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3deroticer

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3390 on: February 08, 2011, 04:29:14 AM »
I ask people if the recession now worse than it was during the Reagan years, and so far people say "no!"

Bad as things seem to be, most people old enough remember the Reagan's years as being worse.
"Yesterday, Reince Priebus called this whole story a 'nothing burger,'" he said. "Well these emails have turned it into an all-you-can-prosecute buffet."

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SamV

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3391 on: February 08, 2011, 05:52:26 PM »
Listening to former Sec. of Defense Rumsfield's interview on ABC News seems to show that Ronnie Reagan wasn't the only out of office Repub with a failing memory. ::) :o

Well, the way he **108**-**108**'s all the other reports about events during his time in the Bush Administration seems to show it's either a defective memory, or he's pulling some kind of Pontius Pilate>:(

But then Donnie has a book to sell, and you know he won't ever admit anything in writing. Someone might get the idea to bring a lawsuit against him if he did.  :-\ 
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gOOber

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3392 on: February 11, 2011, 11:37:19 AM »
Trump and/or Palin may be on the 2012 Republican ticket. Please let it be this Trump. :-*
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SamV

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3393 on: February 16, 2011, 03:08:20 PM »
One of the many new office holders whom the American electorate put in charge this past November.

AdmittedLEE, ya gotta love how they tell it like it is. ::) 

UnfortunateLEE though as soon as they open their mouths it proves their ignorance. :(

The Miami Herald: Gov. Rick Scott alienates some black lawmakers at luncheon

Sam "and which politicians I pick to lambaste isn't based on their skin color either; but by their philosophy" V :-\
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 03:31:09 PM by SamV »
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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3394 on: February 16, 2011, 03:54:49 PM »
"On the health care law: “It’s Obamacare to me. That’s what it is,” Scott said. When lawmakers asked him to call it by its formal title, the Affordable Health Care Act, Scott said: “You know, when I’m on Fox, they never call it that.” Scott was on Fox News again Tuesday, his third appearance in 17 days, and he slammed Congress for not repealing the law. The lunch’s lightest moment came when Scott jokingly called it the “Non-Affordable Health Care Act,” and lawmakers applauded."

"Scott is a conservative Republican who dislikes government, and most black lawmakers are liberal Democrats who believe in the power of government to help people, especially the poor."

What an idiot.
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pedonbio

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3395 on: February 16, 2011, 04:05:51 PM »
Floridians seem to prefer governors with fraud convictions.
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PregNut

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3396 on: February 16, 2011, 05:18:28 PM »
If the government is so good at helping the poor, why are there still poor people?
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DruulEmpire

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3397 on: February 16, 2011, 05:49:00 PM »
On the chance that you're not making a bad joke ...

You might as well ask "If the government is so good at medical coverage, why are there still sick people?"  Or "If the government is so good at backing education, why are there still dumb people?"  Or "If the government is so great at defense, why do we have to keep spending on it?"

But all right, that's the whole "the tide goes in and out" argument.  Our society "accepts," for example, a minimum of five percent unemployment at pretty much any historical moment.  Are you for full employment?  No?  So let's take this as a specific ill.

It's not like the poor are one very definite set of people, like the marielitos that Castro dumped on Florida.  A lot of people are born poor who the government never get to, and if you break down how and why that is it's probably a function of budget and politics.  Look, when you ask "Why are there so many poor people?" are you truly wondering "Wouldn't it be great if we could do whatever it takes to eliminate poverty?"  Or are you actually saying "It's clearly a fool's errand anyway, so fuck it"?

Then there are people who find themselves poor.  I guess the point here is that the government is worthless and only the private sector can truly save them.  But here's the problem -- yeah, the private sector does so much of the hiring, but it also CREATES so many poor.  And when the private sector drops that ball, as it does all too often -- because remember, I started the Dow watch thread -- then who will pick up the slack?  Sure, a church here or a philanthropist there will help, but it's still the public sector that's left with the heavy lifting.

