MERGED: The Politics Thread

[gOOber]

I'll admit I voted for GWB. I'm not proud of it, but I did it.
What concerns me now is that this country is at a crossroads, an election that could not be more critical, we have the opportunity to elect this rare once-in-a-lifetime candidate, and we are on the verge of making the same mistake we made in 2000 and 2004.

People, please set aside your partisan biases. Loony lefties and fringe righties alike. Every time this country has reached a dangerous crossroads in the past, we have been led out of the darkness by a president who could not only lead, but inspire. Reagan comes to mind as the most recent. With the cold war threatening civilization, we rose up as a country together as stood behind President Reagan when he said, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." I still get goose bumps when I hear this replayed. It stirs my patriotism, invigorates my spirit, and inspires me to be the best American I can be.

Now, once again, we are at a crossroads. This time, it is Islamic Extremism, OPEC gangsters, out of control debt, recession and rampant inflation, etc. Once again, the powers that be have given us an individual to lead us and inspire and involve us. Once again, I am stirred to forget my old partisan biases. I am ready to be part of a united America that puts the unfortunate years of GWB behind us.

Barack Obama is a rare and remarkable human being. He is one who has the capacity, like Reagan, to not only lead but to inspire a new generation of Americans. It is a gift that such a person has been given to us, but we have to have the courage to put him in office. We have to have the courage to admit the missteps of our foreign policy and economic policy. We have to set aside our differences and elect this rare natural leader who can reassert our leadership in the world, not only as the world's most powerful nation and superpower, but as the morally centered country that for so long served as a beacon of light to those nations and peoples who would aspire to such greatness.

In summary, this old-guard disenchanted Republican thinks that Barack Obama can bring us back together as proud Americans.

 <img src="http://forum.bearchive.com/files/659652-BitterReformedRednecks.jpg">

Mod edit November 6, 2010: this thread has been merged from three separate threads, all of which eventually devolved to serve the same general purpose... thus, there was no point in keeping them separate. At the request of a user, the thread has also been generically renamed... the original thread titles (for posts within the separate threads) are still intact for each post. -Pal

[H_cups]

I HONESTLY don't know who to vote for.


Goober...we all thought the same thing about Melton.

[TheZookie007]

A man who can look at a situation and change the habits of a lifetime for the greater good...such a man is to be hailed and congratulated.

Welcome to the Rebel Forces, gOOber.

[DruulEmpire]

I have now officially seen everything.

I like to think that any open honest confession counts for something around here -- and this is a prime example.  Congratulations.

[notty]

I wish I could muster some enthusiasm about this election.  I tried drinking the Obama koolaid, but it tasted like shit, so I spewed it from my mouth.  Doubly grating is the fact that I spend my days around college students who wouldn't know their heads from their assholes, yet are absolutely convinced Obama is the solution to all our problems.  The guy is a career politician, no more and no less.

*sigh*

The last time I felt any excitement about a candidate, it was Al Gore in 2000.  Since then, I've been voting against certain individuals rather voting for the people I embrace, because there hasn't been anyone to embrace.  It's a sad state of affairs.

That said, I couldn't possibly vote for a McCain/Palin ticket.  Too much crazy going on there.  I guess it's 3rd party for me this year, or perhaps I'll just scribble my name in...

[SwitcherX]

I live in Chicago and I can say without any doubt that Obama never did anything while he was in the state legislature.  In fact, I can't even remember hearing this guy's name until the guy he was running against for the senate dropped out.  I keep hearing abuot how he was a community organizer or activist or whatever.  In Chicago all that means is that he started crying (usually about racism) until whoever he was crying to gave him money to shut him up.  If you cut him open and looked inside all you would find is media hype.  McCain is useless too.

 

[Dearc]

I'm really glad someone else had the courage to do this.

I too, am tired of the 'messianic' style Obama has portrayed, but upon further examination, he's so shallow.  Community organizer is a qualification to be President?  Please.

McCain isn't exactly the wisest choice, either.  I think he's too in-bed with lobbyists and corporate types.

