MERGED: The Politics Thread

[onion_writer]

Then there's the member who shall remain nameless because he is irrelevant, who deems to call me a "troll"?     I've been a contributing member here ages longer than him, but never been called a troll before?

I'm the one who called you a troll. Because you are. And it doesn't matter if I'm a brand new member, or if I joined the BEA in 1896 -- you're still a troll.

I also called you a Teatard.

[3deroticer]

copy and paste an entire article, and using double spaces, while almost never engage in a dialogue, and you have never been called a troll?

I find that incredible! Count me as the second person in your entire life to call you a troll! You are a lying Troll, or Trolling for Lies! Either way, thanks for the attention to this gross oversight on this issue, I appreciate the head up on this injustice.

I cant tell you how many times we ask for proof, or direct link to your sources, and find out its a lie of disinformation, only to be ignore so that you continuing trolling on this forum. I think it is time to make this into a game of how many lies we can find in your post.

[Shara]

[rtpoe]

"JJ" keeps reporting Obama's popularity polls and think that he should resign or be impeach.
With that logic, I wonder if he would feel the same if his popularity poll was taken and if it was indeed lower than Obama, if he would be willing to resign?

Appallingly bad "approval ratings" didn't knock Dubya out of office, so why should mildly bad ones force President Obama out?

[TheZookie007]

To return to the adult discussion that this thread was intended to promote:

GOOD: "Americans Are Horribly Misinformed About Who Has Money"

"Americans have a really distorted view of how wealth is distributed in this country.

This chart is from a paper called "Building a Better America One Wealth Quintile at a Time" by Dan Ariely and Michael I. Norton.

The top row shows the actual distribution of wealth in America. The richest 20 percent, represented by that blue line, has about 85 percent of the wealth. The next richest 20 percent, represented by that red line, has about 10 percent of the wealth. And the remaining three-fifths of America shares a tiny sliver of the country's wealth.

Below that, the "Estimated" rows show how different groups think wealth is distributed. As you can see, in people's misinformed minds things are much more equitable.

Matt Yglesias explains what's interesting here:

What's interesting here is the extent to which the public vastly overestimates the prosperity of lower-income Americans. The public thinks the 4th quintile has more money than the median quintile actually has. And the public thinks the 5th quintile has vastly more wealth than it really has.

You can easily see how this could have a giant distorting effect on our politics. Poor Americans are simply much, much, much needier than people realize and this is naturally going to lead to an undue slighting of their interests.

Indeed. It's fine if reasonable people have different ideas about whether we should extend the Bush tax cuts for people making more than $250,000. Or think estate taxes are unfair. But when we have those debates, it's critical that everyone has a clear understanding of how things really are. We're becoming a plutocracy."


A democracy depends on its citizens being and remaining well-informed. If the citizenry remains willfully ignorant or, worse, is constantly fed a diet of lies, the entire country is the loser.

[JJ]

The Obama years - draining the swamp. 

[number3fac]

The Obama years - draining the swamp. 

I don't get it.  What is the metaphor represented by that image?

[TheZookie007]

I don't get it.  What is the metaphor represented by that image?

It's like I said in the post just above: "If the citizenry remains willfully ignorant or, worse, is constantly fed a diet of lies, the entire country is the loser."

[onion_writer]

The Obama years - draining the swamp. 

This cartoon would seem to be an endorsement of the Democratic Party, revealing the shoddy ethics of Republicans. I'm sure JJ didn't intend it that way, and for once I respect his intent. I blame the muddled mind of the cartoonist. It's just a bad, confused analogy.

[JJ]

Two views of the Obama years............

1. Stimulus Plan at work ?

2. Media treatment of satire/slander ?

[3deroticer]

Two views of the Obama years............

1. Stimulus Plan at work ?

2. Media treatment of satire/slander ?

You already showed us the racist cartoon, might as well show us the "negro in the tree" again as well! You couldn't hurt your reputation of being a racist anymore than you have.

[Shara]

You already showed us the racist cartoon, might as well show us the "negro in the tree" again as well! You couldn't hurt your reputation of being a racist anymore than you have.

?

[SwitcherX]

?

 

[3deroticer]

Yes, like this one, but not only is the joke about black people hanging in the tree use in content to be racist, but it makes fun of McCain of being racist toward African-American for which I find no relevancy in the joke.

