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Lightfoot

  • Wandering Artist
  • 1962
    • Pulse
Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« on: September 18, 2009, 03:08:50 AM »
When I started posting artwork on the internet, I was 20, stupid, and thought I could remain anonymous and have control over whatever I posted.  Well, it's ten years later, and I've had time to think about things.

I've been thinking about altering my responsibilities next fall, giving up the big site, and reducing down to only the comics I can do continuously (meaning 1-2), possibly moving to keenspace or something.  The thing is, if either were something new, it would most likely be PG, and be something more mainstream.  If it were PG, then a normal person would have no reason not to use their real name, or allow their family or friends to know about it, right?

That's the thing I worry about, I've created this mass of possibly unacceptable stuff.  I know I can't be alone in this feeling.  I mean I haven't literally created porn, but it's more complicated than just some topless pictures.

I've been told before I have a unique style, and I honestly worry that no one could see my artwork elsewhere and not be able to identify it.  If I wasn't an artists I wouldn't worry about it at all.  Does anyone else consider this?  Or do you not care who knows what you do online?  Or am I over-reacting?  I know that I can go just about anywhere on the internet and wouldn't be able to find anyone who knows "Lightfoot", but the internet is more about finding something you're looking for, not passively bumping into something.


I just don't think most people think about these things enough when they start posting things on the internet.  My options are:
  • To accept it's too late, and continue secretly making comics anonymously, no matter which comics, or what they are about.
  • Continue using "Lightfoot" but tell people I know about, accidently creating an easy path back to any old stuff that still exists.
  • Use my real name and tell people I know about it, decreasing the link back to the old stuff, but having no anonymity if the full connection was made between me and "Lightfoot".
  • Use another alias, knowing someone could still identify my artwork even if not my name.
  • Try to change my style enough I couldn't be recognized.

I'm really not sure yet what I want to do.  I had once considered doing a new PG comic, and then also Pulse, assuming I could keep Pulse secret.  I mean, could an author have a PG comic and a comic like Pulse, both in completely separate places, and not have anyone notice the connection, even with different names given as the author?

Another thought was to restart Pulse, possibly making it PG (and lowering the boob scale on all).  Or just giving up and continuing to do the current Pulse secretly.  I mean I'd like to do Pulse for many reasons, but it has many flaws, I may have gone overboard with it, and it would be easily traced back to the original version unless I made massive changes.

I think the thing is that I'm tired of doing something I wouldn't want anyone I know to know about.  My brother knows nothing about what I post online, and he's been emailing me about people on craigslist looking for comic artists.  They're all people who seem more like they're really wanting a friend, or aren't at all serious, but I think he thinks that I've given up on the idea.  I actually started doing comics on the internet because I thought I needed practice, but maybe I didn't make the best choice.  I've gotten offers before to draw pornographic comics from websites or small press companies, but I declined.  I think that in many situations, there's either porn, or there's something PG.  If you do something more than PG, it's put together with porn.  It limits what people think of you, and it limits who will link to you, who will talk to you, and most people won't be happy.  Some will want you to move up to porn, others will want the amount of story usually only found in a PG item.

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Saburo_X

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 07:03:02 AM »
It's definitely something that anyone that wants to go into mainstream material with their art has to deal with. I think that, at the end of the day, what matters is not so much what you can get recognized for, as what will make you happy. If doing the comics you do now will make you happy, then staying the course will be the way to go. If you want more, then yes, it sadly is too late to take back all that's been uploaded -we need only look at inflation artist CattyN's somewhat failing crusade to remove all traces of his identity. You'd really just have to adjust accordingly and be prepared for the eventual fallout that would come from having the two sides to you discovered.

But, doing BE stuff doesn't necessarily preclude you from doing other things. Partially because it's probably one of the more "vanilla" fetishes out there. It's actually kind of an odd coincidence that you posted this when you did, as recently I discovered that it seems that Portalcomic is doing some work for DC now, on Wonder Woman. So it's definitely possible to have this kind of stuff in your history and make it big.