So I'm voting for the issues that matter to me.  I'm a proud gun owner, and I understand Obama has voted (and lost) for every anti-gun law that appeared in front of him.  He may not suceed as President, but I bet he'll try to push through gun laws that'll make it extremely difficult to own anything above a .22.  I also believe he'll let Osama Bin Laden go, for the sake of pacifism.  I heard an excerpt from his interview with Bill O'Reilly (I can't stand him, either), and basically, I understood that Bin Laden will be allowed to remain free.

I don't have any REAL issues with McCain; I tolerate a certain extent.  I think Palin is fantastic except for her stance on abortion.  I was in the Army, Military Police, and my mother, and both older sisters are sexual assault victims.  I KNOW I have the right to speak out on this issue.  I've dealt with it within the family, and on the job.  Abortion for sexual assault victims should be available, with no questions asked.  Palin holds the opinion of only if the mother's life is in danger.  She also seems to hold G.W. Bush in high regards; not cool but, whatever.

Since I'm also a die-hard atheist, it seems both sides cater the religious vote, Reps more than Dems.  The Faith Based Initiatives Program is one of the worst abominations in the history of Executive Decisions.  The "wall between church and state" has been widdled down so bad, there are times I wondered (esp before Nov 2004) if I should fear for my safety, and I live near Minneapolis, the 2nd most liberal city in the Union, next to San Fransisco.

All the other issues:  high taxes, multiple price increases, lousy immigration policy, weak economy, worsening relation with Russia, bolder China, and any others worth mentioning, will have to be dealt with as the President sees fit.  It also matters whom is in their respective Cabinets.  Colin Powell was the crown jewel, and Pres. Bush took a big shit on him.

I'm voting for McCain this year.  In 2000, a few months after I got out of the Army, I voted for Gore; Kerry in 2004.  I'm not ashamed of it, since they both lost.  When the shit hits the fan, it'll be either religious crusaders or leftist feminazis, I've got plenty of ammo.

[pedonbio]

Well, notty, I'm sorry you feel that way. When I was young I fell in love with JFK, and that ended badly. But over the years I've decided that he wasn't bad as presidents go.

First, m'dear, campaigns mean nothing. Really. Go back to old microfilms of the New York Times and read about the 1932 campaign. Better yet, go back to 1860 and old microfilms of the New York Tribune. Abe Lincoln was, after all, a lifelong politician.

Second, what is the guy's style of management? Lincoln, FDR, and JFK all had the same style: Surround yourself with really bright people. When an issue comes up, sit down and watch the smart guys fight it out. The closest the world ever came to nuclear war was the Cuban Missile Crisis of October, 1962. The solution was both ingenious and bizarre, and it was all Kennedy's, except that he pieced it together after watching very bright people scream at each other for ten days.

I look for these things in a president:

1) The ability to admit error and change course;
2) The ability to articulate both a clear policy position and a vision of a future;
3) The ability to laugh at himself;
4) The ability to listen to people he doesn't like.

I've given up on ever seeing another JFK. American politics doesn't have much time for guys who win Pulitzer Prizes any more. I do wish Gore had run this time, though.

Third, the problem with recent presidents is that the following qualities don't work for long-term national survival:

1) Using the office to settle old scores;
2) Making snap decisions and sticking with them;
3) Never admitting error;
4) Surrounding himself with people who think he's great.

[pedonbio]

Incidentally, notty, everything that you, Switcher, and Dearc wrote about Obama was also written and said of JFK during the 1960 campaign. It was wrong then. I suspect it is wrong now.

There is a kicker, an added benefit for me, and, I think, for gOOber, too. Race has been a sad and painful aspect of public life in America for all my life. Electing Obama will go a long, long way to putting that to bed.

[3deroticer]

I wouldn't vote for Obama because of his color, but if he does get elected, it would let all the youngster see a color man as a president and that would be a mighty vision for people of all color to see.

I would add 2 more criteria of a great president and that would be his knowledge of history, and his ability to write his own book. GWB wrote his own book and I knew then I didn't want him as President. This will be the first election that a Republican Candidate doesn't have an autobiography of himself and his vision for the world as a leader.

