially interpret this as self-aggrandizing in nature, because all of the other lovers are secondary compared to them, THEY are still at the top.

Basically, contrast a boy crying and sniveling as his girlfriend is being fucked around the corner and crying out how much 'better' this lover is compared to her boyfriend... against some absurd Aphrodite type using up men like Kleenex and then fawning over her one 'special' fellow who actually really matters.

Although that being said, despite the difference between the two styles, I would honestly sooner draw a dividing line between GENDERS of the NTR. There's far more cross-contamination between humiliation and compersive than there is between men and women... I mean I have a hard time even imagining the brain pattern that would require.

Anyway... If we're going to have an NTR Tag, I would strongly recommend adding a second one and splitting it evenly between male and female. Possibly in the form of "NTR - Netorare/Cuckolding", and "FemNTR - Female NTR/Cuckquean".
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on March 05, 2017, 03:56:46 AM
Perhaps I should instead let users pick larger page sizes?

I wouldn't have made a tag for NTR either if it weren't for the fact I'd already seen it be popular on the Addventure.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on March 05, 2017, 10:56:24 AM
Yes, letting users choose the page size might work better. Alternatively - and this might be too difficult or processor intensive - show how many episodes match the criteria before asking the user whether they want the results in pages or all in one mega-page.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on March 05, 2017, 07:09:30 PM
I've implemented it this way -- there is now a selection at the bottom of the Search page to turn paging on or off for the query.  If you say you don't want paging, what you actually get is paging, but with a page size of 5000.  That puts a safety cap on large results.

Let's see how that goes...
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on March 05, 2017, 09:48:56 PM
Thanks, Adama. Having just tried a search, I think that "Display results on a single page (limited)" is liable to confuse people, as they are going to wonder in what way it's limited. Maybe say something like "Display results on a single page (limited to a maximum of 5000)"?
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on March 06, 2017, 11:02:57 AM
There may be a problem with the tag system if someone gets as far as adding the episode tags but then for some reason doesn't complete the creation of the episode. I just did a tags search, and the top entry in the results was:

episode 1123032: Creating episode 1123032 (by on //) ag be inf pr myth grope messy mf fan

I suppose it's possible that the episode was still in the middle of being created. When I clicked on the link to the episode, the episode still hadn't been created (or at least its creation hadn't been completed).
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Chuck on March 07, 2017, 04:11:02 AM
No "˘elebrity" tag?
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on March 08, 2017, 07:38:57 AM
The tag list for 1123032 no longer exists, and the episode was never created, so I'd say that either the author canceled it or it timed out automatically after 2.5 hours.  So yeah it's a little inconsistent that it showed up in a search, but that should only happen if you catch it within that 2.5-hour window.

No "˘elebrity" tag?

Hm...
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: saibott on July 11, 2017, 12:55:20 AM
Here is what the edit tag page could look like with a definition/tag use link and some new tags <these signify my thoughts on the tag>:

Editing tags for episode [ep#]
Select the tags that apply to this episode: [link to definitions page]<pop up window/tab?>

Growth
ap - Age Progression <moved here, but understand why it should stay where it is as extreme age body starts shrinking>
grow - General growth <opposite shr>

Shrinking/Reduction <*=Don't know if there's enough instances in he Addventure for tag |*|=Not sure of what the tag should be.>
ar - Age Regression <same as ap>
ass-* - Ass Reduction
bald|*| - Hair Shrinkage/loss
br - Breast Reduction
clit-* - Clit Shrinking
lip-* - Lip Reduction
micro - Tiny Size (can wear doll clothes & smaller) <opposite gts>
midg|*| - Midget/dwarfism (2-4 feet tall) <opposite amaz, both genders>
musc-|*| - Muscle Shrinkage
nip*- - Nipple Shrinkage
ps|*| - Penis Shrinking
shr - Shrinking
slim - Weight Loss

Body Modification
height - Height change (less than shrink/gts) <used for slight change eg 5'6" to 6' or 4'6", grow/shr signifies which direction>

Full Transformation
doll - Doll <animated unlike statue, see movie Toy Soldiers, The Doll of Vengeance chap331 Ranma 1/2 manga, Frame Arms Girl anime, etc>


I'm working on a layout for the definition/tag use page, I'll post once satisfied.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on July 11, 2017, 03:57:19 AM
A link to a definition page is a good idea.

