Next Stop Dow 11111

[pedonbio]

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:
In 2008, the NYSE lost 6.9 TRILLION dollars in value. It can't get much worse than that. I have total confidence that within less than four years the Dow will be back in the 9000s. The long view is best view to take in the stock market, and these things always go in cycles. We've seen worse, and we always bounce back.

THAT'S what I call "free market economics!

But, Zookie, remember that so far THIS "cycle" is the worst since 1931.

[pedonbio]

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:
Dubya & Co. dropped the ball completely and totally; there would not have been a 9/11 if he had simply read his PDBs (specifically the one entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack the U.S.") instead of running off to Crawford in August 2001.

It's not like he's the only person that gets to know what's in them.  A lot of people read the PDBs.

As bad as he is/was, he gets blamed for some stuff that got started(sometimes long) before he got in office.

I think you're rewiting hostory, Switcher. Bush's father put Osama on the "Watch List". Clinton tried to kill him, and came close twice. The one time Bush agreed to meet with Clinton about national security during the transition, all parties present agree that Clinton said words to the effect, "Osama is working to fuck us over hard". And everyone agrees that Bush or one of his national security appointees lowered the threat of Osama and al-Queda in the first month of the Bush Administration.

[TheZookie007]

...and sure, lots of people may have read the PDBs (doubtful) but only one of them was supposed to have both read and ACTED UPON that PDB...and his name was George Walker Bush. Even if he had merely told his underlings (e.g. the National Security Adviser, Condi Rice), "Yo, y'all handle this, I'm off to clear brush in Crawford", that would have been better than doing what he did do, which was, essentially, nothing...and that lead to the most shameful seven minutes in history.

[Hiram]

I agree with this guy... fiat money is all bollocks.

 60 year low

[AZWolf]

Maybe not so bad, but if it was, I'm good with it because I am not among the richest of the rich.  

[Hiram]

The downturn is effecting the rich.

Quote:
German billionaire Adolf Merckle has committed suicide after his business empire ran into trouble in the global economic slowdown.

In a statement his family said he had been "broken" by the financial crisis, and had taken his own life.

Mr Merckle ran up losses of about 400m euros (£363m;$535m) last year due to wrong-way bets on Volkswagen shares.

He was ranked as the world's 94th richest person in 2008, and his family controls a number of German companies.

The 74-year-old's body was found on Monday near railway tracks in southern Germany. Officials said there was no evidence that anyone else was to blame.

[pedonbio]

If that guy killed himself because he lost half a billion Euros of his own wealth in the downturn, what should we do with Bernie Madoff, who "lost" fifty billion dollars of other people's money?

[gOOber]

Make him a financial consultant. He's as qualified as the other Bozos.

[pedonbio]

Quote:
gOOber said:
Make him a financial consultant. He's as qualified as the other Bozos.

Good point, gOOber!

[Hiram]

More bad news...

Payroll-processor ADP (ADP, Fortune 500) said Wednesday morning that 693,000 private-sector jobs were lost in December.

[DruulEmpire]

This is basically an inaugural weekend -- Monday is King Day, followed directly by Inauguration Day -- so in honor of our new President I'm going to take my floor of 7227, which has been working out reasonably well for the past few months, and raise it.  Not much, but in honor of 2009 I'm making it 7290, since 729 is nine cubed.

I chose 7227 in the first place imagining that Bush might yet hit a new low, and his last low was somewhere around 7286 several years back.  That will probably be it for him, though, so I'm chucking that in favor of something slightly higher.

Mind you, I think this is going to be a rough year.  So many posts here are named "mastert's 9999?" -- and when I wrote that, I was worried about sinking DOWN to that.  Nowadays, we would hope to RECLAIM it -- but I don't seriously expect anything like that before this year's Halloween at the earliest.  I suspect 2009 will be by turns tough and tedious and seemingly aimless -- and that's just on the domestic side, not counting on what surprises may get sprung on us from overseas.

But I'm feeling a little better these days.  Not much, just 63 points' worth.  Therefore, the boost.