With Palin we have only 6 weeks to know more about her, as she set herself to be interview with rightwing journalist in the next coming month. Charlie Gibson interview didn't do well for her and she wont make that mistake again.

McCain hasn't disclose his medical record to outside journalist other than his loyalist, and what we do know about his skin condition is that statistically he had live 8 of his 10 years that he is expected to live with his condition. Even then, if he undergo a recurrence that he would be incapacitated to serve out his term under stricter treatment.

I cried in my blankie hearing about a redneck Obama conversion.

If Obama become our next president and he turn our economy around, and your still not happy, then please send money to me, enough to send you into another country and pretend your job got sent over seas. With my help we can imagine your still living in a Republican world.

That being said, neither party can find a candidate that isn't owned by the corporation, until we end legalized bribery(lobbyist).

[onionwriter]

I don't disagree with anything said here. You may certainly disagree with me, but this is why I wanted Hillary. I would not have minded McCain. He is a fine man. I was honestly split on my vote.

To me, what it now comes down to is if the president dies. Who do you want backing him up? Who do you want a heartbeat away?

[turbo]

I'll put my post here since it concerns Barack Obama.

Forum sells 'Obama Waffles' with racial stereotype

    Read all about it!!  

[SwitcherX]

Quote:
onionwriter said:
To me, what it now comes down to is if the president dies. Who do you want backing him up? Who do you want a heartbeat away?

It comes down to who has bought and paid for each of them.

i've been reading www.antiwar.com lately.  Not much about the candidates seems to get past Justin Raimondo.

[3deroticer]

My goodness, Alan Greenspan now bashing McCain tax plan?

Maybe 8 years is enough to wake up America?

It took Germany 12 years after Hitler came into power.

[3deroticer]

Quote:
turbo said:
I'll put my post here since it concerns Barack Obama.

Forum sells 'Obama Waffles' with racial stereotype

    Read all about it!!  

My brother-in-law is related to the inventor of the waffle maker, and I haven't got his take on this, but I bet this would piss him off. He serve Waffles every weekend and holiday morning.

This summit sponsored by the lobbying arm of the Family Research Council. Family Research Council name sound so cozy, and warm. Makes you think of old fashion noose swinging from tree and a toasted marshmallow off of burning effigy in the front yard.

[TheZookie007]

Quote:
pedonbio: There is a kicker, an added benefit for me, and, I think, for gOOber, too. Race has been a sad and painful aspect of public life in America for all my life. Electing Obama will go a long, long way to putting that to bed.

True. But I should caution everyone. No one should vote for ANY person because he or she happens to be the same race as they. I can tell you one thing for sure: white or black or biracial, the man is going to be president of everyone, and his policies will affect everyone. We've voted for 44 or so white men as president over the past two hundred plus years, and among them we've had some greats, some middle-of-the-roaders, and some atrocious abominations. Ultimately, their race did not matter, but their policies did.

I agree with you, though, pedonbio, when you say that all the slams against JFK are being leveled against Obama, and ultimately to the same effect, I hope.

[Hugeboobfan]

Quote:
Dearc said:
I also believe he'll let Osama Bin Laden go, for the sake of pacifism.  I heard an excerpt from his interview with Bill O'Reilly (I can't stand him, either), and basically, I understood that Bin Laden will be allowed to remain free.

Wha?  You must have watched a different interview than the one I saw.

From the interview:

Quote:
O'REILLY: So you are going to — again, more diplomacy, and we need it, absolutely, trying to convince the Pakistan government to take a more aggressive approach. If you don't, we're going to pull…

OBAMA: And what I will do is, if we have bin Laden in our sights...

O'REILLY: Yes.

OBAMA: ...we target him, and we knock him out.

O'REILLY: But everybody would do that. I mean, that would be the biggest win Bush could have.

OBAMA: Of course.

O'REILLY: If you send ground troops in, all hell breaks loose.

OBAMA: We can't — we can't have — and nobody talked about some full-blown invasion of Pakistan, but the simple point that I made was we've got to put more pressure on Pakistan to do what they need to do.

