MERGED: The Politics Thread

[TheZookie007]

It was a similar kind of rant by CNBC's Rick Santelli which in many ways helped to kickstart the Tea Party "movement"...I wonder what this one will give birth to:

Business Insider: "Here's The Epic Dylan Ratigan Rant That Everyone Is Talking About"

[pedonbio]

It was a similar kind of rant by CNBC's Rick Santelli which in many ways helped to kickstart the Tea Party "movement"...I wonder what this one will give birth to:

Business Insider: "Here's The Epic Dylan Ratigan Rant That Everyone Is Talking About"

I like his rant for one reason only: The asshole Congress is playing with itself, pretending that two trillion bucks in cuts, falling entirely on working Americans, NONE OF WHOM ARE THEIR DONORS, will make any difference, while ignoring the billionaires, ALL OF WHOM ARE THEIR DONORS, pay no significant taxes.

The banking/mortgage/financing/credit card buisiness is certainly as corrupt as organized crime, and the financial problems of the United States go way, way beyond federal debt. And he expects Congress to do anything about it? No, thankfully, he doesn't, because they won't, as long as the House is run by a drunk and a bunch of children.

I don't really remember the last time a sitting president took on Congress, eyeball to eyeball, and kicked their asses, but Truman did it in 1948.

So long as any part of the law-writing system refuses to recognize the need for increased taxes, nothing is going to change.

[TheZookie007]

I like his rant for one reason only: The asshole Congress is playing with itself, pretending that two trillion bucks in cuts, falling entirely on working Americans, NONE OF WHOM ARE THEIR DONORS, will make any difference, while ignoring the billionaires, ALL OF WHOM ARE THEIR DONORS, pay no significant taxes...

I don't really remember the last time a sitting president took on Congress, eyeball to eyeball, and kicked their asses, but Truman did it in 1948.

So long as any part of the law-writing system refuses to recognize the need for increased taxes, nothing is going to change.

So very sad, yet so very true.

[3deroticer]

cartoon 1952

[JJ]

Howdy there Mr. Doody ?

[DruulEmpire]

You did that already on March 9.

[TheZookie007]

On the "Funny Politics" thread, a picture of Rick Perry was put up which led to a brief discussion of him being a good guy because he joined the ROTC. Which leaves me shaking my head over this:

The twin balls of decorative fluff known as the cheerleader’s Pom-pons aptly sum up the depth of Rick Perry’s alleged Christian family values. On one hand, we have a man invested in and profiting off of what the AFA called “obscene pornography” and a man who allowed a man twice found guilty of sexual harassment to remain in his government position. On the other hand, this same man calls himself a “family-values” Christian, and nary a peep comes from the Right to call him out.

It’s not about whether you agree with conservative values or not (but this is often how the conservatives distract people from calling their leaders out, by making it about the alleged values rather than the failure to uphold said values), but rather whether or not the candidate actually stands for what they say they stand for.

If Rick Perry doesn’t walk the talk of a conservative Christian, just what does Rick Perry stand for?

[pedonbio]

On the "Funny Politics" thread, a picture of Rick Perry was put up which led to a brief discussion of him being a good guy because he joined the ROTC. Which leaves me shaking my head over this:

The short answer is that Perry has never had any core value that he stood by except for self-promotion. I imagine that the greatest crisis of his life happened during the Gardasil decision four years ago when the payoff from the drug manufacturer conflicted with the pretended "Family Values" political line. For Perry it was no problem--He went for the money.

That being said, I should confess that I am related to a sizeable fraction of the Democrats of Haskell County, Texas. Perry always describes himself as being from Paint Creek. Paint Creek is in Haskell County, and Perry's father was a county commissioner (Democratic) of Haskell County. In his five statewide races Haskell County voted for Perry once, in 2002, by a very narrow margin. During Tom DeLay's criminal "redistricting", Haskell County was permanently marginalized and the citizens of Haskell accurately hold Perry responsible. A couple of national newspapers have done articles about Perry's problematic relationship with the people who know him best.

[rtpoe]

So President Obama gave the final order on the hit to take out Bin Laden - after Dubya had given up on the task.

And his careful, measured, patient approach helped get Qaddafi finally removed from power (for all intents and purposes) - which Saint Reagan was unable to accomplish.