I'll have to think about your other changes.

I think of the "height" tag as meaning a height change "within human norms".  The gts and shr tags would then refer to size changes outside of human norms (such as growing to 20 feet or shrinking to 6 inches).
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: saibott on July 15, 2017, 12:24:06 PM
I think of the "height" tag as meaning a height change "within human norms".  The gts and shr tags would then refer to size changes outside of human norms (such as growing to 20 feet or shrinking to 6 inches).
Generally what I was trying to convey, the second part was more of a "if you see grow gts height shr" you could see that someone shrinks a little another grows giant. The other changes not so much, as indicated by the question of if there were enough instances of such to be tags.

Definition page (was going to work it up in html but had no free time to do so) I see as a 3 column table consisting of: tag - Name - Definition
example: be - Breast Expansion - An increase to breast size.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on July 15, 2017, 02:17:00 PM
Hm, I was figuring that most tags (like be) are self-explanatory and that we'd only need to define the more confusing ones (like real, apparently).

HTML makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: saibott on July 17, 2017, 11:09:30 AM
I was thinking that having all defined for either second language or first timers (those that discover the fetishes from this site, I am part of this group) could then understand the tags.
Quick and dirty html table using 2 fairly easy and known to me fetishes:<table width="1108" border="1">
  <tr>
    <td width="100">Tag</td>
    <td width="445">Full Tag</td>
    <td width="541">Definition</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>be</td>
    <td>Breast Expansion</td>
    <td>An increase to breast size.</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>gts</td>
    <td>Giantism</td>
    <td>A person of at least 10 feet height.</td>
  </tr>
</table> I kept the first column at 100 as I think you were keeping the tags smaller than that, but they can be changed, I don't quite know how to make them em stretch to the screen, or if that's even possible.
Another idea/question I have is whether the system can handle css? I was thinking if so that the list of tags could be a css database and any change made to the tags there would be globally reflected, such as renaming a tag: be to bgro for example (not actually meaning we should rename be). I understand it is probably far too late in roll out for such a system to be implemented.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on July 18, 2017, 04:44:55 AM
The ability to rename tags is something I've wanted to do since the beginning, but haven't gotten round to implementing it.  The feature would need to search through all the existing .tag files and replace any occurrence of the old tag with the new one.  Maybe someday.

I don't actually specify the width of the current tag columns or the table; I just specify that there are three columns and let the browser figure out the formatting.  Keepin' it simple and primitive.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on July 21, 2017, 03:46:07 PM
For the last few days, every time I've tried to do a tag search I've received the response that the server was too busy, even when it's been at what I'd expect to be a quiet time of day (allowing for the time difference between the UK, where I am, and the US). I wondered if anything could be broken?
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Nameless Soul on September 16, 2017, 11:27:43 PM
So I saw people were complaining about the quality of some of the writing.com episodes Dogmann has been archiving here, and it got me thinking. Tags are as good a way as avoiding something you're not into as finding what you are. So would there be cause for a tag for this kind of episode - 'chaff' or 'junk' or something if we're feeling mean, maybe 'short' if we're being kinder? That way when they came up as search results people would know they probably weren't worth the time to check out.

The issues would be that no-one would tag their own episodes like this (indeed, such episodes are rarely tagged by their creators at all) so it wouldn't be much use on the recents list, plus if used over-aggressively it could create a passive-aggressive or unwelcoming atmosphere and may put off authors who perhaps start like this but may one day develop to more substantial episodes. Thoughts?



