MERGED: The Politics Thread

[3deroticer]

Interesting that by changing the 14th amendment would effect anchor babies and target them to being paid under the table with cheap labor because of lack of rights. This essentially would subject them to unfair wages and corporate slavery. However, I am incline to agree with stripping the 14th amendment if this can strip corporation it's own entity as citizenship. I would also be in favor of banning marriage between corporation and politician(in some cases even polygamy with multi corporation), but allow gay couple to be married.

[Real]

it would help keep us all safe from "terror babies" accorting to this whacked out motherfucker though lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/13/anderson-cooper-grills-lo_n_681421.html

This Gohmert guy not only holds elected office but was a judge?  Truly scary.

[Real]

Here's a few more genius quotes from the Islamophobe GOP frontrunner:

“Kill jobs and lead to a recession, force people off of work and onto unemployment and will actually increase the deficit.” - Newt Gingrich on Bill Clinton's '93 budget bill.

“In Washington DC 800 babies are left in dumpsters a year.”  800 being GOP "scare speak" for...4.

“Most People don’t realize it’s illegal to pray in school, most people somehow think that’s not true.” Because it isn't. Flat out lie.

“We must expect the Soviet system to survive for a very long time. There will be Soviet labor camps and Soviet torture chambers well into our grandchildren’s lives.” Further demonstrating his genius grasp on the dynamics of world events.

And now he's busy rewriting the history of Cordoba to stoke anti-islamist hate and subvert the 1st amendment rights of the Muslim Americans.  He and the rest of the GOP have now proven they equate these all citizens to al-qaeda terrorists.

When it comes to the 1 remaining world superpower, pretty much anyone deserves a peace prize for replacing his hateful ilk in the Oval Office.  

Without question, the world is that much safer.

[SamV]

In case anyone is unaware but the so-called "Tea Party" isn't so much a unified political organization in the way the Repub and the Dems are, but instead is made up of individual grass root groups who all claim to have similar political ideas and goals, but not necessarily the same means of obtaining or implementing them.

To that end there is one segment of this Tea Party movement that is trying to be a more gentile genteel version of the movement; and that would be the Chamomile Tea Party.  

In taking their name from a herbal tea long believed to have a relaxing and soothing effect this group purports the following:

Tired of the rancor between the political left and right, the Chamomile Tea Party was formed to be a calming antidote to those Americans who would rather fight than move forward. When party politics, character assassination, and rhetoric take precedence over the good of the country it's time to say enough is enough.

The Chamomile Tea Party is not promoting a middle-of-the-road political position. Rather, it seeks to promote useful dialog between people of differing opinions. Racist epitaphs, obstructionist Congressional behavior, and popular personalities who incite to divide us are hurting the American people and weakening our international reputation. Neither liberals nor conservatives, Democrats nor Republicans are innocent angels.

I'm not sure this isn't all some sort of a put-on but here are some links.
FBook: Chamomile Tea Party
flickr: Chamomile Tea Party Posters

Sam "who thinks most of the Tea Party grass root groups have more in common with crab grass and astroturf" V
 

[SamV]

it would help keep us all safe from "terror babies" accorting to this whacked out motherfucker though lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/13/anderson-cooper-grills-lo_n_681421.html

This Gohmert guy not only holds elected office but was a judge?  Truly scary.

GOHMERT: "You are attacking the messenger, Anderson, you are better than this. You used to be good. You used to find that there was a problem and you would go after it."

Mr. Gohmet in case you don't get it; Anderson is still good, because with all the political fear mongering and lies you and your cohorts are spreading, you sir, ARE the problem!

[3deroticer]

I didn't know the Tea Party is a grass root movement? I thought it was heavily funded by corporation and started by FOXnews?

[pedonbio]

I loved his recent "do as I say, not as I do" excuse for yammering about "family values" while fucking anything that will stand still. Look, I will fuck most anything that will stand still; but I don't prattle about "family values".

[SamV]

OH! -- So that explains what happened to my rubber duckey.

[TheZookie007]

To that end there is one segment of this Tea Party movement that is trying to be a more gentile version of the movement; and that would be the Chamomile Tea Party.  