[TheZookie007]

Thank you for that, hugeboobfan! I wish people would take the time to actually listen and get the facts about whichever candidate they support, instead of being the conduit of lies, innuendo and outright fabrications. Next thing you know, someone will come here and say that Obama's a crypto-Muslim or something -- which actually is an insult to Muslims since it implies that anyone who is a Muslim is automatically a terrorist who wants to bring down our government. We've had eight years of a so-called Christian in power, and look at how bad things are in this country. I don't care what religion* the POTUS is as long as he or she does what we sent him or her to Washington to do.

* and for the record, Scientology ain't a religion, so sorry Tom Cruise but I ain't gonna vote for you!

[pedonbio]

Quote:
3deroticer said:
My goodness, Alan Greenspan now bashing McCain tax plan?

I'd like to cheer, but I'm old and you'll find that the older someone is, the less likely they are to like Greenspan. Back during the 1980s Greenspan was a shill-for-hire for the crooks like Charles Keating who were looting S&Ls.

Oh, so was McCain!

[TheZookie007]

Anyone who thinks that Obama is the second coming is of course wrong -- but of the two alternatives, he is the better one. Better equipped to deal with the challenges that face us (and most of those challenges were brought upon us by eight years of this current administration I might add), better equipped to deal with foreign leaders who are rooting for us, better equipped to deal with foreign leaders who hate our guts, and most of all, he will provide a fresh start for our country. He has no magic wand to wave, no one does, and the first two years of his administration are going to be the hardest of almost any president's in living memory, but I have confidence that he can do it.

[Dearc]

Quote:
Hugeboobfan said:

Quote:
Dearc said:
I also believe he'll let Osama Bin Laden go, for the sake of pacifism.  I heard an excerpt from his interview with Bill O'Reilly (I can't stand him, either), and basically, I understood that Bin Laden will be allowed to remain free.

Wha?  You must have watched a different interview than the one I saw.

From the interview:

Quote:
O'REILLY: So you are going to — again, more diplomacy, and we need it, absolutely, trying to convince the Pakistan government to take a more aggressive approach. If you don't, we're going to pull…

OBAMA: And what I will do is, if we have bin Laden in our sights...

O'REILLY: Yes.

OBAMA: ...we target him, and we knock him out.

O'REILLY: But everybody would do that. I mean, that would be the biggest win Bush could have.

OBAMA: Of course.

O'REILLY: If you send ground troops in, all hell breaks loose.

OBAMA: We can't — we can't have — and nobody talked about some full-blown invasion of Pakistan, but the simple point that I made was we've got to put more pressure on Pakistan to do what they need to do.

I thought it made it clear, just an excerpt, and it was hearsay.  No, I didn't catch the entire interview before my comment.  I listened to it later.  Like I also said, I've no real love for O'Reilly either.  So wherever I heard this from, I was obviously short-changed, or short-changing myself.  I apologize.

I admit, I was diagnosed with a near-fatal case of foot-in-mouth disease.  

[3deroticer]

http://vimeo.com/1679097?pg=embed&sec=1679097

Obama the second coming?

better look again at this clip, and think again.

To each his own, but I am pragmatic on the faith healing thing.

[SwitcherX]

Obama's Bra 54 Double "D"

[TheZookie007]

Quote:
3deroticer said:
http://vimeo.com/1679097?pg=embed&sec=1679097

Obama the second coming?

I said he AIN'T the second coming

[notty]

Quote:
pedonbio said:
Well, notty, I'm sorry you feel that way.

If McCain is still leading in the polls come November, I would probably vote for Obama out of self-preservation.  Otherwise, not happening.

[3deroticer]

McCain refer to Obama that he think he is the second coming, and yet there are more religious undertone coming from Palin than anywhere else. I would classify Palin's church as extremist. That they tout that anyone who don't believes as they do will go to hell. That they bless this Iraq war and that they are on god path in doing the right thing in Iraq. There will always be war, but I believe that Jesus would have no part in it. If anything war is the absence of God the creator, but the entity of the destroyer. Going to war is admittance of failure to keep peace. This holier than thou attitude is where we get rampant disregard to laws that have been place democratically by the people. Disregard to hearings, cooperation of an ongoing investigation, accountability of expenditure, and blatant discordance to the constitution.

