Post by: Adama on June 20, 2008, 12:03:29 PM
Post by: JH_ on June 21, 2008, 12:07:22 PM
Post by: DruulEmpire on June 21, 2008, 12:50:37 PM
I've had to make comments myself, but I've tried squeezing them into my titles or signatures, or simply giving them as prefaces to the actual episode. I find this unfortunately necessary when you're collaborating but then your collaborator starts making confounding assertions which fairly beg to be addressed.
I would vote for this feature -- except I wonder if it could be taken one step further, as a guarantee that any new "nothing but comment" episodes be stricken from the Addventure, with the advice "Hey, dude, there are proper channels for this now -- and by the way, we've always had e-mail addresses and a Forum by which to discuss stuff offstage."
Post by: Adama on June 21, 2008, 03:10:51 PM
I would have thought more people would want to be able to receive comments on episodes, considering how story authors (on (prohibited O) and other places) are constantly crying out for feedback on their stories.
By the way, if the ability to comment _was_ added, I would monitor the comments too so I could remove any garbage or spam (or flamewars!).
When the "add options to existing episodes" question has arisen before, at least one person objected because it could lead to storylines being taken off in directions that the original authors didn't intend.
So far less than 15 people have voted in this poll, I hope more will appear!
Post by: DruulEmpire on June 21, 2008, 03:35:46 PM
Anyhow, Mr. Greene, I hope you will get to avail YOURSELF of stats such as average episode length -- it might be worth enforcing a dead minimum someday. Episodes with titles like "djgp" and full text like "hjdl" and options like "pfgh" and "jmdf" get on my nerves.
Post by: JH_ on June 21, 2008, 04:03:00 PM
Quote:
Adama said:
When the "add options to existing episodes" question has arisen before, at least one person objected because it could lead to storylines being taken off in directions that the original authors didn't intend.
So long as the continuation doesn't break continuity, I don't see a problem with that, especially as it won't compromise any of the options that the author originally provided. Personally, I love it when a writer continues an episode of mine in a direction which, while totally logical, is one that I'd never anticipated.
Post by: Catfish on June 22, 2008, 02:05:52 AM
Quote:
Adama said:
When the "add options to existing episodes" question has arisen before, at least one person objected because it could lead to storylines being taken off in directions that the original authors didn't intend.
What?!
If an author wouldn't want someone potentially taking a story line in an unwanted direction, than the BEAddventure is perhaps the worst possible place to post the beginning of a story.
Well, okay, maybe spray paint on a subway station wall would be worse. Or putting it on the paper tablecloth at an Italian restaurant where they give crayons to all the little tykes.
But the whole point of the BEAddventure is being able to continue story lines that have been posted by other people, in whatever fashion one chooses. (Well, hopefully a coherent fashion, at least.)
At any rate, the best thing about the ability to add new options is that it should put an end to those tedious "something else" options.
Post by: BEginner on June 22, 2008, 04:18:43 AM
Rock on man, very glad to hear that you're adding somethng, and appreciate you asking us
Okay, so let's ponder how some of these could be used/abused.
Comments - Pro's include: Ability to get feedback on your posts, or share collaboration notes without including sych things in the story (I am guilty of this a lot). Lots of people would likely use this for requests for plot, when they may not have time or interest in adding themselves, but enjoy the story. Cons: Not too many if you are serious about deleting flames.
Tags - I've asked you for tihs one in the past. I think this could be a nice feature, Pros: If everyone used it consistently, it could really head off the 'hey, let's see what this thread is about, the title looks interesting...oh man, that's nasty.' types of events (these happen at least a couple times a week :P ) cons: I really don't anticipate people being consistent using these tags. If this were added, I'd suggest that there be a voting method to let other people add tags. That way you'd get multiple people's opinions on what's in an episode.
Adding options - Pros: This sounds sweet! I'd love to be able to go back to episode 2 and do a new option, for example. This has the most open possibilities. Cons: How many options are you expecting to be able to add? It can't be limitless can it? If it's not limitless, then we'll be back to the same problem eventually. If it is, then I'm trying to wrap my head around how radically different the addventure would be. I guess that isn't a con, it just feels like the most drastic change to the addventure we know and love.