[Q_BE]

So, the Dow plunged 300+ points on Inauguration Day. That's the worst in presidential inaugural history.

What do you Obama backers think of those who say that this recession is Obama's recession, necessarily because Obama's left-leaning policies will not advance the capitalistic society of this country?

Q-"Of course, with Obama in office, everything is hunky-dory, even if it's not"-BE

[pedonbio]

Is that your way of saying, "Crap, he's been in office 34 hours and hasn't done anything for me yet"?

[Q_BE]

Quote:
pedonbio said:
Is that your way of saying, "Crap, he's been in office 34 hours and hasn't done anything for me yet"?

No, it's my way of saying that the markets were as bad as they have been because they were anticipating an Obama victory. The actual inauguration only affirmed the bad news, and to top it off, there wasn't that great economic news coming out about this year (except IBM, apparently).

Q-"Crap, he's been in office 34 hours longer than I wanted him to be"-BE

[pedonbio]

I just want to say something about JPMorganChase. I am not a fan of banks or bigness, and JPM may turn into a pile of poop at any moment, but I think not. There are some folks who do things right, and they should get credit for that.

First, JPM didn't dive headfirst into subprime loans when the other big banks were.

Second, they had tried a couple of acquisitions and backed off. I know that JPM had started the takeover waltz with the recently deceased WAMU about three years ago; JPM staff concluded that WAMU wasn't worth the asking price, management backed them up, and the deal was off. So when WAMU was diving for the pavement, JPM could move in and pick up the pieces because they knew what they were getting.

Considering how stupid the other other big banks have been, I just wanted to say something about a big bank that doesn't seem so stupid.

I think it would be better if they broke up, though.

[AZWolf]

Fair enough.  If we used the same criteria (did like a nut, idiot, maniac, poorly, not so bad, okay, decently, fairly well, well, rock on) when establishing a bank bailout like the banks did when deciding whether or not to help a mortgage owner, we might be doing at least a bit better.

[SwitcherX]

I got this forwarded in email today:


To All My Valued Employees,


There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this
company, and more specifically, your job. As you know,
The economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However,
the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does
threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country.

However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help
you decide what is in your best interests.

First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers
against employees, you have to understand that for every business
owner there is a back story. This back story is often neglected and
overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes
outside. You've seen my big home at last years Christmas party. I'm sure; all
these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.

However, what you don't see is the back story.

I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300
Square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment was
converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a
company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.

My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I
spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla
with a defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I
stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In
fact, I was married to my business -- hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.

Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and
made a modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy
cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of
hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through
the discount store extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was
birthed in the 70's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of
luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my
life into a business with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be
able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.

So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally
check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off"
button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and
you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the
freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no
rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is
attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs ch1ld. You, of course,
only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house, the Mercedes, the
vacations... you never realize the back story and the sacrifices I've made.

Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all
the right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the
people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel
entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life
for.

Yes, business ownership has it's benefits but the price I've
paid is steep and not without wounds.

Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing
you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let
me tell you why:

I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay
enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and
use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment taxes. Taxes
on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these taxes and then guess
what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and
regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my
time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a check to the US Treasury for $288,000 for
quarterly taxes.

You know what my "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada.
Zilch.



The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me,
the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000
people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at
home pregnant with her fourth ch1ld waiting for her next welfare check?
Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.

The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your paycheck
you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who
wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why
your job is in jeopardy.

Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the
economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government
mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of
depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have spent it,
hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth.
My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of
promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.

When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't
defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to
life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of
America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it.
Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington believe the poor of America are the
essential drivers of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further
from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.

So where am I going with all this?

It's quite simple.

If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction
will be swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can
then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your
ch1ld's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.



Then, I will close this company down, move to another country,
and retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes
the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to
provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.

So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the
economy; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept
through this country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its
landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach,
retired, and with no employees to worry about....

Signed, Your boss

[pedonbio]

Promises, promises, SwitcherX.