I rather have Obama, a constitutional scholar, top of his class in law school, as our new leaders, than a religious zealot that interpret god's law from the old testament, whenever it become convenient.

[mofoapoo]

I understand people's distrust in politicians.  For all we know, Obama could very well eat the heart of humans on a daily basis to gain their courage.  Their delicious courage...

But regardless, the facts present themselves.  Mccain has a history of counterdicting himself, and Palin has proven to abuse her powers.  They both do the whole avoid media, avoid questions routine.

Obama, on the other hand, was excepted into a high end law school, but before he did that, he took his Columbia degree AND MOVED TO SOUTHERN CHICAGO.  He was able to get into harvard, but instead of doing that right away, he set aside 3 years of his life to helping people.  Come on.  People are just being a bit too cynical these days.  You gotta take what you can get.

[MasterDragonfly]

Last night cherri asked me what the significance is regarding saying that Palin is "a heartbeat away".  So I went on to explain the concerns regarding McCain's health.

She then pointed out to me that arguably Biden is in the same position of "a heartbeat away".  While Obama certainly doesn't appear to have any health issues, it's undeniable that there would be a lot of people upset at having a black president, and as such, he could end up suffering from lead poisoning.  As did JFK.  

The optimist in me says this would never happen.  The pessimist in me would suggest such an event could lead to considerable civil unrest, to understate it.

Which just now brings me to another thought:  If the above is a possibility, and if McCain's health is indeed at risk, would it be more apropos to compare Palin to Biden, within the context of presuming that one or the other would end up taking the helm?

[TheZookie007]

Of course it would. Obama & McCain = presidential candidates, whereas Biden & Palin = vice-presidential candidates. Apples to apples, and oranges to oranges.

[SwitcherX]

Quote:
mofoapoo said:Obama, on the other hand, was excepted into a high end law school, but before he did that, he took his Columbia degree AND MOVED TO SOUTHERN CHICAGO.  He was able to get into harvard, but instead of doing that right away, he set aside 3 years of his life to helping people.  Come on.  People are just being a bit too cynical these days.  You gotta take what you can get.

Nobody, other than a priest sent there by the church, moves to the south side of Chicago to help people unless there's money involved.

[MasterDragonfly]

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:
Of course it would. Obama & McCain = presidential candidates, whereas Biden & Palin = vice-presidential candidates. Apples to apples, and oranges to oranges.

Agreed.

Now if we could only get the media (and the candidates) to do likewise.

[TheZookie007]

Quote:
SwitcherX said:

Quote:
mofoapoo said:Obama, on the other hand, was excepted into a high end law school, but before he did that, he took his Columbia degree AND MOVED TO SOUTHERN CHICAGO.  He was able to get into harvard, but instead of doing that right away, he set aside 3 years of his life to helping people.  Come on.  People are just being a bit too cynical these days.  You gotta take what you can get.

Nobody, other than a priest sent there by the church, moves to the south side of Chicago to help people unless there's money involved.

And you know this how?

[Hugeboobfan]

Quote:
MasterDragonfly said:

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:
Of course it would. Obama & McCain = presidential candidates, whereas Biden & Palin = vice-presidential candidates. Apples to apples, and oranges to oranges.

Agreed.

Now if we could only get the media (and the candidates) to do likewise.

It truly is the Palin-McCain ticket now.  Nobody cares about McCain; all his supporters are fired up about Palin.  They don't know much about her, they just like her.  It's the GW Bush "seems like someone I'd like to hang out with so I think I'll vote for them" disease that affects a good portion of american voters.

[Dearc]

One thing I've noticed not said here, is that many politicians say things, get elected, and 'forget' to do what they said they would.  Anyone remember "Read my lips-NO NEW TAXES!"?

[Hugeboobfan]

Quote:
Dearc said:
One thing I've noticed not said here, is that many politicians say things, get elected, and 'forget' to do what they said they would.  Anyone remember "Read my lips-NO NEW TAXES!"?

In that case, when McCain gets elected, I hope he "forgets" to do everything that he's said he's going to do.