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Djoser

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2009, 06:25:47 PM »
wow, You're about to make a really big decision, lightfoot. I hope you made the one that suits best for you as an artist and thet is more comfortable as part of a society.
Welcome to the internet, where men are men, women are men, and childr3n are the FBI

If it hurts, it means that you're still living

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Lightfoot

  • Wandering Artist
  • 1962
    • Pulse
Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2009, 04:49:57 AM »
It's definitely something that anyone that wants to go into mainstream material with their art has to deal with. I think that, at the end of the day, what matters is not so much what you can get recognized for, as what will make you happy. If doing the comics you do now will make you happy, then staying the course will be the way to go. If you want more, then yes, it sadly is too late to take back all that's been uploaded -we need only look at inflation artist CattyN's somewhat failing crusade to remove all traces of his identity. You'd really just have to adjust accordingly and be prepared for the eventual fallout that would come from having the two sides to you discovered.

But, doing BE stuff doesn't necessarily preclude you from doing other things. Partially because it's probably one of the more "vanilla" fetishes out there. It's actually kind of an odd coincidence that you posted this when you did, as recently I discovered that it seems that Portalcomic is doing some work for DC now, on Wonder Woman. So it's definitely possible to have this kind of stuff in your history and make it big.

Well, I honestly doubt I'm good enough to get a job at a big comic company, or that I'll ever be.  I think I more realistic goal would just be to have some of my comics printed at all (even through Lulu), or to make a little money off of it.  I mean I remember when Wapsi Square started, my site was 1.2 years old or so and I linked to this "new comic".

I'd probably try to take down the majority of my stuff I had control over, but I already know it would be impossible to eliminate everything.  Time would probably do that better than I could.  There are a lot of artists who were once posting BE art who left and there isn't much of theirs around anymore.  How much exists from Akiokid, or Spanish Ninja Vega, or Sickboy, or Foreshadow, or Bonhomme, or Litch, or Tom Taylor?  I also don't know that I'd want to delete the pages about my comics I've created at the ftf10 wiki.  Although if I did Pulse again, many could just be altered to reflect the new reality (as I imagine Annie would be BE'd once even in a PG version).

I suspect there are four likely options, I do Pulse the way it is somewhere free, I do a new PG comic I've been thinking about, I start over with Pulse (either PG or not), or I do the other comic for a few years then add Pulse as a second comic if I think there aren't many traces of the old left.

I could always change my mind later.  I kind of feel like it's something I have to try for a while.  I don't really know what action I'll take about DA, etc.  I'll probably either use the name "Lightfoot", or another alias.  You can only use your real name once, and then can't change your mind.

There's a while to think about it though.  I feel like I should stick around for the 10th anniversary and to try to resolve at least some of the comics, maybe get through Xom's origin, finish that Lockheart chapter, obviously finish MM.  Try to draw some pictures I owe people.

I can help the others to find or make places for their stuff if they want to continue, and we can stop freeloading on Snoopy's webspace.

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arus

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 03:58:49 AM »
I doodle a bit in my free time, and even share things now and then (or even do the odd request), and while I'm no pro nor have I done anything exceptionally risque, I've pretty much come to the decision that if I put it out there, I don't care who sees it. I hope more would like than dislike, but part of art is also opinion. Anyway, I also don't sign my stuff (part of me feels like it detracts from the work and those looking to steal could either crop or photoshop) and I've even jumped between a few aliases over the years, but that's more been an issue of saying goodbye to past phases in my life.

So, I'll basically mirror the sentiment of just doing what you would like to do. A lot of people have claimed to be jealous of my average talents over the years, and even if you manage to create something that raises someone's brow in a negative way, I don't think that feeling vanishes. They've more than likely had plenty of times where they could put thoughts or fantasies to paper and just couldn't to a meaningful degree. The fact that you can, however, doesn't make it bad, and art isn't exactly one of those situations where "can, but shouldn't!" is an issue like misuse of a gun and whatnot.

