*

andrat2000

  • ZZZ Cup
  • 2305
  • undisputed record holder largest augmented breasts
    • not living in North Korea
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6270 on: September 15, 2017, 06:28:45 AM »
Based on what I read about the Trump supporters that are now very angry with him. These people are dumb. Just plain dumb. They are unfit for the real world. Unfortunately I think it is a medical imbalance causing it that needs a good medical treatment.

*

Hiram

  • Z Cup
  • 4801
  • I like big tits
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6271 on: September 15, 2017, 07:08:28 AM »
As much as I liked the drachma and as much as I like the pound sterling, I didn't see the point in Europe's two biggest economies (France and Germany) having to use the Euro, while Great Britain got to keep using the pound sterling like a spoiled brat or something :)
Some countries joined the Euro, some did not. It was a choice the UK took at the time.

But it is more complicated than that. To get some historical prospective you'd need to need to look up The UK crashing out of the ERM (European Exchange Rate Mechanism). When you join the Euro you do so at a certain rate, and it is quite important that currency rate is right.  Ours never was.

It is also worth nothing Germany went into the Euro at a beneficial rate - personally it is my view why Germany dominates the EU financially.

When Greece had their recent financial problems, they couldn't devalue as they were locked into the Euro. Much as I respect how the Euro is supposed to work, it has been adopted by such differing economies, it was always going to struggle.

See attached chart to see how the Euro isn't working for all countries.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 09:54:37 AM by Hiram »
-- I love HUGE boobs --

*

Hiram

  • Z Cup
  • 4801
  • I like big tits
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6272 on: September 15, 2017, 07:14:28 AM »
One president instead of 6. Very Good. Why should I pay for 6? And why should we pay for 6
I agree - just that you're never going to be able to vote for him. 

You talk about Trump a lot - but at least he is elected, unlike the EU president.

But I guess we come from different approaches - I believe in freedom not control.
-- I love HUGE boobs --

*

Hiram

  • Z Cup
  • 4801
  • I like big tits
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6273 on: September 15, 2017, 07:18:54 AM »
I am glad they are soon out. Unfortunately this way made a good example for countries like Poland and Hungary. That's why it is so important to get rid of the veto possibilities.
Easier than building tanks and invading Poland I guess. :)
-- I love HUGE boobs --

*

andrat2000

  • ZZZ Cup
  • 2305
  • undisputed record holder largest augmented breasts
    • not living in North Korea
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6274 on: September 15, 2017, 07:29:49 AM »
One president instead of 6. Very Good. Why should I pay for 6? And why should we pay for 6
I agree - just that you're never going to be able to vote for him. 

You talk about Trump a lot - but at least he is elected, unlike the EU president.

But I guess we come from different approaches - I believe in freedom not control.

I do also favour freedom. Unfortunately if you don't restrict the freedom of the strong these always restrict the freedom of the weak. The weaker always have less freedom if there is no instance that controls. A little restriction for the strong is a lot more freedom for the weak.

*

andrat2000

  • ZZZ Cup
  • 2305
  • undisputed record holder largest augmented breasts
    • not living in North Korea
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6275 on: September 15, 2017, 07:34:53 AM »
I am glad they are soon out. Unfortunately this way made a good example for countries like Poland and Hungary. That's why it is so important to get rid of the veto possibilities.
Easier than building tanks and invading Poland I guess. :)

It is Poland and Hungary governments (not same as their citizens) that want to limit themselves in democracy / in freedom, not Germany.

*

Hiram

  • Z Cup
  • 4801
  • I like big tits
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6276 on: September 15, 2017, 07:41:15 AM »
I am glad they are soon out. Unfortunately this way made a good example for countries like Poland and Hungary. That's why it is so important to get rid of the veto possibilities.
Easier than building tanks and invading Poland I guess. :)

It is Poland and Hungary governments (not same as their citizens) that want to limit themselves in democracy / in freedom, not Germany.
Are you saying that those two governments aren't accountable to the people. Are they not elected governments. 
-- I love HUGE boobs --

*

Hiram

  • Z Cup
  • 4801
  • I like big tits
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6277 on: September 15, 2017, 07:44:22 AM »
I do also favour freedom. Unfortunately if you don't restrict the freedom of the strong these always restrict the freedom of the weak.
That seems fundamentally flawed.  Who decides?
-- I love HUGE boobs --

*

andrat2000

  • ZZZ Cup
  • 2305
  • undisputed record holder largest augmented breasts
    • not living in North Korea
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6278 on: September 15, 2017, 12:16:09 PM »
I do also favour freedom. Unfortunately if you don't restrict the freedom of the strong these always restrict the freedom of the weak.
That seems fundamentally flawed.  Who decides?
Very strange question.
That's quit simple it is called democracy. Part of it is to protect the weak.

That's what a parliament is made for! Legislation.
That's why courts exists! Jurisdiction.
That's why government and police exists! Executive.

*

andrat2000

  • ZZZ Cup
  • 2305
  • undisputed record holder largest augmented breasts
    • not living in North Korea
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6279 on: September 15, 2017, 12:25:47 PM »
I am glad they are soon out. Unfortunately this way made a good example for countries like Poland and Hungary. That's why it is so important to get rid of the veto possibilities.
Easier than building tanks and invading Poland I guess. :)

It is Poland and Hungary governments (not same as their citizens) that want to limit themselves in democracy / in freedom, not Germany.
Are you saying that those two governments aren't accountable to the people. Are they not elected governments.

Did you see how manipulative Poland and Hungary government and the populistic right wing parties work? Do you think weakening courts and democracy, removing the free press and opressing it with the argument the government is elected is OK?