So of course he gets no respect from the Republicans.....

[pedonbio]

So President Obama gave the final order on the hit to take out Bin Laden - after Dubya had given up on the task.

And his careful, measured, patient approach helped get Qaddafi finally removed from power (for all intents and purposes) - which Saint Reagan was unable to accomplish.

So of course he gets no respect from the Republicans.....

It is interesting and relaxing to have a president who actually follows what has been historic American foreign policy: No "doctrines", as few commitments as necessary, and warfare as a last resort. Pragmatism has always been the best policy.

[rtpoe]

He's doing it again. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) has it in for FEMA. After a massive tornado destroyed Joplin MO earlier this year, Cantor wanted to cut the budget to FEMA. Now, with FEMA's coffers drained below $800 million by nine "Billion Dollar Disasters" so far this year, not including the billions in damage caused by Irene, he wants any additional funds given to FEMA to be offset by spending cuts elsewhere before he will agree to them.

He is an ass.

Look, Cantor, stop using extortion like this. FEMA is already having to pull money from projects at the sites of earlier disasters. And don't think that states can handle it. The whole point of federal disaster aid in the first place is that individual states CANNOT cope with major disasters. Disasters, for one thing, don't stop at state lines. For another, many states have these things called "balanced budget requirements". They do NOT have substantial emergency funds available. And unlike the federal government, they CANNOT "print" more money.

Can you really look the people of Vermont in the eye, the people whose towns are completely cut off by flood damage to the point where supplies have to be brought in by helicopter, and say you want to hold up disaster relief funds for silly political reasons?

And by the way, leave the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration alone, too. It may seem that the NOAA is one of those little agencies that can easily have their budgets trimmed. But I ask you this, Mr. Cantor. Where do you think your local news gets its weather reports from? The TV weatherman isn't out there looking at clouds and holding up a finger to check the wind. The National Weather Service is one part of the NOAA. Who do you think tracks hurricanes and issues the path predictions and storm surge warnings? The NOAA...

[3deroticer]

http://www.truth-out.org/three-charts-email-your-right-wing-brother-law/1314626142

[MrHHH]

http://www.truth-out.org/three-charts-email-your-right-wing-brother-law/1314626142

Those are some interesting charts. Seeing jobs being created has been a huge relief, but it's strange that they didn't cover Bush's entire presidency.

Also, the budget deficit chart only goes up to 2010, and "Estimates" what the deficit will be in the future. Estimations shouldn't be there.

As to the spending chart, I had heard that Congress hadn't passed a budget in years.

[pedonbio]

As to the spending chart, I had heard that Congress hadn't passed a budget in years.

This is a lie that all sides of the budget debate (except, ironically, Bernie Sanders, the only true socialist in congress) have used at various times to instill panic in someone, usually campaign donors. It is one of those things that is literally true and totally false. Congress used to cobble together one huge, complex "must-pass" budget. Recall, if you will, that the Constitution requires that all money bills originate in the House of Representatives; one of the recent examples that the Tea Party representatives suffer from the Dunning-Kruger Effect was their demand that the president send them a budget to consider.

In any case, the last time Congress passed a single-document budget was Clinton's first term. When Newt Gingrich took over as Speaker of the House in 1995, he thought he could score more political points by doing the budget piecemeal, and started the current practice of working up separate budgets for various departments. This practice has resulted in anywhere from five to 17 separate "budgets" coming out of the House in a given year. This reached even greater heights of fiscal absurdity during the Bush Administration when Bush refused to submit requests for military funding to the regular budget process and instead insisted on funding his wars with "supplemental" appropriations which went directly onto debt.

[SamV]

^^One has to remember when dealing with anything as big and complex as the US economy as a whole most current stated economic metrics are only guesstimates based on incomplete or partial data, gathered though various "snapshot" methods. Any current stated figures of unemployment, spending, borrowing, etc. are often revised weeks, months, or sometimes even years after the fact. As an example consider that the depth of GDP contraction in the last economic downturn was adjusted downward by a whole percentage point last month to -5.1 % based on an analysis of much more detailed and recent collected data. 

So when charting things in the economy over time it is not unusual the most reliable statistics might be from years ago.

