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Hiram

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6720 on: April 03, 2018, 04:45:14 AM »
Trumpelstilsken had success with his propaganda manipulating the nationalistic thinking people on the cable networks. The same success Adolf Hitler had with the upcoming radio,
Didn't the economy in Germany in the 1930's improve when Hitler was Chancellor of Germany. Which is also what it is doing for Trump. So some similarities I think.

I still have this gut feeling Trump will get re-elected - mainly due to the economy and his China stance (does down well with the Blue Collar)
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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6721 on: April 03, 2018, 07:20:18 AM »
Trumpelstilsken had success with his propaganda manipulating the nationalistic thinking people on the cable networks. The same success Adolf Hitler had with the upcoming radio,
Didn't the economy in Germany in the 1930's improve when Hitler was Chancellor of Germany. Which is also what it is doing for Trump. So some similarities I think.

I still have this gut feeling Trump will get re-elected - mainly due to the economy and his China stance (does down well with the Blue Collar)

When Chancellor? No.
 
Hitler immediately got dictator when his party was strong enough

The economy was "improving" because of rearmament and infrastructure projects by building up depts, but over time people earned less and less money for their work. The whole economy was dysfunctional because of this. The bankruptcy was hidden because the WW II was started.

More similarities?
I hope not.
Anti-social behaviours lack consideration for the well-being of others. Any types of conduct that violates basic rights (human rights is one of them) of another person. It can show as covert or overt hostility.

Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6722 on: April 04, 2018, 03:41:56 AM »
Wasn't sure if I should have published this in the Funny Politics thread.

Everyone knows the "Kinder Egg" or "Kinder Surprise Egg"?
The European/German version is still forbidden by US laws. You can't buy it in the US.

But you can buy an AR-15 in the US!

That's pretty sick in my opinion.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 04:32:47 AM by andrat2000 »
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Hiram

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6723 on: April 04, 2018, 08:14:11 AM »
But you can buy an AR-15 in the US! That's pretty sick in my opinion.
So true.   
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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6724 on: April 08, 2018, 11:12:25 PM »
Now it is official. Over  2/3 of Hungarian voters are enemies of democracy and they are Nazi's. I hope the European Union finally finds a way to throw them out of the Union and immediately stops any money transfer to Hungary.
Anti-social behaviours lack consideration for the well-being of others. Any types of conduct that violates basic rights (human rights is one of them) of another person. It can show as covert or overt hostility.

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Hiram

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6725 on: April 09, 2018, 03:10:56 AM »
Now it is official. Over  2/3 of Hungarian voters are enemies of democracy and they are Nazi's.
That doesn't quite make sense though. If it was a free an fair election - then that is democracy. Just because you don't like the result?
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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6726 on: April 09, 2018, 04:29:18 AM »
Now it is official. Over  2/3 of Hungarian voters are enemies of democracy and they are Nazi's.
That doesn't quite make sense though. If it was a free an fair election - then that is democracy. Just because you don't like the result?

Do I need to find the result good when a new wannabe Adolf Hitler gets elected when they provingly already the last 8 years reduced the demorcracy Hungary? No, certainly not. Do we need to wait that they deport refugees into camps to concentrate them? Certainly not! And the election was not democratic. Better inform yourself!
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Hiram

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6727 on: April 09, 2018, 09:42:05 AM »
And the election was not democratic.
Do you have any evidence of that?

It may not have been the result you wanted - but unless you have any evidence to the contrary - it was a fair and democratic vote.

You talk of democracy - yet you seem to despise it.
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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6728 on: April 09, 2018, 09:24:47 PM »
And the election was not democratic.
Do you have any evidence of that?

It may not have been the result you wanted - but unless you have any evidence to the contrary - it was a fair and democratic vote.

You talk of democracy - yet you seem to despise it.