The other thing I wanted to raise is that when I see links to the UBEA posted on /d people complain about the site's impenetrability. I've been here years, and tags are a good step towards making the site more navigable for newcomers, but being given results as single episodes is only of limited use in a site revolving around long-running and ever-building storylines.

Since storylines - by which I mean these (http://bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/tags/root1572.html (http://bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/tags/root1572.html)) pages, sorry if it's the wrong term - display tag totals, would it be possible, I wonder, to make a storyline tag search? Results would most usefully be listed in order of frequency of the searched for tag(s) (If multiple, the frequency of both tags added together is probably the simplest way to do it). I'm not sure whether gross (raw number of episodes with that tag in the storyline) or proportion (episodes with that tag divided by episodes in the storyline) would be a better measure for ordering.

If feasible, such a search would do the most good somewhere prominent like the landing page, or on a dedicated 'search' page off the landing page (which could also contain a link to the episode-search) rather than the recents page where veterans know to go straight off.

It could also be done with authors since they have tag-totals too, though storylines is perhaps better for newbies navigating the site.

Finally, while not tag-related I do have another idea to help newcomers navigate. Say they come via a search or a link and read something they like. Would it be technically possible to put a 'Read this story from the beginning' link next to the back to parent link?

For example clicking it in a 'Mitch & the Maigic T-Shirts' ep would take you to 1199488. Clicking the link on that ep would take them to 1199480 ('Mitch's Impending BE Addventure: Yard Sale'). Then on through 870387 ('Mitch & Blue: To Live a Dream'), 791911 ('Meet Blue', the start of the 'Blue the Blueberry' storyline), and finally to 1572, the ultimate start of Mitch's Blueberry. This may seem long-winded when some would argue after jumping back to the first Magic T-shirt ep, the next most-relevant jump-back is the start of Mitch's Blueberry all together, but providing as many jumping-on points as possible strikes me as the most friendly option.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on September 18, 2017, 04:12:20 AM
Hm, well I don't want to create tags that would essentially be a rating system for episodes.  Rating systems easily lead to feuds between authors and raters.  Being able to label episodes as "junk" would certainly do that.

Now, being able to tag episodes as being "short" or "long" might make sense, I'll think about that one.  But those are subjective measurements too.



I agree that doing some sort of linking with storylines would make things more accessible.

The first hurdle to overcome is that the storyline tags are not part of the Addventure code.  They're part of the Index only, and the Addventure code doesn't have access to them.  To do any sort of linking in the Addventure, I'd have to work out a way for the storyline tags to get into the Addventure database.

I have thought about ways of doing that before, though that was mainly so we could put storyline links on the Recent Episodes lists.  Putting links inside the episodes themselves would be awkward because storylines frequently change as new branchings become evident.  Each time a storyline tag was split into new chˇld storylines, all the episodes in the new chˇld would have to be updated with a new storyline link.



For a storyline search -- what I think you're saying is to let the user search for a content tag, like we have now, but have it search the storyline pages rather than the individual episodes?

Sounds interesting, but again this would require adding (and updating) the storyline tags into the Addventure database, and associating content tags with the storyline tags...

On the other hand, alternatively such a search could be associated with the Index rather than the Addventure -- though then I would have to create a new Index database (there isn't one now) and use it to link content tags to authors and storylines... that might work better (though the search would have access both databases...)



I'll think about it.  Thanks for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Nameless Soul on September 21, 2017, 09:42:15 PM
Thanks Adama. I made the suggestions knowing they might not be wise/feasible, but thought it wouldn't hurt to get them out there.



Storyline links on the recent page does still sound useful, and I guess I was focusing too much on getting the older stuff more accessible that I didn't think about what a pain the shifting storylines/roots would be on newer episodes.