[3deroticer]

That was one of the reason why I took joy knowing the GOP had control of the adminstration for 8 years. So one could have a better idea if this policy is good or not. Even some GOP members saw Bush a financial failures for the nation. But that is soon forgotten.

[pedonbio]

^^One has to remember when dealing with anything as big and complex as the US economy as a whole most current stated economic metrics are only guesstimates based on incomplete or partial data, gathered though various "snapshot" methods. Any current stated figures of unemployment, spending, borrowing, etc. are often revised weeks, months, or sometimes even years after the fact. As an example consider that the depth of GDP contraction in the last economic downturn was adjusted downward by a whole percentage point last month to -5.1 % based on an analysis of much more detailed and recent collected data. 

So when charting things in the economy over time it is not unusual the most reliable statistics might be from years ago.

Always good to keep in mind. Likewise, the basis for estimates get changed occasionally to be less "alarming". My favorite (and worst) example are unemployment numbers. Many economists believe that the massive government spending to prepare for World War Two was what "really" ended the Great Depression in the United States, since the actual measurement of unemployment didn't start until 1938 and at that time it was almost 20%. The problem is that presidents of both parties have leaned on their Secretaries of Labor to modify the methodology for measuring unemplyment to make the figures seem lower at the end of their terms. The problem with doing this is that it is now grossly deceptive, and not a very good warning. For example, if unemployment were still measured the same was it was in 1938, it would have been 19% in mid-2009, and it would be a bit over 18% now.

[Bad Kitty]

Remember the good old days, well not that old, when we could complain about high taxes, and intern blow jobs?

I much prefer that to worrying about whether the dollar will continue to have any international value to speak of, or whether the government will stay solvent.

[SamV]

^ It might interest you to know despite the screwed up 3 party rule we have in the US Congress, and the mess these imbeciles have created over the course of the last several months since being seated in the current Congress, short term US Treasury notes have been trading in the market at such low rates that those who purchase them are in effect paying the US Treasury to take their money.

So these "investors" (who are both foreign and domestic) in that regard are using Treasury Notes as a safe haven for their cash until the other investment markets (stock, bond, commodities, etc.) stabilize and they feel confident enough to return to them.

[pedonbio]

^ It might interest you to know despite the screwed up 3 party rule we have in the US Congress, and the mess these imbeciles have created over the course of the last several months since being seated in the current Congress, short term US Treasury notes have been trading in the market at such low rates that those who purchase them are in effect paying the US Treasury to take their money.

So these "investors" (who are both foreign and domestic) in that regard are using Treasury Notes as a safe haven for their cash until the other investment markets (stock, bond, commodities, etc.) stabilize and they feel confident enough to return to them.

I find it intriguing that the same people who are screaming that the shy is falling (Rupert Murdoch, anyone?) are putting their bucks where their mouths say not to.

[TheZookie007]

...and that the people with the most resources are busy trying to make policies that would ensure that they continue to gain access to even more of those resources, while the people with the least resources cheer them on from the sidelines.

I don't know if I've already posted this video, but the rapper asks a pertinent question: "What If the Tea Party Was Black?"

[luvdemwhoppers]

I've avoided this thread cus I don't like talking politics or religion . What is there to like? Being an elected official
gets you 30 seconds on the 6 o'clock news and endless hours on cspan (if you've noticed, in an empty room). Politicians talk. that's
what they do. they debate, and talk more and then have something else to say. They try to discredit the other party. that's why this country I love is in the toilet, on a reef with a broken back. The system dun broke, k? these pukes are interested in self, not the good of all. Today politicans are Hollywood wanna b's. This country was born thru revolution. Then we had a Civil War........we might need a dose of that Civil
$hit again.

[DruulEmpire]

Mmm, yeah, but for centuries a lot of politicians have always been blowhards.  Long before any of them caught the C-SPAN bug, they were high on their own powers of oration.  What's more, some of those blowhards were even useful.  And Civil War ... I don't know about you, but I have ancestors who fought on the Union side, so for me it's a little more serious than just some punchline.  Who would secede from whom?  States can rattle sabers all they like, but they'd be pretty miserable without each other.  I guess you'd like a politicianless state, period -- but I wouldn't even know how to get such a thing, let alone keep it.  In the final assessment, if you hate politicians, you should probably just ignore them.  My TV hasn't worked in over a month and I'm in no hurry to fix it.  It's kind of a liberating feeling.