What we can learn from history:
Quote

The 1932 German presidential elections were held on 13 March (first round) and 10 April (second round run-off). They were the second and final direct elections to the office of President of the Reich (Reichspräsident), Germany's head of state under the Weimar Republic. The incumbent President, Paul von Hindenburg, first elected in 1925, was re-elected to a second seven-year term of office. His major opponent in the election was Adolf Hitler of the Nazi Party (NSDAP).

Under the Weimar system, the presidency was a powerful office. Hindenburg, who deeply distrusted and personally detested Hitler, had been motivated to run for a second term primarily by a desire to stop Hitler from winning the presidency. Nevertheless, following his re-election, Hindenburg failed to prevent the Nazis from assuming power. Two successive federal elections left the Nazis as the largest party in the Reichstag and anti-democratic parties in control of a majority of its seats. Under this political climate, Hindenburg reluctantly appointed Hitler as Chancellor of Germany in January 1933.


Free and fair, democratic elections...and we all know the end result of them. History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

Speaking of elections:

Quote

“Today the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York executed a series of search warrants and seized the privileged communications between my client, Michael Cohen, and his clients,” said Stephen Ryan, Cohen’s attorney. “I have been advised by federal prosecutors that the New York action is, in part, a referral by the Office of Special Counsel, Robert Mueller.”

Two officials briefed on the raids confirmed the action to ABC News. The U.S. Attorney’s office and the FBI declined to comment.

The purpose of the raid remains unclear, but a source close to Cohen said the FBI seized documents related to the Stormy Daniels matter, as well personal, financial and banking records dating back to 2013. They also seized his electronic devices, the source said...

Cohen has come under scrutiny after acknowledging that he made a $130,000 payment to adult-film actress Stormy Daniels as she was shopping her story of an alleged affair with Trump in 2006 to major media outlets shortly before the 2016 election. Daniels filed a lawsuit against Trump in March arguing that the so-called hush agreement, the existence of which was first revealed by The Wall Street Journal, is invalid because Trump never signed it.

Cohen has said that he paid the $130,000 out of his own pocket and that neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign were involved in the transaction. Trump recently denied any knowledge of the payment and referred inquiries to Cohen, but Daniels's attorney Michael Avenatti continues to insist that Trump “absolutely knew” about the agreement.

"We very much look forward to testing the truthfulness of Mr. Trump's feigned lack of knowledge concerning the $130k payment as stated on Air Force One," Avenatti wrote on Twitter following Trump’s comments. "As history teaches us, it is one thing to deceive the press and quite another to do so under oath."

« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 09:29:18 PM by TheZookie007 »
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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6729 on: April 10, 2018, 12:18:48 AM »
And the election was not democratic.
Do you have any evidence of that?

It may not have been the result you wanted - but unless you have any evidence to the contrary - it was a fair and democratic vote.

You talk of democracy - yet you seem to despise it.
Maybe you better comment on the: "Better inform yourself". What was the outcome?

Is a democratic election for you when the government controls all media corporation by law? Nothing really critical about the government can be broadcaster anymore under the fear of being oppressed or shut down ? NGO's opposing the government got shut down or getting oppressed?
Voters get one sided media informations and mails? Is this a democratic election? Not only the process of voting is the democratic election. Everything before and after, too. Did you know that FIDESZ while being elected with 48,5% now has 134 out if 199? This was changed in 2011 under Organ?
How DARE YOU to tell me this is democratic and I would despise democracy?

Gosh! How far has democracy come if people can't distinguish anymore what a real democratic election is and what is the doing of totalitarians.

And I am the one who despise democracy? While others help totalitarians and Nazi's by saying shit about democracy.
It is a big misunderstanding. It is NOT democracy to help totalitarians, dictators and Nazi's into power. It is the exact opposite of democracy, the grabbing of power, like you see in that German example from 85 years ago.

