Re: Met a new partner and she is obssesd.
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2016, 02:01:58 PM »

OK, is far more effective to ingest the herbs or directing applying them and absorbed by the skin?

It depends on the action of the herbs. For example, something like Goat's Rue acts directly on the pituitary gland, so rubbing it on the skin will not do much. On the other hand, if someone has a progesterone deficiency, they make creams that work, but they need to be applied to specific areas to be most effective. Fenugreek can work in both ways, but is most effective taken orally (at least in my case).

The topicals I use vary depending on what I have on hand. I use flaxseed oil every now and then because I know it has worked for others. I also use a lot of cocoa butter with vitamin E to help minimize stretch marks and improve elasticity. Finally, I have experimented with creams that have volufiline, an ingredient that helps to plump the subcutaneous fat. They worked, but they're hard to find with the right concentration (5% volufiline works best).

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bignatslover

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Re: Met a new partner and she is obssesd.
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2016, 01:01:46 PM »
The topicals I use vary depending on what I have on hand. I use flaxseed oil every now and then because I know it has worked for others. I also use a lot of cocoa butter with vitamin E to help minimize stretch marks and improve elasticity. Finally, I have experimented with creams that have volufiline, an ingredient that helps to plump the subcutaneous fat. They worked, but they're hard to find with the right concentration (5% volufiline works best).
Your diligence with studying all of this alchemy is very commendable!  I think a lot of people want to learn more about this, but after trying to read a few published medical journals on hormones, receptors, up-regulation, down-regulation, plant-based hormones, signaling pathways, gondadotropins and feedback loops, their eyes start to glaze over and they just say "I give up!"

Surprisingly, even endocrinologists don't know a lot about this stuff.  They are so busy treating thyroid patients, diabetics, hypertensives and bone disease that they don't really delve into breast tissue.  If asked, they will provide only a lame generalization such as "it's important to maintain proper diet and exercise to restore the normal balance of hormones in the body."  Yeah doc, okay, whatever - but how does titty meat grow, dammit???!!  Turns out they don't know.

I am attaching one of the few articles relevant to the matter, called Breast size in relation to endogenous hormone levels.  If you can get through the whole thing and half-way understand it, you're doing better than I am!

cycles and growth
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2016, 01:51:12 PM »
I am attaching one of the few articles relevant to the matter, called Breast size in relation to endogenous hormone levels.  If you can get through the whole thing and half-way understand it, you're doing better than I am!

Thanks for sharing!!!

This article shows why it's critical to be in touch with one's cycles if you want NBE to work. The critical days 5-10 and 18-23 mentioned in the article showed the most growth among those on the pill. For those of us who are not on the pill, these are times we want to exploit! These peak days do change, depending on the length of one's cycle, however! The key to learning the cycle is to take your temperature using a basal body thermometer every morning at the same time and chart these shifts, at least to collect some baseline data. There are programs and apps that are out there that will use predictive analytics over time to give a good sense of when ovulation will hit.

Let's look at some of the article's findings:

"One was that IGF-1 was the strongest determinant of breast size during the follicular phase among never and former users of oral contraceptives." I am having fine results as is, but if I ever had any issues with this, I'd take the supplement L-arginine to help.

"Prolactin levels were also associated with larger breast sizes among non- users in the follicular phase." Goat's rue has a direct, though gentle, effect on prolactin levels.

"During the luteal phase, women with high 17B-estradiol and progesterone levels had larger breast sizes." Licorice root (which I just added to my program with excellent results), can help raise B-estroidiol.

"Higher testosterone levels in the luteal phase were related to smaller breast sizes, and this is in line with androgens' suppressing mammary growth." Hence the importance of an anti-androgen/pro-aromatase like peony.


The unfortunate side of things is that there will be some shrinkage once the cycle ends. In my case, last cycle, I lost about .5", but I had a net gain of .6" despite that loss. So far in this cycle, I have already exceeded my peak measurement from last cycle by 3/8th of an inch and that measurement was taken a couple days ago (day 18 of the cycle).

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bignatslover

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Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2016, 02:38:24 PM »
Let's look at some of the article's findings
Great summary there!  As I figured, your understanding of these things is better than most people's, and you also have a gift of distilling verbose wording into something succinct and quotable (you'd do great working in media!).

So far in this cycle, I have ...
Yep, it's true that nobody else pays much attention to the four phases (follicular phase, ovulation phase, luteal phase and red tide time!).  I suspect partly because we live in a world of oversimplification, and timing hormonal application to phases is at odds with reductionist thinking.  But I think you're on to something.

By the way, if your periods are consistent month-to-month, consider yourself very blessed.  According to the University of California, 30% of women today do not have regular periods, if they even have them at all.