It's like all other problems: its only chance of getting solved definitively is if and when our whole society truly commits to that one goal.  It took us nearly two centuries including a bloody war to shake off slavery and Jim Crow, for crying out loud.  But since your question sounds far more about cynicism about government than concern for the poor, I'm guessing that such mobilization is still a long time coming.

The government is supposed to reflect votes, on the federal, state and local level.  If you've never cast a vote with the express hope of fighting poverty, then you are very much your own answer to your own question.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 05:51:37 PM by DruulEmpire »

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pedonbio

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3398 on: February 16, 2011, 06:16:51 PM »
Thank you for writing that, Druul.

I just have a couple of things to add. One is a change in public thought: Thirty years ago people would have looked at you funny if you had said that 5% unemployment was "normal", and that was before Reagan had started jiggering the numbers to make himself look good, so the percentage was higher than it would be now. 2% unemployment used to be referred to as "frictional"--That many people would be unemployed and looking for work in a healthy, full-employment economy. Until 1981 anything over 4% unemployment would set off alarms, including extended unemployment insurance coverage.

That was before the "free market" nonsense started. If a society wants to destroy the value of labor, it needs to keep unemployment high, and since 1980 (If Jimmy Carter goes to Hell, it will be for starting deregulation) the United States has accepteds ever-higher levels of unemployment as "normal".

The other is the flip side of upward mobility. I suspect that most of us know someone who made $150K two or three years ago. They thought they were doing well. Then the company went bust, and it turned out that they couldn't walk into a similar job. They're almost poor now, and soon will be.

There is an even larger aspect to that. A century ago there was no question who was the richest man on the planet: John D. Rockefeller. Fortune Magazine started its list of the 400 richest people about thirty years ago. I don't think any Rockefeller has ever appeared on that list. 
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.

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3deroticer

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3399 on: February 16, 2011, 07:26:34 PM »
Obama mention several times about the unemployment that we have will be the new normal.

John Boehner talks about slashing govt jobs over 650,000 which will effect 300,000 more jobs and his response is "So be it!"

That has got to hurt the GOP base! as much as the Democrat were disillusioned when we voted Obama to end the war and we are still over there.
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SamV

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3400 on: February 17, 2011, 11:41:41 AM »
Though I don't live in Florida, I can't help but watch the train wreck that appears to be happening with the change of leadership in the Governor's mansion in that state.  :o

My concern as a resident in the Land of "PA" (not "P-A") is will the citizens here face such delusional thinking from the man currently occupying our Governor Mansion. The one saving grace is that while Corbett is a long-time conservative Repub, he at least appears not to have bought in to all the Tea Party stupidity (yet). :-\

Quote from: SunSentinal.com
Governor Scott's opposition to high-speed train makes little sense

Sun Sentinel News (opinion)

Once again, it's doubtful that Gov. Rick Scott has made a decision that is in the state's best interest.

Last week, it was his unwise call for dumping a prescription drug database. And, on Wednesday, the governor dropped another bomb — announcing Florida would reject $2.4 billion from the federal government for a high-speed rail line linking Orlando and Tampa.

The proposed high-speed train has plenty of support. The Florida Chamber of Commerce and Associated Industries of Florida — the Sunshine State's premier business groups — both wanted it, knowing it could lead to the building of another economically simulative-if-not-transformative high-speed line planned for Orlando to Miami.

Moreover, state transportation officials had fashioned agreements where the train's private operator — not the state — would pay any cost overruns and the cost of operating and maintaining the trains for 30 years. The project would have generated an estimated 23,000 construction jobs and about another 1,000 permanent jobs needed to operate and maintain it.

Yet Gov. Scott seemed oblivious to much of this in announcing his ill-advised decision. The governor suggested Florida taxpayers could somehow end up paying cost overruns — and subsidize it because of poor ridership.

But didn't the governor know that Floridians almost certainly wouldn't have had to pay the $280 million needed to complete the project — money needed in addition to the federal government's $2.4 billion contribution — because a number of companies vying to operate the line indicated they'd assume that cost? That fact had conservative members of Congress, like John Mica, R-Winter Park, chairman of the House transportation committee, falling in line to support the Orlando-to-Tampa line.