[SwitcherX]

He's not my boss.  I don't know who originally sent it to who.

[BarnacleBill]

 

Quote:
Or, the single mother sitting at
home pregnant with her fourth ch1ld waiting for her next welfare check?
 

THAT'S NOT WHERE YOUR FUCKING TAXES ARE GOING, ASSHOLE!!

Your taxes are going to bailout BANKS!!!!  Banks who pay their CEOs tens of millions of dollars a year!!

This just pissed me off to no end.

I agree with everything the boss here is saying, but then he blames welfare moms?  WTF!!!!!!

Its the big businesses that are sucking off the federal teat that are to blame!! Blame Corporate Welfare!!!!

idiot.

[pedonbio]

Quote:
BarnacleBill said:


Your taxes are going to bailout BANKS!!!!  Banks who pay their CEOs tens of millions of dollars a year!!

This just pissed me off to no end.

I dunno, Bill. I guess I'm just too old and too burned out to get pissed off. About a year ago I heard a number of talking heads discussing whether America would ever have universal health care. The consensus was that it would probably never happen because it might cost as much as $600 billion to set up the national program.

But when the bank caught the sniffles, $700 billion in a month was okay?

[DruulEmpire]

The Dow has historically been bad on just about any Inauguration Day.  Could be as simple as the market dreading the instability of a shift of policy.

Anyway -- I'm back here in time to see my floor tested.

[pedonbio]

Quote:
DruulEmpire said:
The Dow has historically been bad on just about any Inauguration Day.  Could be as simple as the market dreading the instability of a shift of policy.

Anyway -- I'm back here in time to see my floor tested.

I said 6300, and I'm stickin' to it!

[DruulEmpire]

Say, don't be shy -- back on December 1st, on page 26 of this thread, you thought it might wind up between 3000 and 4000.  So maybe you're feeling relatively optimistic.

[pedonbio]

Yep, that's what I said--3,000 to 4,000, and I'm stickin' to it!  

[BarnacleBill]

 

Quote:
 I dunno, Bill. I guess I'm just too old and too burned out to get pissed off. About a year ago I heard a number of talking heads discussing whether America would ever have universal health care. The consensus was that it would probably never happen because it might cost as much as $600 billion to set up the national program.

But when the bank caught the sniffles, $700 billion in a month was okay?

 

EXACTLY

EXACTLY

EXACTLY

So true I had to say it thrice.

I wish you were President, PB.

Obama should USE THAT EXACT ARGUMENT to push universal healthcare through!!!!  This is the time!  This is the moment!  Maybe there is a God and He in fact set the whole economic crash up, just so Obama could use this exact angle to push through universal healthcare!!!    

P.S.  If the market goes below 7000 for more than a week, we are FUCKED, and I seriously want to join some group that will attack and burn and savage the fucking rich fuck bastards who fucked this country.  I will gladly burn, slash, cut, kill and maim.  Heads will roll.  Heads will roll!!!!

[SwitcherX]

The only good thing at work today:

Santelli's Chicago Tea Party

[DruulEmpire]

While I happen to like Santelli, and I take him as earnest and perhaps undeserving of calls for him to switch to decaf, I still think details need to be studied.

Anyhow -- my floor got gouged during the intra-day Friday, and as I write this I'm still waiting for the closing bell to shake out, but it's obvious (and I think Barnacle Bill has already noted this elsewhere) it's a wreck.

How did I ever decide to start this thread at such an explosive moment in history?

Anyway, I can't even think of another floor right now -- I'm intrigued by the number 7082, but solely as a signpost on the way to the Twilight Zone, since that's exactly half the all-time high.

And ... yep ... 7114 for the close.

[BarnacleBill]

 

and it only got worse

[gOOber]

6763

 

[notty]

What happens if it goes to zero?

[gOOber]

I hope you grow your own food.

[notty]

I have a tomato plant.

[gOOber]

 

[notty]

Do you grow your own food, gOOb? Maybe I'll just crash with you.