[luvdemwhoppers]

^i get all the news I need from the weather report. There where good  vibes when JFK and Bobby were around. There was a sence of "
were're gonna get this right" Those two, besides Abe, are my favs. They talked, we, for the most part, believed. Now? special interests,
oil, pay offs, dirty dealings, boiler rooms. Thanks for your reply Druuel. I"m gone from this thread cause I have nothing left to say.

[DruulEmpire]

I hear you, I'm a ch1ld of Apollo -- recently I blew a stripper's mind showing her Youtube of a hammer and a falcon feather falling to the surface of the airless Moon at the same time -- and it blows my own mind that once upon a time a President could actually navigate us OUT of nuclear war and now just one can blunder us into two or three.  Everything's up in the air, we have no sense of what we're supposed to be ABOUT anymore, "we gotta make the money and grow the economy" is "vision" these days when I thought that was just supposed to be regular business and self-esteem, and anything as basic as maintaining the domestic social contract is suddenly supposed to be so controversial, and for no other reason than, like you say, the moneyed interests.  I suspect you have more to say, but it takes guts to say "Enough" -- rock probably hasn't had anything new to say since the Eagles sang "Hotel California."  But I'll keep an eye open for you in the M thread.

[pedonbio]

.

[TheZookie007]

Rocking the muttonchop sideburns AND a bolo tie? Isaac Asimov was da shiznit

[Bad Kitty]

adams, asimov, clarke, heinlein... collectively take up 2 book shelves here next to me

politics... is when tailless monkeys fling poo at each other until someone is determined to be more correct by smell.

[Palomine]

adams, asimov, clarke, heinlein... collectively take up 2 book shelves here next to me

I'm no longer surprised (but still always very pleased) to discover that someone with whom I have a common interest in one area (say, voluptuous women) also shares some other interests with me (say, old-school science fiction authors). Thus, the attached photo is of the '2 book shelves here next to me' ...the photo taken with the webcam on my PC.

Kitty, you should just be able to make out the foot and a half+ of Heinlein hardcovers at the start of the second shelf (they actually begin at the far end of the shelf above). I've also got a few dozen Heinlein paperbacks, though they're in another bookcase. Plenty of Asimov (who I met once at a book signing) and Clarke, etc... too.

[pedonbio]

I'm no longer surprised (but still always very pleased) to discover that someone with whom I have a common interest in one area (say, voluptuous women) also shares some other interests with me (say, old-school science fiction authors). Thus, the attached photo is of the '2 book shelves here next to me' ...the photo taken with the webcam on my PC.

Kitty, you should just be able to make out the foot and a half+ of Heinlein hardcovers at the start of the second shelf (they actually begin at the far end of the shelf above). I've also got a few dozen Heinlein paperbacks, though they're in another bookcase. Plenty of Asimov (who I met once at a book signing) and Clarke, etc... too.

I knew Frank Herbert in his last few years --Yes, it was hard to avoid genuflecting-- and was surprised to learn of his passionate interest in Pakistan. He was sad a lot of the time because whenever we sent aid to Pakistan, it was through a contractor who used big machines. He was convinced that made us few friends; but if we hired several thousand Pakistanis to build a dam or road by hand, we would make lots of friends and have much less corruption.

Speaking of old friends, a lot of the people in the 1970s porn business were old sci-fi fans. Milton Luros, who owned American Art Enterprises, had done a bunch of art for sci-fi mags in the 1940s and 1950s. One of his chief editors, Larry Shaw, pretty much started sci-fi fandom in the late 1940s. Larry was exactly 20 years older than me; on the rare occasions we spent any time together, surrounded by the Roberta Pedons and Darlene Englishs, we talked about Heinlein, Asimov, and Clarke.

[DruulEmpire]

politics... is when tailless monkeys fling poo at each other until someone is determined to be more correct by smell.

Ahhhhh, would it were that simple!

[pedonbio]

Ahhhhh, would it were that simple!

...and that harmless.

