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pedonbio
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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2008, 08:55:01 PM » |
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DruulEmpire said:
I take it even more directly than that, Q. These days, just about everyone's fortunes are directly tied one way or another to this -- by retirement plans, by mutual funds, by whatever you've got going with your bank.
Don't I know it! I was going to retire a few years ago, back when Amazon was selling for $200 and MS was about the same. I was actually retired for about a year... |
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Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.
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pedonbio
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« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2008, 08:56:36 PM » |
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Q_BE said:
Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less.™
That'll get our oil-based economy jump-started and enable us to remain prosperous while the private sector discovers the long-term solution.
Q-"How about Bugs Crapping Crude?"-BE
You're kidding, right? |
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Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.
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Q_BE
O Cup
Posts: 5883
Dreaming of a Scarlett Spring
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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2008, 09:26:15 PM » |
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pedonbio said:
Quote:
Q_BE said:
Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less.™
That'll get our oil-based economy jump-started and enable us to remain prosperous while the private sector discovers the long-term solution.
Q-"How about Bugs Crapping Crude?"-BE
You're kidding, right?
Not a bit. 
Q-"Renewable Petrol: Bug Farms on the March"-BE |
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Hiram
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« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2008, 04:21:43 AM » |
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Q_BE said:
It's topics like this that get me incensed, because there is this feeling that the Dow Jones Industrial Average is only the "rich" people's money,
Not at all. I can see my pension ebbing away in front of my eyes.
I think part of the problem with the recent downturn is the Fractional Reserve banking system we use, where money is created to produce debt. It is inevitable at some point once the money supply has reached a critical mass that things will implode.
Oil is in great supply, so consequently the price is higher. This is capitalism, get used to it.
As far as the dow getting to 11111, I see this as a buying opportunity - its not a failure, but rather a correction. As stock falls it gets easier for someone like me, an average Joe to buy it. But I'm a saver not a consumer, and I saw this coming. I deleveraged so I have the cash, I'll be buying stock at some point once I feel we've reached the bottom.
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AZWolf
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« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2008, 06:42:35 AM » |
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My income has been doing this for a while. I'm so glad that George Bush's boys investing in the DOW finally see our country is doing the same....So sorry all his rich boy tax breaks didn't involve you.  |
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Dawn, n. The time of day when men of reason go to bed.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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DruulEmpire
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« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2008, 06:55:02 AM » |
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Hiram officially has the right idea about why I embarked on this thread -- although the opportunity for discussion is not lost on me.  |
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SwitcherX
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« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2008, 03:42:58 AM » |
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Bonkers said:
Like they say the stock market is nothing but a gambling casino and the rich own the house and make the rules.
Casinos have a edge against you, the markets are level. The rich don't own them. Countless rich people have become not rich in the markets. |
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Switcher X
A.K.A. Tina Fey Eichmann
"Thank you herr professor Tina Fey Eichmann, nuclear brain surgeon and moustache jockey."
-- Mammeister
"SwitcherX, you were always Mammeister's favorite...you bastard."
-- Notty
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Hiram
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« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2008, 02:46:13 PM » |
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Looks like today could be the day...
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pedonbio
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« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2008, 03:30:57 PM » |
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SwitcherX said:
Quote:
Bonkers said:
Like they say the stock market is nothing but a gambling casino and the rich own the house and make the rules.
Casinos have a edge against you, the markets are level. The rich don't own them. Countless rich people have become not rich in the markets.
"The only sure way to make a small fortune in the market is to start with a large one."--Louis Ruckeyser |
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Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.
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Bonkers
inactive
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Posts: 874
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« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2008, 05:41:59 PM » |
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SwitcherX said:
Quote:
Bonkers said:
Like they say the stock market is nothing but a gambling casino and the rich own the house and make the rules.
Yes, How true you are Switcher... But they have the edge, which they can make and break a stock
Bonkers |
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Bonkers
inactive
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« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2008, 05:51:16 PM » |
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With the Oil still at 140+ a barrel. I just check on General Motors to see it was at $11.24, their worst in 33 years and Ford at $4.6 and just forget about all the airline carriers they all under five dollars a stock. Something has a break and I hopes it's not the world economy.  Bonkers  |
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mastert
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« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2008, 09:08:23 PM » |
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I saw somebody sane on CNBC. I don't know what he did, all I know is he's a well respected stock market billionaire (not Warren Buffett). What he said made a lot of sense. He said that the amount of oil on the market has not changed the last 2 years, so all these "shortages" that has the market going crazy are unfounded. Since real estate was through the roof 3 years ago, now oil is doing the same thing he beleived there's a bubble and once all this crazyness in the real estate market and banks calms down, the bubble should burst on oil too. It won't go down to $30 a barrel, but it won't be $150.