There's nothing stopping you from using Lightfoot for one and your real name for the other, either. Pen Names aren't just for writing, and if Mark Twain can do it with Samuel Clemens and still be a respected author, I don't see why nobody else could. Might you lose a fan or an offend someone's sensibilities? Possibly. Might you can some more or even inspiration? Just as possible. Hell, my biggest issue is just being consistent and motivated, and while I tell myself I never want to be driven by any fans, I'd be lying if I said they're never ever a factor.

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Reaver

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 03:22:37 AM »
I would say, first determine what you want to do and then make choices that go along those lines. If you want to go mainstream or PG, retiring Lightfoot or having it go on a sabbatical. You can either start using your real name or an alias, even a fake real name. Remember lots of the great old writer never used their real names. You do have a great and unique style and I think changing it for any reason other you you wanting to try something new, well would make me sad  ;) . While you cannot eliminate your presence from the dark corners of the internet, you can eliminate a lot of it and the rest will disappear with time.

It does sound like you want to at least scale back what you have out there and what is available. Maybe that is a first step, spring cleaning in a way.

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Litch

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 07:45:56 AM »
I know your feeling very very well.

I indeed have my own showreel / content profile online and have struggled in interviews where people have plainly asked me "how much art experience do I have" and when I give a rough estimate, they reply "Then why is so little on your showreel website". Though it's more than that. If I can play devil's advocate, I'd say you've created something that you're proud of, and if you're anything like me, you've told friends and family that the days you spent on it were somewhere between 'wasted' and 'research'. That can be a difficult story to continue.

My two thoughts on the matter are this:

1.) The two identities cannot be linked. To establish credibility as an artist you need to shed the Lightfoot tagline to remove the boob stigma.

2.) To push forward with the Lightfoot identity you may need to establish its relevance and reasoning. If you can explain to people why you draw what you do, without using the term "I like boobies" then you're on your way. My own justification for returning to BE is purely that it helps my skills in (all aspects of) multimedia. Art, morphing, video work... Making items with a BE twist will always garner attention from people on the internet. For me at least, knowing people will see the work I do, even if it is porn, is a big incentive to do it.

As someone who has followed a lot of your work, I honestly feel that a lot of your stories contain BE, but do not revolve around it (except maybe "PeEVEed"). You've got universal stories there - if (and it's a big if) you can stand recreating the work to be PG, then I think you should pursue that. Maybe even try to getting it printed. IMO they are good stories on their own merits and do not need the massive BE to still be told. You've got stories of characters who gain powers which results in physical transformations, but in a simple move from making the lead go from "C" to "EEE" - instead to going "A" to "D", you've instantly got an "acceptable" story right there.
In addition: Doom!

http://thebegrove.com

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darkgodhammer

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 08:50:10 PM »
The Internet never forgets. Something you drew will eventually find you it's only a matter of time. Even if you radically change your style you won't be able to erase every quirk. The voice of your text can out you too. All those people you listed have a bullseye painted on their backs.

Skill trumps everything. If you're good at drawing, or storytelling, people will forgive your kinks. You want examples? http://girlyyy.com/  http://www.studiofoglio.com/xeno.html  http://www.menagea3.net/ http://www.libertymeadows.com/  http://adamwarren.deviantart.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Moulton_Marston

That list could go on a lot longer and given enough research include almost every artist ever. Anyone who gets in your face about what you draw is not your target audience.

Make what you want. If you get outed just laugh it off. If you don't react like a little bitch it won't be fun. That was Catty N's biggest mistake. Now people know he'll have a meltdown so it's fun every time they mess with him.

Shame is something you choose to feel.  If you refuse to be shamed people won't know what to do. Don't let other people decide how you live your life.