Maybe our governor was influenced by the governors of New Jersey, Ohio and Wisconsin, who rejected federal funding for rail projects before Gov. Scott, and earned rave reviews from tea party enthusiasts for their efforts. No doubt they're clapping today for Gov. Scott in Eustis, Fla., where last week he unveiled his program-hacking, $66 billion budget to hundreds of tea party minions.

But Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker noted his state would have had to pay too much to operate and maintain its rail line, whereas Florida would have paid nothing for its line. And New Jersey Gov. Chris Christy noted that unlike what his state was facing, Florida's deal wasn't burdensome to taxpayers.

Gov. Scott needs to do what would benefit all of Florida, not what might play well before tea party enthusiasts. Because, once again, it looks like the governor has made a decision without having a full array of facts to support it.

BOTTOM LINE: Killing high-speed train another poor choice by Gov. Scott.

Story posted 2011.02.17 at 03:00 AM EST
(Highlighting in article, my own)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 11:46:35 AM by SamV »
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MrsPacman1

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3401 on: February 19, 2011, 12:13:28 PM »
Speaking of train wrecks -

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the mess Scott Walker has caused in WI? Personally, I'm deeply saddened by the obvious attacks on the unions. Well, with the exception of the ones who donated to Walker's campaign. Those haven't been part of this "bill". There is absolutely no monetary gain to be had by ending the collective bargaining rights of these hard working, decent public workers.

On the other hand, I'm wondering where all these Scott Walker haters were on election day? I didn't vote for him, but I'm surprised by how quickly people forget the consequences of their political actions, or lack thereof.

I'm looking forward to the mess that happens this afternoon when the Tea(tard) Party shows up. The protesters have already chanted, "FOX LIES" over and over every time there's been a live broadcast from that nitwork. I'm highly amused by this.  ;D I'm even more amused by the massive winter storm heading our way in the next 12 - 15 hours. I hope they all get stuck here.

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SamV

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3402 on: February 19, 2011, 01:11:30 PM »
Mrs. P  - I did happen to post some passing comments in the OT Egypt thread about the large protests in Wisconsin's capital and in other state capitals.

My personal view is I think Gov. Weller and his political supporters, along with similar officials in other states, are being disingenuous in their attempt to use their states' various financial problems to craft bills and push them though in to law that are more to promote their political ideology than to solve the problems at hand.

One only has to look at the recent bill Gov. Weller and the Repub controlled legislature passed to lower corporate tax rates to the tune of I think around 150 million dollars, then the governor turns around and demands changes in retirement and health care benefits for the public sector workers to their detriment so to balance the state budget. And then he has the audacity to stand before the media and proclaim that everyone must "share the pain" to keep the state financially solvent. ::) :o

I might not be the smartest person in the world, but to this out-of-state observer corporations in WI and their owners, seemed to be getting off with a windfall instead of any of that pain Gov. Weller spoke about. In fact, the only pain I see for a lot of people in WI, and similar states, is the pain in the ass their newly elected officials have turned out to be.

But then as I've said before, "the American electorate always gets the government they want and deserve". Seeing how far too many voters on the Democratic side of things in this last election sat on the sidelines rather than show up at the polls perhaps it will be a lesson learned. Unfortunately it comes at a very painful cost not only to them, but to many others also. :-\
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 01:14:49 PM by SamV »
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Q_BE

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3403 on: February 19, 2011, 03:11:06 PM »
Let me make a Wisconsin prediction: it ranked 40th out of 50 states on the "best corporate tax climates" over the last 5 years (2006-present). (http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/22661.html – Check the rank closest to the left side of the PDF document)

If the Republicans are able to implement their policies, watch the budget holes vanish in favor of budget surpluses, and check back in 5 years for their updated "tax climate" rank. Betcha it'll be in the top 15. ;)

Q-"You betcha"-BE ;D

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DruulEmpire

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #3404 on: February 19, 2011, 04:39:01 PM »
Seeing that the Republicans -- specifically Walker -- aren't going to win, what's your counterprediction for February 19, 2016?