Why is this so hard to understand for some people they got indoctrinated with wron democratic standards, by totalitarians, dictators and Nazi's. The new German Nazi's die exactly the same. Telling their version of democracy, that they are the only one protecting it and the only one protecting free speech even the language causes hate and violence, but hailing the strong totalitarian Russian dictator Putin and are the first to forbid their critiques every word and wanting to send members of our current democratic elected government to jail or deport them.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 12:51:33 AM by andrat2000 »
Anti-social behaviours lack consideration for the well-being of others. Any types of conduct that violates basic rights (human rights is one of them) of another person. It can show as covert or overt hostility.

Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6730 on: April 10, 2018, 12:56:42 AM »
Btw. I was in Hungary 1.5 years ago and my customer said I should not talk public or even in small private circle about politics when I do critiques the Hungarian government with it, because it can bring the other people into trouble. Does this sound like in a democracy to you?
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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6731 on: April 10, 2018, 02:33:19 AM »

Is a democratic election for you when the government controls all media corporation by law? Nothing really critical about the government can be broadcaster anymore under the fear of being oppressed or shut down ? NGO's opposing the government got shut down or getting oppressed?
Voters get one sided media informations and mails? Is this a democratic election? Not only the process of voting is the democratic election. Everything before and after, too. Did you know that FIDESZ while being elected with 48,5% now has 134 out if 199? This was changed in 2011 under Organ?
How DARE YOU to tell me this is democratic and I would despise democracy?

Gosh! How far has democracy come if people can't distinguish anymore what a real democratic election is and what is the doing of totalitarians.

This is why a populace that is educated about the issues at stake and who are educated about having critical thinking is so important to a successful democracy. And also why one of the first things a wannabe dictator or totalitarian does is make the education system a mere shadow of its former self, in order to turn it into a vehicle of pro-strongman propaganda.

Educated citizens don't fall for totalitarians as much as non-educated ones, generally speaking.
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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6732 on: April 10, 2018, 04:17:05 AM »

Is a democratic election for you when the government controls all media corporation by law? Nothing really critical about the government can be broadcaster anymore under the fear of being oppressed or shut down ? NGO's opposing the government got shut down or getting oppressed?
Voters get one sided media informations and mails? Is this a democratic election? Not only the process of voting is the democratic election. Everything before and after, too. Did you know that FIDESZ while being elected with 48,5% now has 134 out if 199? This was changed in 2011 under Organ?
How DARE YOU to tell me this is democratic and I would despise democracy?

Gosh! How far has democracy come if people can't distinguish anymore what a real democratic election is and what is the doing of totalitarians.

This is why a populace that is educated about the issues at stake and who are educated about having critical thinking is so important to a successful democracy. And also why one of the first things a wannabe dictator or totalitarian does is make the education system a mere shadow of its former self, in order to turn it into a vehicle of pro-strongman propaganda.

Educated citizens don't fall for totalitarians as much as non-educated ones, generally speaking.

The problem is that the educated citizens if they want to be successful in such an environment are the ones using the non-educated ones, that are not able to do critical thinking, that are not able to see propagand, that are not able to realize that their democracy is at stake because they fall for the populism of the radical right, totalitarian and dictators.

Only those educated true at heart oppose such anti-democratic developments.
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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6733 on: April 10, 2018, 11:13:13 PM »
Earlier today I did something you are not supposed to do: read the comments of YouTube video. But one of them brought up an interesting point regarding the raid on Michael Cohen.

"Cohen opened a bank account, formed an LLC and took out an equity loan - he needed to give a reason for all 3. I doubt he said 'to pay off a porn star' So he lied to a bank, a federal felony, whoops he's toast."

Also, remember how he keeps trying to make people believe that he did this for his "friend" and client? When asked about it, said client said he didn't know about it nor did he know how Cohen got the money to pay for Ms. Daniels to keep her mouth shut. Which proves two things:

1) Once again, he continues his reputation for stiffing people after they work for him. Remember, Cohen is supposed to be his lawyer.