You meant "genteel". A Gentile Tea Party is pretty much what's up right now, since I don't see too many Jewish or Muslim Tea Partiers

Cordoba House is being fought mainly by non-New Yorkers who know absolutely nothing about the history or geography of the area. After all, there's a full-fledged mosque, Masjid Manhattan, on Broadway -- it's been there since 1970. It's still there today. And all of these people invoking the "Ground Zero is hallowed ground, Cordoba House is too close to it" line are equally idiotic. Here is a list of businesses at the same distance from Ground Zero as Cordoba House...including an Applebee's, a TGI Friday's, and the Pussycat Lounge strip club, one of six in the area.

Face it, the opposition to this place has been driven by anti-Islamic sentiment spewed by a rabid anti-Muslim blogger, and helped along by the right-wing spin machine of Faux News and the New York Post. It's embarrassing, and maddening especially since what they fear is entirely unfounded, with the likes of that bumbling hypocrite Newt Gingrich spouting nonsense like "There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia." You have beef with the Saudis, complain to them. They're not at issue here. This is about some Americans wishing to build a center to educate people about their faith, in New York. Whether they are Muslim or Christian or Scientologist, is immaterial. They have the absolute right to build there. It's not as if the people behind Cordoba House are the same people who committed the crime of 9/11. The only thing they have in common with those degenerates, is their religion. Are we going to blame all Christians for Timothy McVeigh?

All these people invoking the Founding Fathers and whatnot should take a step back and see what they are saying. Go back to the source materials and realize that America was created partly because people wanted to escape persecution and prejudice solely based on their religion, or the actions (real or imagined) of their co-religionists.

The New Yorker: "Park51, the proposed mosque near Ground Zero"

A couple of weeks before the last election, the Republican nominees for President and Vice-President granted a joint interview to Brian Williams, of NBC. "Governor," he asked, turning to the distaff half of the ticket, "what is an élite? Who is a member of the élite?" Sarah Palin replied, "Anyone who thinks that they are, I guess, better than anyone else—that's my definition of élitism." "It's not geography?" Williams pursued. "Of course not," she said. The ticket's other half blinked and smiled a tight smile. John McCain had something to say.

MCCAIN: I know where a lot of them live.
WILLIAMS: Where's that?
MCCAIN: Well, in our nation's capital and New York City. I've seen it. I've lived there.

These élitists, he went on to explain, "think that they can dictate what they believe to America rather than let Americans decide for themselves."

It was nice of Palin not to go all geographical on us back then. She has forgotten her patron's admonition about Americans letting other Americans decide for themselves, but at least she says please, or its Twitter equivalent. In a follow-up to her quickly famous, quickly removed "pls refudiate" tweet, she tweeted, "Peaceful New Yorkers, pls refute the Ground Zero mosque plan if you believe catastrophic pain caused @ Twin Towers site is too raw, too real." Sic, sic, sic.

Ah, the "Ground Zero mosque." Well, for a start, it won't be at Ground Zero. It'll be on Park Place, two blocks north of the World Trade Center site (from which it will not be visible), in a neighborhood ajumble with restaurants, shops (electronics, porn, you name it), churches, office cubes, and the rest of the New York mishmash. Park51, as it is to be called, will have a large Islamic "prayer room," which presumably qualifies as a mosque. But the rest of the building will be devoted to classrooms, an auditorium, galleries, a restaurant, a memorial to the victims of September 11, 2001, and a swimming pool and gym. Its sponsors envision something like the 92nd Street Y—a Y.M.I.A., you might say, open to all, including persons of the C. and H. persuasions....

...In a famous letter -- the one that holds that the United States "gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens" -- George Washington offered a benediction:

"May the children of the stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants, while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid."

Lower Manhattan is a little short on vines and fig trees nowadays, though there are some excellent wine bars. Washington's point remains. His letter was addressed to the Jews of Newport, Rhode Island. But, as he knew, Muslims are Abraham's children, too. By the McCain standard, George Washington was a three-time loser: as President, he lived in New York City; the nation's capital bears his name; and, even by the standards of his time, he was an élitist. Nevertheless: he was right.

[SamV]

You meant "genteel". A Gentile Tea Party is pretty much what's up right now, since I don't see too many Jewish or Muslim Tea Partiers

Yeah that's what I meant.  
Damn simple minded spell checker in the browser doesn't have an auditory check like the dictionary software I normalLEE use.  
----
As far as the rest of your post goes I find it interesting that McCain points out how New Yorkers, at least the 'elites' in it, want to dictate to the rest of the country. Yet isn't the fact all these Islamofacist paranoids are dictating to New Yorkers where mosques should be even though the majority of them don't even live there. So isn't that the same thing?