Anyway...cheers
Post by: JH_ on June 22, 2008, 02:47:48 PM
Otherwise I very much agree with what you've said.
Post by: Bonkers on June 23, 2008, 05:01:29 PM
Bonkers
Post by: Chuck on June 23, 2008, 05:13:10 PM
Post by: Adama on June 23, 2008, 11:30:06 PM
Post by: Catfish on June 24, 2008, 12:01:33 AM
Post by: William on June 24, 2008, 12:58:26 AM
Post by: JH_ on June 24, 2008, 03:22:30 AM
Post by: Chuck on June 24, 2008, 06:44:44 PM
1) The ability to add and view comments on episodes.
Pure greatness.
2) Content tags on episodes (ff, gts, etc).
Look, I know some people hate seeing certain kinds of episodes, and it *would* help me avoid stuff like Ranma 1/2 and skinsuits. BUT I have stumbled upon some awesome stuff just by clicking on the episode number and title, without knowing exactly what I was going to get. In fact Madison would not have been created if I wasn't clicking on stuff at random. The net result of tags will be people clicking on less episodes, or only on the kind of episodes they are used to. Less eps clicked = less storylines read and less creativity and spontenaity.
3) The ability to add additional options to existing episodes.
Doesn't "something else" cover this? What if an author finishes a long cohesive story, and someone decides to add a dumb episode to the finished work? This is going to cause some people a lot of frustration. Part of the fun in a collaborative enterprise like the BEAddventure is using other people's ideas, and having their contributions to your story **77** you to (maybe) go in a direction you might not have wanted to go. End result: less collaboration, as the original writer ignores the new writer's contribution and forces the story to go where he or she wanted in the first place. Other person gets frustrated and stops contributing. It will happen.
4) Automatic author statistics (average episode length, etc.)
This would be interesting...maybe in the future. It's got almost no support right now, but I would be in favor of doing it later.
5) The ability to vote for favorite episodes.
Kind of problematic. Can you vote for your own? Can you vote for eps that branch off from your own? Can you vote for your own character or situation, used by others? Could I go through the whole Addventure, and find every ep where Madison is mentioned, and vote for those eps? This could turn into a huge ego trip for some authors.
6) Show backlink sources in target episodes (episode 2 would have quite a lot).
I'd love to see this one happen, but there is no support for it right now it seems. I think it's a big missing piece of the entire "backlinking" dealie. Oh well.
That was my 2¢, as I said.
Post by: Adama on June 24, 2008, 08:36:55 PM
Quote:This can just as easily happen in the current Addventure, the only way to prevent it being giving all your episodes only a single option (which your collaborator would take). The only writer I know of who's done that regularly is Dabbler.
Chuck said:
Doesn't "something else" cover this? What if an author finishes a long cohesive story, and someone decides to add a dumb episode to the finished work? This is going to cause some people a lot of frustration. Part of the fun in a collaborative enterprise like the BEAddventure is using other people's ideas, and having their contributions to your story **77** you to (maybe) go in a direction you might not have wanted to go. End result: less collaboration, as the original writer ignores the new writer's contribution and forces the story to go where he or she wanted in the first place. Other person gets frustrated and stops contributing. It will happen.
Quote:All right, I admit that nobody's actually asked for this one before...
5) The ability to vote for favorite episodes.
Kind of problematic. Can you vote for your own? Can you vote for eps that branch off from your own? Can you vote for your own character or situation, used by others? Could I go through the whole Addventure, and find every ep where Madison is mentioned, and vote for those eps? This could turn into a huge ego trip for some authors.
Post by: DruulEmpire on June 25, 2008, 10:31:03 AM
Post by: BEginner on June 27, 2008, 06:15:52 PM
You could do 1/3 of each feature for this anniversary, 1/3 for the 20 year and finish all three up in 20 years.
Post by: Third_I on June 30, 2008, 02:47:13 PM
It's just that. I think additional options would mess up the entire Addventure. And all of our wonderful restart threads would be rendered pointless. And it could lead to people adding episodes just to comment of another episode.
I think no one would use the same tags unless it was a checklist kind of thing that people could use.
I think that comments would allow for authors to feel appreciated when people could compliment their episodes, and people could do small collaboration discussions in them. It would be easier than filling the tagline or putting it in the episode.