[Bad Kitty]

I'm no longer surprised (but still always very pleased) to discover that someone with whom I have a common interest in one area (say, voluptuous women) also shares some other interests with me (say, old-school science fiction authors). Thus, the attached photo is of the '2 book shelves here next to me' ...the photo taken with the webcam on my PC.

Kitty, you should just be able to make out the foot and a half+ of Heinlein hardcovers at the start of the second shelf (they actually begin at the far end of the shelf above). I've also got a few dozen Heinlein paperbacks, though they're in another bookcase. Plenty of Asimov (who I met once at a book signing) and Clarke, etc... too.

I need more bookcases. I only have one medium sized one, and as a result I have about 3 more bookcases worth of books in storage bins.

You're probably wise for getting hardbacks, I always seem to get paperbacks, but I imagine that will come back to haunt me in 30-40 years. Some of the older books are already a little yellowed.

I can't say it's all sci fi though, there's plenty of horror too. and some textbooks that I found interesting enough to keep, and a reference section, philosophy, psychology, occult, theoretical physics, and classical literature.

I think my book collecting slowed down with the blossoming of the internet. but I still like to curl up with actual paper now and then

Ahhhhh, would it were that simple!

...and that harmless.

It is nearly that simple. politicians approach politics with rhetoric and spin and mud slinging, a catchy phrase is worth a thousand sound reasonable points. They don't cater to reason, they cater to prejudices, fears, discontent, preconceived biases, etc. And people in the general populace approach politics with far more preconception than open mindedness. Actually I wrote a research essay a long time ago comparing the way people psychologically relate to politics with the way they relate psychologically to religion. Some are more "politically religious" than others, but it's a sobering comparison.

but no, it's not nearly so harmless. in terms of harmfulness, the reality is somewhat more like Lord of the Flies.

I rather enjoy the company of many, perhaps even 'most' other humans. But many of them are not terribly clever, or at least not as clever as they believe. Which in and of itself is fine, but it does enable 'nonsense logic' to flourish. And when you compound that with how humanity functions in large groups (where lowest common denominators come into play) it's not a pretty sight.
/misanthropy

[rtpoe]

Been thinking lately....

You know how they (i.e. the press) refers to "Red" (Republican) and "Blue" (Democratic) states based on how they've voted in the past few presidential elections?

Take a look at the map, when you color it by county (see attached). Despite all the red counties, states like Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Nevada, and Oregon went blue in 2008. That's because those counties are have enough population in them to dominate the state.

What does this mean? Or, what do I think it means? It's the decades-old "Urban vs. Rural" debate. Who will dominate the country, cities or the countryside? The latter covers more area, but the former has more people....

I feel that cities tend towards the liberal side of things simply out of the diversity of the population. In cities, you are much more likely to need government funding for schools, infrastructure, and welfare programs. You are going to be more open-minded about social issues, simply because you are exposed to a greater variety of people over the course of the day. To put it one way, in a big city diversity means Christian, Jew, Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu. Out in the countryside, diversity means Episcopalian, Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian....

I think it comes into play in the issue of gun regulation. In cities, the population density means that you are more likely to be "in range" of any gun, and therefore more at risk in any shooting. So it makes some sense that urban liberals will be more in favor of gun regulations. Out in farm country, you can fire off an entire magazine on your property and there's a good chance no one will even hear you!

What do you think? Is there something to this hypothesis, or am I just full of hot air?

Just trying to get us back on topic....

[pedonbio]

rtpoe, I assume you won't be angry if I mention that this is not an original idea...

You might start with Robert Wagner and the Rise of Urban Liberalism. Among us hard-core urban liberals we call it the "15-foot rule". If you sleep within 15 linear feet of a non-related person, there's a 90% chance you vote Democratic in presidential elections. If you sleep more than 150 linear feet from a non-related person, there's a 90% chance you vote Republican in presidential elections.

Homelessness is pretty abstract to people who never meet homeless folks. Senator Henry Jackson used to eat lunch at the Space Needle restaurant in Seattle. At some point after lunch he would observe that he could see all the votes he needed to carry the state.

Of course, your map says a lot of other things, like counties in contact with water vote Democratic. Or former slave states vote Republican.

What is genuinely alarming about your map is the colors--Note that the counties' voting preferences are reflected in the intensity of the colors. Very few pastels.