Now we have often call on "JJ" of using cartoon that aren't base on anything relevant to Obama, other than the lies of the Republican talking point. I think in this case I would call upon a lie that John McCain made racist remark toward African-American. Basically a pointless racist joke that falls flat that aren't base on anything to be a valid political satire. Marginally funny at best, fair usage for a political satire is questionable. The closest thing I find John McCain guilty of racism is when he called Asian people gook, in reference to his time being torture in a POW camp. Not everyone can come out of prison and forgive their capture like the president of South Africa, Nelson Mandella.

[TheZookie007]

For those who would have you believe that the bailout did not work:

Yahoo! Finance: "Exclusive: Treasury's TARP, AIG Bailout Costs Fall to $30 Billion"

"...These figures likely won't do much to rehabilitate the popular image of TARP. Americans generally regard the program as having been conceived in sin, and attitudes against it have hardened. Through TARP, the government still has a portfolio of $184 billion in "investments" it never wanted — in banks, car companies, AIG, and vehicles created to purchase toxic assets. And even with profits in TARP's core programs, taxpayers will be saddled with other bailout-related costs, such as the assumption of the debt of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. More broadly, the benefits of TARP, which was sold as a way to get credit flowing again, haven't always been apparent to most Americans. Treasury has been engaged in a campaign to educate the public about the net cost and impact of TARP. But at a time when Wall Street firms are performing well and unemployment remains high, it remains a difficult sell.

TARP has been an enormous success from a policy perspective — it saved the financial system and averted a second Great Depression at a very low price to taxpayers. But politically, like the assets it was designed to remove from banks, it remains toxic."

[pedonbio]

"...These figures likely won't do much to rehabilitate the popular image of TARP. Americans generally regard the program as having been conceived in sin, and attitudes against it have hardened.

This, sadly, may be the lasting effect of our current madness. The next Depression will come and it is likely that whoever is in office will have an advisor who will remind him/her of the unpopularity of the combined TARP/stimulus packages which stopped this Depression from getting worse. They were an effective tool. If any of the faux conservatives who are now critical of the program were literate enough to read the people who were real conservatives, like the late Milton Friedman, they would know that the stimulus was exactly what Friedman argued would have stopped the decline into the Great Depression.

[Shara]

Yes, like this one, but not only is the joke about black people hanging in the tree use in content to be racist, but it makes fun of McCain of being racist toward African-American for which I find no relevancy in the joke.

Now we have often call on "JJ" of using cartoon that aren't base on anything relevant to Obama, other than the lies of the Republican talking point. I think in this case I would call upon a lie that John McCain made racist remark toward African-American. Basically a pointless racist joke that falls flat that aren't base on anything to be a valid political satire. Marginally funny at best, fair usage for a political satire is questionable. The closest thing I find John McCain guilty of racism is when he called Asian people gook, in reference to his time being torture in a POW camp. Not everyone can come out of prison and forgive their capture like the president of South Africa, Nelson Mandella.

remember folks, this is after 4 hours of calling me a racist and Palomine someone who 'just can't seem to understand' in chat.

[3deroticer]

I don't recall calling you a racist, and I ask you how was this relevant to John McCain, and you tried to egg me into calling you a racist, by deflecting the question that neither you or Palomine refuse to answer. You can get upset or over react all you want. But your no better than "JJ" using cartoon that has no bearing on reality. I also ask you how is it not a racist joke with the content of the joke referring to a black person hanging from a tree, which was one of the common way of death around slavery in the south.

You defend yourself saying that Chris Rock was more racist than you so that was okay, and that you have many black friend that think this joke was funny, so its okay by your standard. While I never cared about that, but only point out that the joke was racist and had no bearing on John McCain, even though Palomine says it makes fun of John McCain for being a racist to ward Obama, when that was not true, so it failed IMO to make a satire on John. Even after I left the chat participation I look back at your statement, and it seems that you went on for several hours still mulling over in being called a racist, so I'm sorry that bothers you. But feel free to actually address the question, or play the victim like "JJ" does about how people have called him names in a debate.

[Shara]

I don't recall calling you a racist, and I ask you how was this relevant to John McCain, and you tried to egg me into calling you a racist, by deflecting the question that neither you or Palomine refuse to answer. You can get upset or over react all you want. But your no better than "JJ" using cartoon that has no bearing on reality. I also ask you how is it not a racist joke with the content of the joke referring to a black person hanging from a tree, which was one of the common way of death around slavery in the south.