But you don't have to listen to me if you don't want.[/two cents]
Post by: DruulEmpire on June 30, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
Post by: Prophet_Tenebrae on July 02, 2008, 06:01:13 AM
I think it's just the most pragmatic option... although, I'd love to see tags. Then all of a sudden, all the she-hulk options would be available!
Post by: Cook on July 03, 2008, 02:38:53 AM
I'll go ahead and turn it back into a two way tie by voting for comments, mostly for reasons already mentioned. I'd love to get feedback on what I write (other than the PMing I do with BEginner) but I've never really wanted to post here asking if anyone liked my stuff. Communication is really great for an ongoing story and it would be more fun for reading if it's not in brackets at the beginning or end of the episode.
I know there have been times when I've wanted to add an option to a story, but there are creative ways around that sort of thing most of the time.
That's about it. <gets off soapbox>
Post by: Pyro9975 on July 08, 2008, 07:30:25 PM
Not to be against this option, but this is what I foresee happening.
Post by: Bonkers on July 12, 2008, 10:31:51 PM
Bonkers
Post by: Adama on July 12, 2008, 11:17:16 PM
Post by: JH_ on July 13, 2008, 02:41:28 PM
I see that we've had two more episodes today devoted to comments. *sigh*
Post by: Bonkers on July 13, 2008, 03:35:56 PM
Bonkers
Post by: Third_I on July 13, 2008, 07:29:23 PM
Besides some episodes actually do suck: mostly episodes like: "jim dies the end" "this is sick, u people r disgutsing"
Still negative comments weren't invented with the internet and people already add episodes to insult or demean other authors or their episodes. What do we have to lose?
Post by: Bonkers on July 13, 2008, 07:55:13 PM
Bonkers
Post by: Nack on July 18, 2008, 09:46:10 AM
Comments on episodes would be nice, as we've all seen several times during a storyline where two authors just...hit it off. I've even ran into a few people leaving emails for each other so that they can talk to each other without using the signature line. The negative part of this, is that I'm not always going to go back to specific episodes so that I can carry on a conversation with people. I mean...leave me a comment on my most recent addition, and I'll check it out, but I'm not going to remember to look two or three entries back in a line to see if anyone said anything new a few days (or weeks) ago. Would there be a notifying email for a new comment perhaps?
The other thing is that frankly we wouldn't need this if everyone would just come to the Plume, and come often enough that they could discuss various plotlines and events with the other authors involved (and perhaps some that aren't.). Just something to say, "Hey, I made a special effort two entries ago to keep so-and-so from getting turned into a nymphomaniac animal demon girl...thing, and I was kind of hoping to use her for the storyline for a bit BEFORE transforming her after her character's developed a bit." However, that being said, I don't even remember when the last time I visited the Plume was, and I'm sure no one else remembers either,...or even knows who the hell I am. I'd say we should advertise the Plume on the main page, but...umm...we do. So...what the hell? Maybe if we wrote about the Plume when you added a page? Something like "Congrats on your new post, now go talk about it on the Plume, and get more people interested!" Or maybe if more authors showed up to talk about their storylines or storylines they see developing and like. I dunno...I don't really have an idea for that, I'm just pointing out that *technically* we don't need comments, but they probably would help out for people, like me, who are too lazy/forgetful to check the Plume.
As for tags, I think that'd be a good thing as well, but something to consider is...how would you add it? I mean....we'd have mf and ff for male/female and female/female sex...but what about furry or transgender? fu and tg? Ok, so far so good. But what about multiple character transformations, while having sex in a vr wishmaker, with Jim's parents while they swap genders back and forth multiple times in the middle of the scene? Does a girl with a tentacle growing out of her count as a herm? What about when she's leaking hypnotic/trans formative milk? We'd have to have a mini-addventure just to keep a list of all of the tags. And who's to say what's transgender lesbian sex to one author isn't just lesbian sex to another? I don't know...I voted for the tags, but that's something I thought of.