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Lightfoot

  • Wandering Artist
  • 1962
    • Pulse
Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 05:53:57 AM »
I indeed have my own showreel / content profile online and have struggled in interviews where people have plainly asked me "how much art experience do I have" and when I give a rough estimate, they reply "Then why is so little on your showreel website". Though it's more than that. If I can play devil's advocate, I'd say you've created something that you're proud of, and if you're anything like me, you've told friends and family that the days you spent on it were somewhere between 'wasted' and 'research'. That can be a difficult story to continue.

I can agree with that.  I think other than some contests at the SnowBuni forums I can't think of anything of mine anywhere that's "safe".  The Adept comics at DrunkDuck would almost be the best option.  I have a lot of stuff that isn't objectionable, but it's all mixed together.

1.) The two identities cannot be linked. To establish credibility as an artist you need to shed the Lightfoot tagline to remove the boob stigma.

Other than which of the two comics to do, this is probably my biggest dilemma.

What if I do Pulse v2?  It doesn't seem like I'd be able to hide at least all of the gift art on DA to "Lightfoot" about another Annie/Pulse.  In some ways, I think using Lightfoot again might help to replace old items.  If I made a vague mention about there being a previous version of Pulse, many gift art items could be seen as exaggerations.  Most aren't much larger than v2 Annie.

I also think my stuff won't be completely boob-free, just toned down.   ...or comparatively returning to what I originally drew as "big boobs".  I'd say no nudity, very rare BE, reasonable amounts of fan-service, and what the average person would call big breasts.

That also would only work if I had no forum or comments.  Otherwise many people might accidently call me "Lightfoot".

And leading current readers to the new place would cause additional risks, but it would be inevitable anyway.  I mean current readers know the title of each of the comic options.

2.) To push forward with the Lightfoot identity you may need to establish its relevance and reasoning. If you can explain to people why you draw what you do, without using the term "I like boobies" then you're on your way. My own justification for returning to BE is purely that it helps my skills in (all aspects of) multimedia. Art, morphing, video work... Making items with a BE twist will always garner attention from people on the internet. For me at least, knowing people will see the work I do, even if it is porn, is a big incentive to do it.

I actually don't think what I've done is quite porn, maybe just adult content.

I think one thing is that long-term comics and BE don't really go together.  It's always been a struggle to blend those two ideas without the characters becoming an implausible size, or having the comic just be about the character's breasts.

Maybe I'll come back to BE eventually, but I want to do something else.  I feel like it's been ten years and there are a lot of things I've always wanted to do.  I've wanted to have a more general comic, I've always wondered what some of the free comic hosts are like, I've always wanted do a one-comic site, I've always wanted to try to get into Keenspot, and I wonder how much a comic site can make with advertising (probably less than I expect).

I might change my mind later, but I'm certain this is the direction I want to go in.  Even if I'm still doing a comic secretly that I don't want anyone to know about.  It'll at least be something I won't mind people watching me make.

As someone who has followed a lot of your work, I honestly feel that a lot of your stories contain BE, but do not revolve around it (except maybe "PeEVEed"). You've got universal stories there - if (and it's a big if) you can stand recreating the work to be PG, then I think you should pursue that. Maybe even try to getting it printed. IMO they are good stories on their own merits and do not need the massive BE to still be told. You've got stories of characters who gain powers which results in physical transformations, but in a simple move from making the lead go from "C" to "EEE" - instead to going "A" to "D", you've instantly got an "acceptable" story right there.

I suspect either option will be PG-13 instead of PG, I'll just be using fan-service instead of nudity.  I think v2 Annie might be a little bigger than an EEE, but I get your point.

I think that I'd probably rather do Pulse v2, but that the space comic was created after I decided to make this change, and it's exactly what seems to fit.  Either one I plan to work on a while offline before posting any pages, so it's possible I'll make some amount of both and then decide.

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Lightfoot

  • Wandering Artist
  • 1962
    • Pulse
Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2009, 06:08:54 AM »
The Internet never forgets. Something you drew will eventually find you it's only a matter of time. Even if you radically change your style you won't be able to erase every quirk. The voice of your text can out you too. All those people you listed have a bullseye painted on their backs.