One other random thought - if you ever changed your mind about lactating, that can be a real fast track to booby growth.  I have heard of some women who - having never been pregnant - tried the prescription drugs Metoclopramide (Reglan), Domperidone (Motilium), or Sulpiride (Eglonyl, Dolmatil, Sulpitil, Sulparex, Equemote) and their breasts responded with very significant growth.  Some models like Kristina Milan respond enthusiastically to prolactin - the last two times she had a kid, her breasts looked like they doubled in size.   :o

Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2016, 06:05:29 PM »
By the way, if your periods are consistent month-to-month, consider yourself very blessed.  According to the University of California, 30% of women today do not have regular periods, if they even have them at all.

Mine are not quite regular either. That's why I started charting using an app (there are a few good ones). The more data it gets, the more accurately it can predict things. I know this helps since those days listed in the article are ideals. They're easier to pinpoint with tracking.

One other random thought - if you ever changed your mind about lactating, that can be a real fast track to booby growth.  Some models like Kristina Milan respond enthusiastically to prolactin - the last two times she had a kid, her breasts looked like they doubled in size.   

There's another model, Maximoom who advocates lactation. I would rather not go there since I saw friends lose just about everything after their kids stopped feeding. Maintaining it could also pose issues. I'd hate to be constantly pumping or leaking... my job takes too much time to worry about such things  :P. That being said, I've been taking Goat's Rue to stimulate prolactin... albeit gently. I have heard of women re-lactating by taking too much. Also, high doses can become toxic, especially when used long term. I see the fairly small dose I take as a kind of added boost that works in harmony with the other supplements.

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bignatslover

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Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2016, 09:42:58 PM »
Mine are not quite regular either. That's why I started charting using an app (there are a few good ones). The more data it gets, the more accurately it can predict things.
I loved reading this part.  With determination and calculation, problems in life can be tamed.  I am reminded of Matt Damon's line in THE MARTIAN when, upon realizing the incredible odds he faced, he stated, "I'm gonna have to science the shit out of this."

lactation. I would rather not go there since I saw friends lose just about everything after their kids stopped feeding.
Good point.  Given the possibility of post lactation shrinkage, I shall perish the thought of milk factory promotion!

I definitely hope you keep us abreast (pardon the pun) of all of your work.  I think it is great!

Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2016, 01:27:38 AM »
"I'm gonna have to science the shit out of this."
I definitely hope you keep us abreast (pardon the pun) of all of your work.  I think it is great!

I love that quote... might have to add it to my profile along with some pics. I am apparently animated .gif deficient as I could get it to work on one site, but not elsewhere. 

I will keep everyone informed. Been having an especially intense few days... hoping it's a growth spurt in progress  ;).

Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2016, 05:45:45 PM »
Thought I'd share a quick update. Things have been rolling along quite well. Made some adjustments to doses this cycle that I think had a big effect. As I mentioned earlier, we've been experimenting with licorice root extract. This is both a potent anti-androgen (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19515171), and can affect estradiol levels (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00216-011-5061-9). It needs to be used with caution, however. It's recommended to use it for no more than 7 days in a row without a break because it can raise blood pressure. 

A new cycle started today. Now the hard part begins... waiting for the "red tide" to cease so I can see how much I truly gained. There is always some degree of "false" growth due to normal cyclic swelling, so I don't measure until day 6. I hate the anticipation, but I'm hoping for the best!

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bignatslover

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Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2016, 10:52:16 AM »
Thought I'd share a quick update. Things have been rolling along quite well. Made some adjustments to doses this cycle that I think had a big effect. As I mentioned earlier, we've been experimenting with licorice root extract. This is both a potent anti-androgen (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19515171), and can affect estradiol levels (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00216-011-5061-9). It needs to be used with caution, however. It's recommended to use it for no more than 7 days in a row without a break because it can raise blood pressure. 

A new cycle started today. Now the hard part begins... waiting for the "red tide" to cease so I can see how much I truly gained. There is always some degree of "false" growth due to normal cyclic swelling, so I don't measure until day 6. I hate the anticipation, but I'm hoping for the best!
Heya!  Good stuff there.  Thanks for the update.  As for licorice, I read that the blood pressure effect is entirely due to increased renal sodium retention, so as long as you've got enough incoming potassium (baked potatoes, yogurt, avocados, bananas, strawberries or any citrus fruit all provide more than any supplements, due to the FDA's weird limit on potassium supplements having a forced ceiling of 99mg), you may be able to give it two weeks straight, unless you are hypertensive to begin with. 

*waves to the red tide* Hi there, Aunt Flo!  As much as we're grateful for your visit, it's probably time to go!   8)

Yes I hope you are rewarded for all of your effort, and once you're in the next phase (follicular) you notice mighty booby size gains, and when you get up out of bed in the morning, they feel like heavy watermelons slamming against your rib cage.  Ain't nothing hotter!!


Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2016, 08:44:18 PM »
Heya!  Good stuff there.  Thanks for the update.  As for licorice, I read that the blood pressure effect is entirely due to increased renal sodium retention, so as long as you've got enough incoming potassium (baked potatoes, yogurt, avocados, bananas, strawberries or any citrus fruit all provide more than any supplements, due to the FDA's weird limit on potassium supplements having a forced ceiling of 99mg), you may be able to give it two weeks straight, unless you are hypertensive to begin with. 

Good point. I'm playing to safe now, just to see how I adapt to it. I take it for three days on and then two days off. If there's no ill effects going forward, I'll change it up.

Yes I hope you are rewarded for all of your effort, and once you're in the next phase (follicular) you notice mighty booby size gains, and when you get up out of bed in the morning, they feel like heavy watermelons slamming against your rib cage.  Ain't nothing hotter!!

I happen to agree  ;)... at this stage, they're not close to watermelon size, but I am noticing their weight a lot more than I used to, which is surprisingly enjoyable.

For the sake of curiosity, I broke my rule about measuring... it's cycle day 3, and my measurements continue to climb. They're up 0.3" from the last time I measured  :o. Again, I get a more accurate sense of where things are around day 5 or 6 of the cycle. Almost there.... I'm dying to see where things end up and will share more details.

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bignatslover

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Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2016, 10:26:22 AM »
That's fantastic news.  .3" per month = 3.6" over 12 months.  3.6" of pure new bustline is the dream of every man for his lady!!!!

Oh, if only Mark Eden were still around, he'd be jealous of your knowledge.

Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2016, 02:22:55 PM »
That's fantastic news.  .3" per month = 3.6" over 12 months.  3.6" of pure new bustline is the dream of every man for his lady!!!!

I think I might have been unclear! I measured about 5-7 days prior, so this .3" would be new growth in a much shorter span of time. I have to insert my usual disclaimer here. I already had a degree of hypertrophy/ongoing growth so I'm not a normal case. I'm adding gasoline to what was a rather slow burning fire.  8)

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bignatslover

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Re: cycles and growth
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2016, 10:02:17 AM »
I measured about 5-7 days prior, so this .3" would be new growth in a much shorter span of time. I have to insert my usual disclaimer here. I already had a degree of hypertrophy/ongoing growth so I'm not a normal case. I'm adding gasoline to what was a rather slow burning fire.  8)
Well I am impressed, and I think the gasoline is 100 octane racing fuel!   8)

I think the best part is how disciplined you have been in this.  Diligent note-taking and plan-following will make it happen, as long as your body continues to cooperate. I think more women wish they could experiment the way you are, but they don't have (a) the determination, (b) the resources, (c) the cooperating body and (d) your attention to detail.

I would imagine your cooking style to very precise as well.  Whereas someone would tell you "Oh I just grabbed a small handful of flour and a half-splash of vanilla", you would say "Wait, I think it would be better here if you stated it as 3.44 ounces of flour and 1/2 teaspoon of vanilla extract, which if you are using metric would be 97.52 grams of flour and 2.46 milliliters of vanilla extract."   :)

Keep on keepin' on!!!

some results
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2016, 03:02:01 PM »
I would imagine your cooking style to very precise as well.  Whereas someone would tell you "Oh I just grabbed a small handful of flour and a half-splash of vanilla", you would say "Wait, I think it would be better here if you stated it as 3.44 ounces of flour and 1/2 teaspoon of vanilla extract, which if you are using metric would be 97.52 grams of flour and 2.46 milliliters of vanilla extract." 

Yes... that is exactly true! I'm sure I'd be diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder, but in my line of work, this attention to detail is seen as an asset  8).

I decided to measure today now that the "red tide" has ceased. I might see a bit more shrinkage, but I doubt it will be anything statistically significant.

For the curious, here's where things are. For the record, I measure throughout the cycle, and only record the difference between my starting measurement and the day 5/6 measurement when they're past any "time of the month" swelling. In my first cycle doing the experiment, I gained .6". This past cycle, it looks like I gained .8". Not as huge a jump as I would have expected given the aches and pains I had, but every bit counts  ;). That makes a net gain of 1.4 inches so far. I can't complain!

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TheZookie007

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Re: Met a new partner and she is obssesd.
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2016, 03:32:30 AM »
That is truly great news. After all, every inch counts.
"When your city is French in origin, and your Mayor and Governor are Democrats, and those most affected by this natural disaster are Black, don't expect much help from Bush." -- Left of Y'all (and the link works now too! )