As for the other things, I dunno. I post on Superstories sometimes as well, and they have the ability to add options. Honestly, I think the "something else" option USUALLY covers this, and sometimes it seems like it encourages people to hijack stories a little more when they didn't get the option they want. I don't like it when an author doesn't give good options, but sometimes I find myself bending a little more in ways I'd never imagined because they didn't give me an option I was hoping for, and I have fun rolling with it. If worse comes to worse, you can always backtrack and use a something else option from an earlier entry, and not enough of the options in a story get used generally anyway.
Favorites might be nice, but most authors don't need I think. We could have a monthly competition or something if you were planning on glorifying someone for their work, or if you wanted to make a special list, we could do more of those lists I see in the addventure index of various story starts and such. Maybe we could add a rating system to that, and open up nominations for story start markers there? I don't really know what I'm talking about.
At any rate, I think I'll stop writing. I've rambled on much more than I thought.
Nack
Post by: Adama on July 18, 2008, 12:47:31 PM
Quote:
Nack said:
Would there be a notifying email for a new comment perhaps?
That was my intention. There's already an option for putting in your email address to be notified on extensions; I was going to have that also be used to notify you of new comments. It would still depend on you remembering to fill in your email address each time though.
Quote:
or even knows who the hell I am.
I know who everyone is
(kidding)Quote:
I'd say we should advertise the Plume on the main page, but...umm...we do. So...what the hell? Maybe if we wrote about the Plume when you added a page?
Yeah, I put links to the Plume on the main page, the Recent Episodes List, and the episode-is-added page... don't know what else I can do there. And I keep mentioning it in the Addventure when people start comment threads, and sometimes get responses like "I don't want to register on The Plume, so I'm going to comment in the Addventure instead."
Quote:
As for tags, I think that'd be a good thing as well, but something to consider is...how would you add it?
It would be something like other sites have -- one of the episode-creation pages would have a set of checkboxes where the author could select as many tags as they feel apply to their episode. New checkboxes would be added as I thought of new tags that were needed. As for which tags authors should use, I think that should be completely up to the author, without us imposing some sort of standard (though I think tags should only apply to the content of this episode, rather than to the content of future episodes in the thread -- I've seen that problem on CYOC). If multiple transformations/fetishes/etc. occur in an episode, then check off more than one tag.
The initial tag list would probably be the tags I use in the Storytree Index.
Quote:
We'd have to have a mini-addventure just to keep a list of all of the tags.
Maybe I would start a set of Index pages which let you see all the episodes with each tag -- a "gts" page, a "ff" page, etc.
Another question would be -- should any effort be made to add tags to the 140K episodes we already have?
Quote:I'm surprised anyone has voted for this one, since it's the one option on the list that nobody has actually requested before...
Favorites might be nice, but most authors don't need I think.
Quote:Good questions though.
At any rate, I think I'll stop writing. I've rambled on much more than I thought.
Post by: Nack on July 19, 2008, 02:30:39 AM
I wish I knew a way to drum up more interest in the Plume itself. I tried posting more on the superstories forum several years ago, but it never seemed like I could drum up as much interest in stories I was personally interested in. I feel like more people would come if there were already more people coming perhaps, but that's just circular logic.
I think a page for tags would be nice, but what I mean is, how generic/specific are the tags going to be? I mean, mcstories.com has a growth tag, but that's an umbrella for a lot of things (guy parts, girl parts, random parts). Even if you say just breast growth, there's some stories there where the girl goes up on cup sizes, and at least one story where the girl had to be flown to live on the moon because her breasts were taking up too much space. (prohibited O).com covers that a little better I think, but I still think everyone would feel cheated if certain tags were and were not added. I mean...a supernatural tag would be nice, but frankly, I don't care to read a story about a girl turning into a zombie, goblin, or harpy as much as I'd want to see one for a vampire, lycanthrope, or demoness. A lot of tags work fine for umbrellas, but if I'm in a vampire mood that day, I'm more apt to look for vampire stories specificially. But that would mean all of those other creatures would need/deserve their own tags as well. And if you add tags later on, then I might find that a story has tags, but didn't include a tag that wasn't around when the story was posted. I dunno...I think I'm losing my point here. It'll probably already be fine.
As for adding tags on older stories, maybe we could have a swat team work it out. Most of the entries are 3 sentences long anyways...still we'll never actually finish, but I'd be happy to go back and redo all of my own at the very least.