I think it's not so much that I want to hide everything I've done, but that I want to hide want percentage of things I've made that are adult or BE related.  I could stand seeing the random picture, if it seemed like a rare example.

I'm not sure yet what I plan to do about DA, but I might still use the same account (unless I decide to go by another name), just eliminating some of the pictures.

There are a number of places I know about that have pictures of mine that I have no control over.  It's mostly fan-art.  There's pictures at rule34, the Process forum, WWOEC forum, the HentaiGroup forums, and some other places I'm sure.  There's even another copy of Missing Materia pages that can be found on Google.  It was made as an example by the guy who made the comic php script, and I probably have to remind him about it.

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The Litch Addendum

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2009, 09:44:51 AM »
There are a number of places I know about that have pictures of mine that I have no control over.  It's mostly fan-art.  There's pictures at rule34, the Process forum, WWOEC forum, the HentaiGroup forums, and some other places I'm sure.  There's even another copy of Missing Materia pages that can be found on Google.  It was made as an example by the guy who made the comic php script, and I probably have to remind him about it.

Personally I don't think the "sins of internet past" should be much of a concern. The only reason I can think of anyone dragging it out would be if you were wildly successful (especially if you change your moniker). To which you can reply "Well, it may have started that way, but I have since refined (amongst other things) my style and methods".
http://begrove.com

It's better than not good!

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auto_reply

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2009, 02:34:01 AM »
For what it is worth, you certainly aren't the first artist to cross the proverbial road.  You may find your answers in Clean Cartoonists' Dirty Drawings.
*You have reached the Automated Moderation System. In the event of an actual breast expansion emergency, the Attention Signal you just heard would have been followed by official information, news or instructions.*

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2010, 06:57:42 PM »
no reason you can't just split off a 'legit' handle to do the 'clean' stuff.

If you want to check out yourself (by real name) try pipl.com - it's one place you can do a search going back several decades.

Forgot about the guy who does Girl Genius doing the 'erotic'  stuff...;)


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pedonbio

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2010, 06:53:09 PM »
I don't have any certainties; but I certainly agree with auto_reply that you are not the first.

I have a friend who had to deal with a similar-but-opposite situation: He grew up as a Christian fundie and did a lot of art for outfits like Youth for Christ. Over a period of years, he became an unconcerned agnostic, but remained a cartoonist and went full-time professional. He just went ahead, didn't try to change his identity, and when anyone raised the point, he referred to his "mis-spent youth". But when you're over sixty, you don't much give a shit what anybody outside your close circle cares about. Or maybe it's the two Pulitzers he's won.
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.

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Bigbean

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Re: Do you ever worry about what you have online?
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2011, 09:16:30 AM »
The Internet never forgets. Something you drew will eventually find you it's only a matter of time. Even if you radically change your style you won't be able to erase every quirk. The voice of your text can out you too. All those people you listed have a bullseye painted on their backs.

Skill trumps everything. If you're good at drawing, or storytelling, people will forgive your kinks. You want examples? http://girlyyy.com/  http://www.studiofoglio.com/xeno.html  http://www.menagea3.net/ http://www.libertymeadows.com/  http://adamwarren.deviantart.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Moulton_Marston

That list could go on a lot longer and given enough research include almost every artist ever. Anyone who gets in your face about what you draw is not your target audience.

Make what you want. If you get outed just laugh it off. If you don't react like a little bitch it won't be fun. That was Catty N's biggest mistake. Now people know he'll have a meltdown so it's fun every time they mess with him.

Shame is something you choose to feel.  If you refuse to be shamed people won't know what to do. Don't let other people decide how you live your life.

You're right.

I think some people feel shame because they grew up thinking this stuff was evil. I did. Not a puritan anymore, thank god. But honesty is still trendy. I think another reason is because in general people like to achieve and be able to share what they achieve with others. If you can't because you're afraid to disclose your true identity, then it prevents you from fully enjoying your life and your accomplishments.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 09:19:05 AM by Bigbean »