Regarding the storyline search, yes, what you describe is what I'd imagined, with the search turning up links to this kind of page http://bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/tags/root102.html (http://bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/tags/root102.html). In my limited knowledge of how the technical side of the UBEA works the fact that tag counts appear on these pages now led me to wonder if it would be possible to search these, as well as episodes. Since every longer storyline will probably contain most tags at least once though, (as in Mitch's Blueberry here http://bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/tags/root1572.html (http://bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/tags/root1572.html)), to be any use there'd have to be a way to rank results by desired tag frequency, not just date or number (in this case root) as is done with the episodes.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on September 23, 2017, 05:11:45 AM
Storyline links on the recent page does still sound useful, and I guess I was focusing too much on getting the older stuff more accessible that I didn't think about what a pain the shifting storylines/roots would be on newer episodes.

It's not just newer episodes that shift storylines.  Any time there's a particularly huge storyline I look for ways to break it down into a series of smaller sub-storylines, and whenever that happens all the episodes in that sub-storyline get reassigned to it.  Happens with old episodes too.

the fact that tag counts appear on these pages now led me to wonder if it would be possible to search these, as well as episodes.

The main technical issue there is that the tags listed on the storyline pages come from a database on my hard drive, like all the Index pages do.  Unlike the tags listed in the episodes and Recents lists, which come from a database on the server.  So the first issue (which I have considered for a while) is to create a modified version of the Index database onto the server.

And yeah, you've got a point about the search needing a ranking system.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Anonymous51 on February 20, 2018, 07:27:05 PM
Is anyone else noticing that someone keeps putting unnecessary tags on Episode 2?  I occasionally change the tags back to "ubea & root", but eventually some other person (maybe the same person) goes on there and changes the tags to a bunch that have nothing to do with the episode.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: JH_ on February 20, 2018, 08:03:54 PM
Yes, they've been doing it ever since the tag system was introduced, and it's very annoying. They seem to think that if any descendant episode - no matter how deep in the tree - features a fetish, then the ancestor ought to be tagged with it. Of course for episode 2 every episode is a descendant, so they add every possible tag. Of course that makes the tagging totally useless for finding episodes that one is interested in. Personally, I don't think that even fetishes that feature in the options of an episode but that aren't mentioned in the body should be tagged.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Anonymous51 on February 20, 2018, 08:45:46 PM
Personally, I don't think that even fetishes that feature in the options of an episode but that aren't mentioned in the body should be tagged.

I agree with that.  I might take the title of the episode into consideration when tagging, but I never do the same with the options.  Those are just directions the story can go in next; they're not part of the episode itself.
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Adama on May 30, 2018, 05:03:52 AM
Since storylines - by which I mean these (http://bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/tags/root1572.html (http://bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/trees/tags/root1572.html)) pages, sorry if it's the wrong term - display tag totals, would it be possible, I wonder, to make a storyline tag search? Results would most usefully be listed in order of frequency of the searched for tag(s) (If multiple, the frequency of both tags added together is probably the simplest way to do it). I'm not sure whether gross (raw number of episodes with that tag in the storyline) or proportion (episodes with that tag divided by episodes in the storyline) would be a better measure for ordering.

If feasible, such a search would do the most good somewhere prominent like the landing page, or on a dedicated 'search' page off the landing page (which could also contain a link to the episode-search) rather than the recents page where veterans know to go straight off.

It could also be done with authors since they have tag-totals too, though storylines is perhaps better for newbies navigating the site.

The Storyline and Author tags searches have finally been implemented, links on the Recent Episodes page (http://old.bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/docs/recents/).
Title: Re: Tags system
Post by: Nameless Soul on July 08, 2018, 01:16:36 PM

The Storyline and Author tags searches have finally been implemented, links on the Recent Episodes page (http://old.bearchive.com/~addventure/game1/docs/recents/).

Thanks Adama, I noticed a while ago but haven't logged in for a while either. This is great, and should be really useful for new people coming here for a specific thing, or authors looking for a particular kind of storyline to add on to.