On a side note, I think it's good oil is high. People aren't as quick to waste it on gas guzzling SUVs (to quell some soccer mom's fear of driving) and it's fueling green technology which the USA is falling behind on as well.
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SwitcherX
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« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2008, 11:16:35 PM » |
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Bonkers said:
Quote:
SwitcherX said:
Quote:
Bonkers said:
Like they say the stock market is nothing but a gambling casino and the rich own the house and make the rules.
Yes, How true you are Switcher... But they have the edge, which they can make and break a stock
Bonkers
I changed careers about a year and a half ago and became a commodities trader. The only poeple that have an adge are people with insider information. That's possible in stocks. In commodities it isn't since there is no inside information. |
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Switcher X
A.K.A. Tina Fey Eichmann
"Thank you herr professor Tina Fey Eichmann, nuclear brain surgeon and moustache jockey."
-- Mammeister
"SwitcherX, you were always Mammeister's favorite...you bastard."
-- Notty
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SwitcherX
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« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2008, 11:20:46 PM » |
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mastert said:
He said that the amount of oil on the market has not changed the last 2 years, so all these "shortages" that has the market going crazy are unfounded.
Actually there's so much oil in storage, if you sailed(?) an oil tanker full of oil from the middle east to the USA, you wouldn't be able to offload it. All of the storage facilities are full. The problem are the refineries. A lot of them have been shut down lately. Some oil traders are saying that it was to jack up the price of gas.
Also a lot of oil traders, and traders of other stuff, are waiting to see if Bush bombs Iran. |
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Switcher X
A.K.A. Tina Fey Eichmann
"Thank you herr professor Tina Fey Eichmann, nuclear brain surgeon and moustache jockey."
-- Mammeister
"SwitcherX, you were always Mammeister's favorite...you bastard."
-- Notty
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pedonbio
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« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2008, 03:45:05 AM » |
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SwitcherX said:
Also a lot of oil traders, and traders of other stuff, are waiting to see if Bush bombs Iran.
Let me tell you a secret, Switcher: Either Bush can leave office next January leaving his political party in existence with a remote hope of again regaining power, or he can bomb Iran. He can't do both. At this point if he asked for a congressional resolution against Iran, he wouldn't get a majority of Republicans.
There are a handful of true believers, like Q_BE around, but Bush is considerably less popular than Old Tony was a year ago. |
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Hiram
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« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2008, 05:07:07 PM » |
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SwitcherX said:Actually there's so much oil in storage
I've read that, but don't traders examine US inventory data. Quote:
Bloomberg said July 2: -- Crude oil futures rose to a record above $143 a barrel in New York as the dollar weakened and a U.S. government report showed an unexpected decline in inventories.
Refineries are part of the problem, but one of the main things is instability in the world - that is where the oil futures come in. People are hedging the supply being short in the future.
Add the dollar exchange rate, and increased demand - and that's how we got here.
Edit: 11,215 today - getting very close. I'm feeling even more bearish now. |
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DruulEmpire
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« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2008, 05:35:41 PM » |
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So, we have hit "Magna Carta plus 10,000." I don't think it's much different from the intra-day low of a couple days ago -- but it is only a hundred points shy now. If it gets any lower, I may have to decide at what point I will have to concede to mastert's suggestion. Gotta say, tho, I haven't much use for all this comic talk of 111 or even 1111. For this market to sink from 14164 to 1111 (that's just four ones, not five), it would have to be WORSE than the Depression -- and I would dare to suggest we've learned a thing or two since then, and have FDIC insurance in place besides. It may not really be as much insurance as there's supposed to be, but at least there is some. So I consider the first 2000 points pretty much rock solid. For the market to hit 111, civilization would have to be all the way down to sitting around watching Mad Max get the guzzle-ine past the Humongous ... |
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Hiram
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« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2008, 06:00:51 PM » |
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Dow 1929 - 2008  |
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Hiram
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« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2008, 05:03:59 PM » |
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Dow hit 11127 @ 2:07 EDT
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DruulEmpire
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« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2008, 05:18:58 PM » |
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Thanks, Hiram -- I noticed it dip below 11200 earlier today, but I never caught how low. By the by, it occurs to me to thank you for caring about something that isn't even a native concern of yours. Across the pond you guys have the "Footsie," right? But for today I'll just say WHEW! and stick to my guns. |
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pedonbio
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« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2008, 05:32:14 PM » |
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Hey, I'm just along for the ride
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Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.
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Hiram
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« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2008, 05:56:41 PM » |
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DruulEmpire said:Across the pond you guys have the "Footsie," right?
Yeah we do - but I have indirect investments in US companies for sure, it matters to me how the Dow's fairs.