You defend yourself saying that Chris Rock was more racist than you so that was okay, and that you have many black friend that think this joke was funny, so its okay by your standard. While I never cared about that, but only point out that the joke was racist and had no bearing on John McCain, even though Palomine says it makes fun of John McCain for being a racist to ward Obama, when that was not true, so it failed IMO to make a satire on John. Even after I left the chat participation I look back at your statement, and it seems that you went on for several hours still mulling over in being called a racist, so I'm sorry that bothers you. But feel free to actually address the question, or play the victim like "JJ" does about how people have called him names in a debate.

sure omit 90% of the blamegame you played , we've seen this strategy before.

[3deroticer]

okay!

[Palomine]

3D, you are mistaken: I said that I thought it was a joke attempting to make fun of John McCain by portraying him as an old-time racist (which isn't true as far as I know) and not a joke making fun of lynching. The joke isn't that funny, but that's not a crime... we don't remove jokes because they lack hilarity. And by the way, just because you don't get the answer you want, it doesn't mean your question wasn't answered of course.

[Siria]

John McCain isn't particularly racist personally. I think he realized along the campaign trail that virtually all of his supporters were white and many of them were disaffected whites who didn't want to accept that non-whites are increasingly important members of the electorate. He had the unfortunate position of being between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't really like racism and didn't want to be viewed as a racism, but a lot of his supporters were racists or racist sympathizers.

It's kind of like the current "birther" nonsense about Obama. Most Republicans think birtherism is nonsensical, but at the same time they don't want to alienate the people who believe in such a fantasy, because those people are a core group within the opposition.

On election night, after realizing he wasn't going to win, McCain's speech included an acknowledgment that having a black President was really important to African Americans. While he believed he would have been a better President overall, he knew that Obama would be a symbol of the country's commitment to diversity for even being willing to elect a nonwhite, something he could never be as an old white man.

He knew that Obama, whether a good president or a bad president, would be remembered as the first time the country elected someone to the Presidency who was non-white. He knew that regardless of how good or bad the Obama Presidency was, the story of African Americans' civil rights just entered a new chapter; a chapter where while racism was still very much an issue, the country is still willing to entrust its highest office to a black man.

I don't think a person who is racist can make that kind of acknowledgment. A person who is racist doesn't have the emotional intelligence to think about things like how significant the nation's willingness to elect a black President would be to black people. A person who is racist would say that the blacks are happy because they'll finally have the chance to get even--Not that a page of the story of civil rights just turned.

McCain is inherently a reasonable person, if aging. If he's ever appeared racist it's because he is forced to walk a fine line for political reasons, not because of anything he personally believes in.

[3deroticer]

3D, you are mistaken: I said that I thought it was a joke attempting to make fun of John McCain by portraying him as an old-time racist (which isn't true as far as I know) and not a joke making fun of lynching. The joke isn't that funny, but that's not a crime... we don't remove jokes because they lack hilarity. And by the way, just because you don't get the answer you want, it doesn't mean your question wasn't answered of course.

I never ask you to remove the joke, and I am not offended personally by the joke, as I have said it doesn't matter how I feel about it, it doesn't change the fact that its a racist joke, you however said that it didn't advocate lynching therefore it's okay with you. I think if I had wanted to remove a racist joke, that I would have ask you long time ago when there was ton of racist cartoon against Obama. This joke however paints John McCain as being a racist, and I ask you is that valid for the satire to really sink in for the joke to be effective?

McCain has also adopted a African baby as his own long time ago, and I doubt that this is an effective satire. But that is my opinion. You and Shara spent a lot of time dancing around the issue defending and explaining, but the more you do, the more it looks like this really bothers you, and for that I am sorry.

I think Siria is correct in her(corrected) assumption of McCain character and his base being partly racist, and that would offer McCain to be a target of misleading cartoon. Much like most of the cartoon that "JJ" like to use. Which in my opinion is over the line to paint McCain as a tree hanging racist.

[Shara]

http://www.dramabutton.com/

[Palomine]

I never ask you to remove the joke, and I am not offended personally by the joke, as I have said it doesn't matter how I feel about it, it doesn't change the fact that its a racist joke, you however said that it didn't advocate lynching therefore it's okay with you. I think if I had wanted to remove a racist joke, that I would have ask you long time ago when there was ton of racist cartoon against Obama. This joke however paints John McCain as being a racist, and I ask you is that valid for the satire to really sink in for the joke to be effective?