And you can tell a lot of this has nothing to do with the sacredness of Ground Zero (I hate that name everyone uses for ONE of the 9/11 attack sites, but then what do I know? I only live in PA (not 'P-A') and under UA Flight 93's flight path before it went down in Somerset.) when as was pointed out on one of the nightly news programs there has been concerted opposition to the building of Islamic mosques and such in other states around the county. Makes me think back to the reception Jewish synagogues got from the bigots back in the 1900's thought the 1960's.

I'd suggest they should all go rent a copy of Gentleman's Agreement (1947), then sit down and watch it; but I'm afraid they wouldn't get it.

[pedonbio]

and the Pussycat Lounge strip club, one of six in the area.

Excuse me, Zookie. I think that is a sacred use.   

You have raised a topic that I've wondered about, too--Why should anybody outside of New York shoot off his mouth about a New York City zoning issue? By the way, one irony regarding the fact it is not a mosque--If it were a mosque, the "Religious Liberty Zoning Act" passed in 2002 by a heavily Republican congress and signed into law by none other than G.W.Bush would have prohibited the New York zoning commission from stopping construction. One of its chief lobbyists was Ted Haggard, dear friend of G.W. and frequent supporter of gay hookers.

The hypocrisy around this stinks to... well, high heaven.

[TheZookie007]

The Law of Unintended Consequences rears its head again. When the RLZA was passed, they were thinking only of their right-wing fundamentalist Christians...little knowing that it could and should be applied equally to other religions.

In fairness to Dubya, he always, post-9/11, made it clear that he had no beef with Muslims or Islam per se, and always tried to make people not demonize Muslims, or blame all members of the religion for the demented actions of a few.

And I agree with you both: non-New Yorkers should STFU about this. You wanna talk about NIMBY? Unless you live in Manhattan, Cordoba House is far from being in your backyard. In that NBC Nightly News piece, I noticed that every one of the nitwits speaking against Cordoba House weren't even from Manhattan (Marlton NJ?? Where the FUCK is Marlton NJ, and why don't you carry your ignorant racist ass back there, and leave we New Yorkers alone?)...hypocrites, fucking hypocrites, the lot of them. And they always conveniently forget about the other planes hitting the Pentagon and that went down in Shanksville. There's a mosque in the Pentagon and Muslims pray there every day, and no one blinks an eye. Nor should they blink an eye.

[TheZookie007]

Slight correction: I've looked but I can't seem to find anything called the "Religious Liberty Zoning Act of 2002". I did run into the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA) of 2000, and the law that it superseded, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) of 1993.

[pedonbio]

Yeah, I confabulated the two names. Space cadet.

[JJ]

Our Man in the White House, the 'Bama Man, comes down on the wrong side of an issue again? 


His "Dukakis" Moment   

[JJ]

Today in the USA, a day like all days except you are there.* 

(line used in famous old CBS TV show)

And in Radio land today, millions of Americans will tune in to listen to a number of talk shows, but among the top nine rated programs, NONE OF THEM WILL BE HOSTED BY LIBERAL TALK SHOW HOSTS? 
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Top Nine Rated Radio Talk Shows, circa 2009.

Talkers Magazine compiles Arbitron's data, along with other sources, to estimate the minimum weekly audiences of various commercial long-form talk radio shows.

The Rush Limbaugh Show – 20+ million
The Sean Hannity Show – 12+ million
Glenn Beck Program – 10+ million
The Savage Nation – 10+ million
The Dr. Laura Program – 9+ million
The Mark Levin Show – 6.25 million
The Laura Ingraham Show – 6.25 million
The Dave Ramsey Show – 6.25 million
Neal Boortz – 4.25+ million




So why can't a Liberal talk show host get a big audience?   

Governor Mario Cuomo was a failure, as was Bill Clinton, Al Gore and a long list of other famous Liberals.   A starter kit is simple - have a few sponsors (if you can't find one, call George Soros), buy a microphone and most important of all, have an agenda to talk about.  There are 10,000 radio stations in the USA, so putting together your own network is no problem, unless......................

Could it be that nobody wants to hear what they have to say? 