Well then you also believe what Turkey and its president does is the right way to go.

By the way Hitler was also elected (with a lot of manipulation of the people in the previous years and finally manipulating the German president to make him believe he is the right man to fix the problems Germany had in legislation and executive). And originally the majority of the German citizens didn't want to happen, what has happened. They just didn't care or got manipulated into it with a lot of lies. The rest of the people really wanted it to happen.

*

Hiram

  • Z Cup
  • 4801
  • I like big tits
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6280 on: September 15, 2017, 03:19:08 PM »
I do also favour freedom. Unfortunately if you don't restrict the freedom of the strong these always restrict the freedom of the weak.
That seems fundamentally flawed.  Who decides?
Very strange question.
That's quit simple it is called democracy. Part of it is to protect the weak.
But that isn't how it works in the EU.  I take your point about the Europeans Courts - but would you not concede that a lot of EU legislations comes from the unelected commission?  The new finance minister proposed by Junker will almost certainly be an appointed position. You will have no say on this matter.

So, who will decide this rich/poor criteria, will it be an unelected bureaucrat? That would be my fear anyway.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 03:30:18 PM by Hiram »
-- I love HUGE boobs --

*

Hiram

  • Z Cup
  • 4801
  • I like big tits
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6281 on: September 15, 2017, 03:26:03 PM »
Did you see how manipulative Poland and Hungary government and the populistic right wing parties work? Do you think weakening courts and democracy, removing the free press and opressing it with the argument the government is elected is OK?

Well then you also believe what Turkey and its president does is the right way to go.

By the way Hitler was also elected (with a lot of manipulation of the people in the previous years and finally manipulating the German president to make him believe he is the right man to fix the problems Germany had in legislation and executive). And originally the majority of the German citizens didn't want to happen, what has happened. They just didn't care or got manipulated into it with a lot of lies. The rest of the people really wanted it to happen.
You make some good points here.

I'd forgotten Hitler had been elected. I'm not sure what the answer is - we either trust our governments or we don't. It is tricky, as we elect people to make decisions on our behalf - and to some extent we have to let them do that.

I'd like to think - if the populous of Poland and Hungary don't like the government - that can vote them out. If not; it isn't democracy.
-- I love HUGE boobs --

*

Robin_K

  • A Cup
  • 2077
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6282 on: September 15, 2017, 05:39:46 PM »
To clarify any comparisons, we in the U.S. do not live in a democracy. We live in a democratic republic. This does not guarantee protection of the weak, but it gives us means of ameriorating simple majority rule. (As does the civil service. Bureaucracy can be a very good thing.)

*

andrat2000

  • ZZZ Cup
  • 2305
  • undisputed record holder largest augmented breasts
    • not living in North Korea
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6283 on: September 16, 2017, 12:54:37 PM »
To clarify any comparisons, we in the U.S. do not live in a democracy. We live in a democratic republic. This does not guarantee protection of the weak, but it gives us means of ameriorating simple majority rule. (As does the civil service. Bureaucracy can be a very good thing.)

It is still democratic. And any democracy has room for improvements. And what some people actually think is very democratic: referendum after referendum after referendum - for each and everything. It won't work. The results of referendum are erratic. To a point it can be damaging beyond repair. Take the Brexit.

Extremist and populistic parties like referendum when they are not in responsibility or they are sure they can manipulate the people and /or the result. Brexit is an example. It didn't fit at all in what UK really needed for continuity. It now blocks the government, completely. Usually what extremist parties need to grow. For the moment how the Brexit (doesn't) work it is bad for UKIP. But what if the May government really fails with the soft Brexit, the hard Brexit will come and it will damage British economy beyond believe. Then the time for UKIP and other extremists is coming.

Or referendum in Hungary. The government made the question in their favour. They still lost the poll, but then they found a lot of arguements why they won and still do the changes to the constitution damaging fundamentals of the Hungarian courts.

Ah right in spring 2015 he did an inofficial referendum. He was sending out 8 Millon questionaires to Hungarian citizen with suggestive question and if you agree make your cross. He used this result as argument for things he wanted to change.

Why does Germany have no referendum on federal level after WW II anymore? It is as simple as that that the extremists after WW I blocked the parliament the executive with these kind of referendum throwing them into discrepancy of what is actually needed. This referedum was one of the reasons Adolf Hitler had success.

Democracy by the grass root is not always good.

I think there are already other ideas out there to strengthen democracy. Or to get more indepent from elections.
One of it to get rid of representatives that want to be re-elected and that loose themselves in dependencies to parties or similar situations.
The suggested solution is that a number of people are drawn by random and not elected. Then they have to orgenize themselves in parliament or executive. This prevents extremistic parties from meddling with elections invluencing voters. etc. ...
I heared somewher in Ireland this procedure is or was tested. Can't exactly remember when and where I read it.

*

andrat2000

  • ZZZ Cup
  • 2305
  • undisputed record holder largest augmented breasts
    • not living in North Korea
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6284 on: September 16, 2017, 02:19:34 PM »
I do also favour freedom. Unfortunately if you don't restrict the freedom of the strong these always restrict the freedom of the weak.
That seems fundamentally flawed.  Who decides?
Very strange question.
That's quit simple it is called democracy. Part of it is to protect the weak.
But that isn't how it works in the EU.  I take your point about the Europeans Courts - but would you not concede that a lot of EU legislations comes from the unelected commission?  The new finance minister proposed by Junker will almost certainly be an appointed position. You will have no say on this matter.

So, who will decide this rich/poor criteria, will it be an unelected bureaucrat? That would be my fear anyway.

Legislation is by far not that onesided how you describe it or you think it is. You can look it up. I only have a German source for the legislation process in the EU.