McCain has also adopted a African baby as his own long time ago, and I doubt that this is an effective satire. But that is my opinion. You and Shara spent a lot of time dancing around the issue defending and explaining, but the more you do, the more it looks like this really bothers you, and for that I am sorry.

I think Siria is correct in her(corrected) assumption of McCain character and his base being partly racist, and that would offer McCain to be a target of misleading cartoon. Much like most of the cartoon that "JJ" like to use. Which in my opinion is over the line to paint McCain as a tree hanging racist.

I don't dance. And the only thing about this that 'bothers' me is that you keep confusing your opinion with 'fact' ...it's your opinion that the joke is 'racist' ...that does not make it a fact.

[3deroticer]

Palomine!!!  Black man hanging from a tree...  It's racist! Duh!

[CarlTL]

Its a joke about racists, not a racist joke.

[Palomine]

Palomine!!!  Black man hanging from a tree...  It's racist! Duh!

3D!!! Use the noggin God or evolution gave you and comprehend the distinction as Carl put it: it's not racist, it's about racists.

Please stop lobbying me on this. You're the ONLY user who's expressed any issue with this publicly or privately. Neither I nor any other mod who's seen it has a problem with it re: the Owner's rules. If you insist on believing that yours is the correct interpretation and every single other person who's seen it here is wrong (surely hundreds by now) then go right ahead.

[JJ]

Thinking of Obama........................

1. worst president
2. the teleprompter guy

[Shara]

3D!!! Use the noggin God or evolution gave you and comprehend the distinction as Carl put it: it's not racist, it's about racists.

Please stop lobbying me on this. You're the ONLY user who's expressed any issue with this publicly or privately. Neither I nor any other mod who's seen it has a problem with it re: the Owner's rules. If you insist on believing that yours is the correct interpretation and every single other person who's seen it here is wrong (surely hundreds by now) then go right ahead.

noggin be empty

[3deroticer]

Palomine, I didn't come to you, nor did I lobby you, you said you have been trying to convince me that its not about racism, talk about drama, I am fine with that if that what you think. No worries. hanging a black man in a tree is a aggressive treatment toward a group of people base on skin color. How you define racism is beyond me! I use the dictionary, so if you want to find hundred of friend to change the meaning in the dictionary, go for it. Knock your blood pressure out! I just have never seen you so stubborn to drum up so much drama base on other answer to question I never ask or solicit from you.

If its about a racist, than that was my other question, has McCain ever been racist toward African-American? If he has, then he would be a racist toward blacks, if he hasn't, then the joke falls flat, and paints a lie about his character deeming the satire as unfair as most of "JJ" cartoon depicts Obama as being a Muslim.

Anyway, your still going in circle on this avoiding the question and making up new one for yourself, that I don't give a shit about. But at least you made one step forward with the help of CarlT that its about racist. Show me where McCain has been racist toward blacks, and I'll take it back that the joke went over the line in unfairness toward McCain. These are the fact the joke is base on racism. The punchline drew a reaction of Obama as being not happy with McCain comment.

[3deroticer]

Don't remove the joke! Keep it there!

[TheZookie007]

McCain has also adopted a African baby as his own long time ago, and I doubt that this is an effective satire.

This is wrong. Bridget McCain was adopted from Bangladesh. Oddly enough, during the run-up to the 2000 presidential elections, Karl Rove & co. ran a smear campaign against McCain in South Carolina saying that he had an illegitimate black baby. That smear was one of the reasons why George W. Bush won the Republican nomination.

[number3fac]

Thinking of Obama George W. Bush........................

1. worst president
2. the teleprompter guy

Fixed that, for me.   

[3deroticer]

This is wrong. Bridget McCain was adopted from Bangladesh. Oddly enough, during the run-up to the 2000 presidential elections, Karl Rove & co. ran a smear campaign against McCain in South Carolina saying that he had an illegitimate black baby. That smear was one of the reasons why George W. Bush won the Republican nomination.

Oddly enough, Karl rove use the same to endorse McCain that he adopted a black baby in the campaign to take Obama's vote away. To show that McCain was sympathetic toward blacks.