Or could it be that what they have to say can't be defended in the light of day unless programmed and protected by the American Mainstream Media on TV, in magazines and newspapers?   

 


LOL Oops!

[Nimrod]

Or could it be that all those on the right can not think for themselves and require a pack of vitriolic hate mongers to spew lowest common denominator sound bites that mimic each other and accomplish little except establish how little they can do while offering no substantive solutions of their own?

Just wondering here. LOL indeed.

[stunning36hh]

Hey, Air America gave it a try.  I used to listen to it when I was remodeling my house, just to see what the left contemplated routinely: unabashed communism basically.  I wasn't surprised it went off the air, it was a very public failure of left wing talk radio.  The talk show personalities on Air America appealed more to the emotional side of the mind, and the frontal lobe, cognitive ideas were were foreign (Marxist/Leninist) to those outside academic circles.  The soul of America is at odds with the heart of the left wing movement, and I think we'll see that this election cycle.  

The governmentally funded left wing National Public Radio is doing just fine.  It appeals to the elitist tendencies of one's heart: soft music, soothing voices, and high production value with a mix of the arts and music to round it out.  Listening to NPR is like sitting in a comfortable sofa for the ears, until your mind perceives the "government does best, everyone's a victim, capitalism is corrupt" messages streaming out.  Maybe someday the soul of America will resonate with these ideologies, I just don't think that time is near.  Americans have another choice, and in droves they are choosing conservative talk radio.  

FYI: do not go into the "Right Wing Tavern" thread, the beverages they're serving over there have something foul in them.    

See Nimrod's reply: the conservative isn't allowed an alternative point of view without being what, a hate monger.  Really, a hate monger?  Instead of getting into a discussion of ideas, these topics degenerate into name calling.  Reminds me of the kind of talk on Air America. 

[Real]

the american right stands for intolerance.  why wouldnt they be labeled hate mongers?

if it wasnt obvious before, the way theyve overwhelmingly equated american muslims to the 9-11 hijackers is and out and out statement of the intorlerant xenophobia that serves as the principal fuel to their movement at the moment.

for example, liberalism is not communism.  no matter how much you just feel like saying it is.  this dedicated meme warfare is not only an insult to the intelligence of anyone who has their junior high, but another example of rightist hate mongering as false terms like "ground zero mosque" and "terror babies" continue to circulate through your corporate so called leftist media.

bp and wall street and the next round of trapped coal miners is your perfect private system.  george bush is your perect system, you have no new ideas only new scapegoats.  new corporate alarmists ready to call clinton era tax rates "socialism" while your countrys poor send their children across the world to fight two nearly decades long wars.   that's this century's gop's version of patriotism.

if you want to be or run with hate mongers, you should be prepared to own that shit.

[Q_BE]

FYI: do not go into the "Right Wing Tavern" thread, the beverages they're serving over there have something foul in them.  

Trust me, I'm working on it. I just have to get up the gumption to dive back into the morass and clean up the bar taps.

Q-"We need Barack Obama: Health Inspector!"-BE

[Real]

yeah q-be, youve been conspicuously absent over there since you embarassed yourself tying the credibility of rush limbaugh to a fake "opinion audit", and dragging yours over the cliff along with it.

if only just you had google, hey?  then the false stuff you just say couldnt be clowned on so easily lol.

[Q_BE]

Q_BE throw me a line!  I'm drowning over here.  Any right wingers in the right wing tavern?  (sound of crickets)  Dammit!  "I'll have some of the Kool Aid yer servin' here, seems to be doin' the trick for the others 'round here."    

I'll help you out, stunning, but as I've said it's hard to cut through the gigantic swaths of liberal crap here without consuming my whole life. I had (wrongly) assumed that the lefty members here might have some decorum and simply choose to vacate this thread, but no, they can't be bothered not to taunt and defame every conservative pundit or person they can find. Contrary to their popular belief, there is a solid, conservative, rational, reasonable, and RIGHT response to every policy issue they can imagine, and the fact they have to spend so much time trashing their opposition just indicates they have nothing else to go on.

Q-"Give me corporations or give me death"-BE

[3deroticer]

Our Man in the White House, the 'Bama Man, comes down on the wrong side of an issue again? 


His "Dukakis" Moment   

I thought this country was found upon the principle of religious freedom, I would love to hear how this is Obama's snafu on supporting freedom of religion.