2) There's no doubt that after the Taint Team (yes, that is really their name!) separates the "lawyer-client privilege" stuff from the rest of the information gathered in the raid, Mr. Cohen will go down for perjury, bribery, financial misdealings, etc. and therefore be disbarred. So by saying this, Cohen's client just threw his "friend" and lawyer under the bus.

Also, do not be distracted by Cohen's client shouting "witch hunt". People like him are the first to tell others "if you know you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about...trust the process, and let the process take its course".

Right?
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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #6734 on: April 10, 2018, 11:13:57 PM »
One more thing:

For federal agents to have searched Cohen’s apartment, office, and hotel room, prosecutors must have convinced a judge that a raid was necessary to obtain evidence of a crime that Cohen might have attempted to hide or destroy if he was issued a subpoena. The implications, for Cohen and for Trump, are potentially explosive. “I suppose you could say that it is Trump’s moment of truth,” Bob Bauer, the former Obama White House general counsel, told me. “It is the red line he always seemed to draw in his bitter complaints about the Mueller investigation—now here we are. Cohen would not be a subject or target that Trump would wish to have flipped against him.”...

Legal experts agree this is a major development. “It’s an enormously aggressive move for any prosecutor to make, particularly given Cohen’s client,” said Sol Wisenberg, a deputy special prosecutor during the Starr investigation. Neal Katyal, who served as acting solicitor general under Obama, described it as “very bad news” for Cohen. “D.O.J. only raids once they have concluded that lesser options—like cooperation—aren’t working and that there is a risk that evidence may be destroyed,” he said. The barrier to convincing a judge to approve a search warrant would be even higher in a case involving a sitting president. More significant, a judge would require evidence of potential illegal behavior between Trump and Cohen before approving the seizure of any communications involving both of them. “If the warrant specifically authorized the seizure of attorney-client communications, the government would have had to convince a federal magistrate that the crime-fraud exception was in play,” Wisenberg added....

Trump’s explosive response to news of the raid may help to explain why it was carried out by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, rather than by Mueller’s team. As Bloomberg reported Monday, the impetus for the warrant was circuitous: Mueller brought information he had uncovered about Cohen to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who was put in charge of the Trump-Russia probe following Attorney General Jeff Sessions’s recusal last year, and then Rosenstein made a referral to the S.D.N.Y. As a result, the raid was not technically part of Mueller’s Russia investigation—a distinction that may have as much to do with politics as with jurisprudence.

“The S.D.N.Y. is tooled up to execute such raids, whereas the special counsel’s office sitting in D.C. would face logistical challenges in trying to do it themselves,” Katyal said. More important, outsourcing the raid could mean “there is some aspect to what is in Cohen’s office that is outside of Mueller’s jurisdiction,” he added. If the latter is true, Wisenberg noted, “Then it is no longer part of Mueller’s case.”...Still, it provides the special counsel with at least one degree of separation from the initial raid. “To criticize Mueller misses the mark,” Wisenberg continued. “It was wise of Rosenstein to assign the case to another office to take the heat off of Mueller.”...

Mueller, of course, has an ace up his sleeve, since anything the Southern District team uncovers that relates to Russia would be referred back to the special counsel’s office anyway. In short, Mueller is outsourcing the work, protecting himself from some of the fallout, and will likely receive the same results as he would have searching through Cohen’s documents himself.

Will Cohen flip? “You just need to break one weak link to do it,” Hall said. But don’t expect new indictments too soon. “I think that things are going to sound like they are slowing down for a little bit because all of this information has to be pulled, digested, analyzed, inputted into a bigger picture,” he cautioned. “Nixon didn’t resign because of the Ellsberg Papers, but that led to the Watergate break-in, that led to the cover-up, and Nixon’s resignation was tied directly to the cover-up . . . So, to me, as things heat up, the next big thing will be a shift from things like ‘What was the Russian involvement in the campaign?’ to ‘Has the cover-up begun and where is it?’”
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