Not only that, when the US catches a cold, we all get one! |
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pedonbio
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« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2008, 06:51:59 PM » |
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Hiram said:
Quote:
DruulEmpire said:Across the pond you guys have the "Footsie," right?
Yeah we do - but I have indirect investments in US companies for sure, it matters to me how the Dow's fairs.
Not only that, when the US catches a cold, we all get one!
Well, any serious investor in the U.S. has his foot in the water. Best investment I ever made was Burmah Oil back in the 1970s. Had to sell most of it for a divorce, to buy a house for a woman I didn't like. Great fuck, though.
Now I tinker with the Irish. Elan Pharma has treated me well. |
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Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.
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Bonkers
inactive
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Posts: 874
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« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2008, 07:15:42 PM » |
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Hiram said:
Quote:
DruulEmpire said:Across the pond you guys have the "Footsie," right?
Yeah we do - but I have indirect investments in US companies for sure, it matters to me how the Dow's fairs.
Not only that, when the US catches a cold, we all get one!
By the way, Hiram.... How is the British stockmarket holding up?
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Hiram
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« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2008, 03:58:15 AM » |
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Bonkers said:
By the way, Hiram.... How is the British stockmarket holding up?
Bonkers
Actually not too bad. But I suspect many of the companies quoted on the FTSE are not British anyway, but merely traded here.
Not only that – commodity companies are strongly featured.
I'm genuinely surprised due to the poor state of the UK economy how well the FTSE is doing. If I'm going to make an investments, I wouldn't put my money into anything here, my preference is to the Dow.
Edit: FTSE, I spoke too soon. eek! |
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Hiram
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« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2008, 04:00:02 AM » |
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pedonbio said:
Now I tinker with the Irish.
The Irish economy is in real trouble. Honest! |
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pedonbio
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« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2008, 05:09:51 AM » |
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Hiram said:
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pedonbio said:
Now I tinker with the Irish.
The Irish economy is in real trouble. Honest!
As contrasted with the stunning success of the U.S. economy? |
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AZWolf
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« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2008, 10:31:57 AM » |
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I love it since it has no bearing on my financial life, though the rich (Fox News) report on it like a lifeline.
Sink, sink, sink!
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Dawn, n. The time of day when men of reason go to bed.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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DruulEmpire
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« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2008, 05:12:55 PM » |
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I'm putting myself out on a limb starting this thread in the first place, so here's an even wilder thought -- what if my idea of falling just short of 11111 (actually I was preferring 11114) already happened yesterday, during that intra-day low of 11127, and that will be the low of 2008? This is not to say that the market will (reliably, consistently) rocket back up -- but I wonder if we have at last defined this "bottom" that everyone (besides AZWolf) is looking for. Personally I'm getting out my stopwatch, to see how long it takes for this rather optimistic idea to get shot down ... |
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Hiram
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« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2008, 05:28:56 PM » |
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pedonbio said:As contrasted with the stunning success of the U.S. economy?
OK, fair point.
The US does have a manufacturing base to get itself out of trouble - not really so in Eire. |
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Hiram
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« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2008, 05:30:57 PM » |
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AZWolf said:
I love it since it has no bearing on my financial life
You don't have a pension then? |
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ElmerFudd
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« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2008, 05:59:55 PM » |
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Hiram said:
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AZWolf said:
I love it since it has no bearing on my financial life
You don't have a pension then?
Pensions are approaching extinction in the U.S. The only people who are in pension plans are some government workers and politicians.
Most who have company retirement plans are in 401K's which are often heavily invested in stock-based mutual funds, however. |
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Bonkers
inactive
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« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2008, 06:51:24 PM » |
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ElmerFudd said:
Quote:
Hiram said:
Quote:
AZWolf said:
I love it since it has no bearing on my financial life
You don't have a pension then?
Pensions are approaching extinction in the U.S. The only people who are in pension plans are some government workers and politicians.
Most who have company retirement plans are in 401K's which are often heavily invested in stock-based mutual funds, however.
Not really... all the unions still base on the pension. I hardly heard any going into the 401K's. There was mention of a few guys in my Local asking the delegates about doing it. But it was shot down and never mention again.
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Bonkers
inactive
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« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2008, 06:55:34 PM » |
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DruulEmpire said:
I'm putting myself out on a limb starting this thread in the first place, so here's an even wilder thought -- what if my idea of falling just short of 11111 (actually I was preferring 11114) already happened yesterday, during that intra-day low of 11127, and that will be the low of 2008?
This is not to say that the market will (reliably, consistently) rocket back up -- but I wonder if we have at last defined this "bottom" that everyone (besides AZWolf) is looking for.
Personally I'm getting out my stopwatch, to see how long it takes for this rather optimistic idea to get shot down ...
I remmember about five or ten years ago the Dow crashed into the 10,0000. the time of Enron and it's cooked buddies
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