Tell me more why we should have ban in place of worship on private land?

[Real]

well sure there are rational reasonable conservatives out there.

unfortunately the bob inglis' of the gop are to be tossed out on their heads for not playing the scare tactics game.  i thought newt gingrich was at least mostly just a serial philanderer (who cares not my business) until he suggested this week the us should be looking to mirror saudi arabia's religous freedoms.

its funny you talk about defamation though, when your last post in this thread was an already exposed lie you pointed to as proof of credibility.

you rightists would find yourselves a lot less frustrated if you bothered with the most elementary grasp of irony lol.  like the fact that your screeching christian taliban tea bagger faction does a better job discrediting and defaming the rational and reasonable conservatives than any liberal ever could.

yeah those RIGHT answers are out there alright, q-"throw money at the people sending my jobs overseas, or give me death"-be just needs time to google any unverified web content that says so lol.

[pedonbio]

they can't be bothered not to taunt and defame every conservative pundit or person they can find.

I love it! It appears that in Q_BE's mind it is defamation when I refer to Rush Limbaugh as a "felonious drug-addicted brain-damaged" person merely because he comitted a felony while smuggling drugs to satisfy the addiction he developed as a result of his brain damage.

[pedonbio]

well sure there are rational reasonable conservatives out there.

I would suggest Bob Dole, Chris Buckley, and Olympia Snow for three.

[rtpoe]

Too bad no one's stepping aside to let them speak.

[rtpoe]

Especially when the former Burlington Coat Factory building is *already* being used to Islamic services...

[TheZookie007]

I had (wrongly) assumed that the lefty members here might have some decorum and simply choose to vacate this thread, but no, they can't be bothered not to taunt and defame every conservative pundit or person they can find.

Three things, briefly:

1. Unless and until you own your own server and run your own forum, you cannot make anyone, left-wing, right-wing, or no-wing, "vacate this thread", or any other thread here. You're not a moderator, and you're not the Owner of the BEA. If you don't like it, tough.

2. If someone says something about another person, which is true, and provably so, then that person is not being defamed.

3. Speaking only for myself, I'm not "taunting or defaming every conservative pundit or person I can find" mainly because I have better things to do with my time, and also because there are so many of them around these days that if I did want to "taunt" them, I'd have no time for anything else.

Contrary to their popular belief, there is a solid, conservative, rational, reasonable, and RIGHT response to every policy issue they can imagine, and the fact they have to spend so much time trashing their opposition just indicates they have nothing else to go on.

Q-"Give me corporations or give me death"-BE

You may be right about the fact that there is a "solid, conservative, rational, reasonable" response to every policy issue, but neither you nor the people who you listen to on Faux News seem to have brought them up. Instead, they spend their time simply being a Party of Opposition instead of being an opposition party -- those are two very different things.

In any event, unless you are being facetious with your tagline, I don't expect you to understand that difference.

Sorry, that wasn't as brief as I wanted it to be. I could have used just three words, but I didn't want to cuss.

[TheZookie007]

...and especially since there's been a mosque in lower Manhattan, not too far away from the Burlington Coat Factory, since 1970.

Anyone who conflates the people behind Cordoba House with the 9/11 hijackers, is at best ignorant and is at worst a xenophobic racist religious bigot. Period.

[sidewalkpsycho]

Wasn't there a muslim praying room in the towers, too?

[Shara]

probably

[Shara]

*looks at the Obama thread*

yes... rightwingers are completely reasonable 

[sidewalkpsycho]

I wonder what it is about being a republican that makes them incessantly spam message boards. I guess it's angry talk radio derangement syndrome or something.

69 pages summed up in 2 sentences.

[onion_writer]

I hate even clicking on this thread anymore, as it always makes me angry.

As I may have said before, I was in NYC on 911. I smelled the smoke and tasted the dust. Anyone who was not there should shut the fuck up.

I say: build the mosque. Build 10 mosques. Build 20! THAT will show the world how America values religious freedom, and strike a true blow to our intolerant enemies.

Not to go all religious, but as recommended by Jesus (recognized by Islam as a prophet), greet hate with love. There can be no surer message to the extremists than to allow this project to proceed. We will rob them of their hate-filled diatribes, and prove ourselves as true leaders. To do otherwise is to show that we are hypocrites.

Forgive this interruption. Now, back to the bewbies.