Anyway, whatever happens, I really like this addventure, and I appreciate any work you put into it.
Nack
Post by: FlySpek1947 on July 19, 2008, 08:21:33 AM
As for Adding New Options, many of the other responses here have gone over the negatives to that idea quite thoroughly. All I can add is that I agree with them.
Tags - I never gave them much thought before. Nack has brought up some good points though. And what he's said makes me think that, more often than not, Tags work better for completed Stories than for individual Episodes in an extend-a-story. I'm not saying they're useless, just not as useful.
One last question - I'm not too familiar with how these Polls work. People can only vote once under any particular ID, right?
Post by: BEginner on July 19, 2008, 09:19:04 AM
For people I write with a lot or read a lot, I don't really need to see what a specific episode contains. I can usually guess from the author (if familiar) and the title if it's something I want to bother looking at. Author profiles would shorten that process a lot. It could also serve in one area that comments would, being able to have a reference what a collaborating author might like or not like for possible plot options.
Just a random thought
Post by: Blues32 on July 19, 2008, 11:38:40 AM
Post by: Adama on July 19, 2008, 11:44:34 AM
Quote:Automatically putting links on the authors' names would require a standardization of how people sign their episodes, almost like an "author registration", otherwise how would the software know who was who? Or putting some kind of fuzzy logic in the code to figure out alternate spellings and ignore author commentary in the sigs. I currently spend a couple of hours each month reconciling the signatures so that the Author indexes can be updated. I think kind of programming will take more time than I have to spend on it...
BEginner said:
Good discussion so far. Actually been pondering tags more and more since they've been pushing out in the lead and one idea I thought I might throw out a slightly different suggestion. Rather than putting tags on individual episodes, how about you give authors the tags? Allow each author to setup what tag topics they like, don't like and are neutral to. That would be a static selection, and make the author name a clickable link on the recent ep list to show what kinds of things they like, etc.
For people I write with a lot or read a lot, I don't really need to see what a specific episode contains. I can usually guess from the author (if familiar) and the title if it's something I want to bother looking at. Author profiles would shorten that process a lot. It could also serve in one area that comments would, being able to have a reference what a collaborating author might like or not like for possible plot options.
Post by: Nack on July 19, 2008, 12:23:04 PM
Post by: BEginner on July 19, 2008, 12:24:15 PM
I can think of how to do it, but yeah, may be more time than you want to put in
Post by: Blues32 on July 19, 2008, 04:50:58 PM
Quote:
Nack said:
I've just never watched Teen Titans, Blues. Otherwise I think you're doing an awesome job with what I've read.
See? That's why we need to be able to add comments! Thank you, Nack!
Post by: Chuck on July 29, 2008, 08:11:18 PM
I don't really have any comment on that. Besides that it's foolish. Oops. Did I type that or just think it? Anyway, yeah. It's also *yawn* oh geez. That was rude. Almost as if the content tags bored me so much that I started to drift off. Wouldn't want to give that impression. What was I saying? Oh, yes...so "comments on episodes" is winning! Great news. That will really enable an even greater sense of community as authors lend their 2 cent's worth to other author's work on an episode-by-episode basis. Oh, wait. "Comments on episodes" is not winning. My mistake. My eyes must be tired. Content tags. Right. Everybody's been crying out for content tags for years, haven't they? I think my memory is going. I can't really remember many people asking for content tags at all. But, they're winning. People are voting. Democracy in action. And the majority is always right, aren't they. Aren't they?
Post by: FlySpek1947 on July 30, 2008, 03:13:41 AM
Take for instance Chuck's Holy Monkey stories. Is the tag for them "Divine Monkiness" or "Monkey Feces"?
I'm not sure. Well, here's to hoping Reader's Comments wins out in the end.
Post by: Blues32 on July 30, 2008, 04:59:43 AM
Post by: Chuck on July 30, 2008, 05:49:20 AM
Quote:
FlySpek1947 said:
Take for instance Chuck's Holy Monkey stories. Is the tag for them "Divine Monkiness" or "Monkey Feces"?
Most episodes require both.
People actually *read* those?
Post by: Adama on July 30, 2008, 01:11:03 PM
Quote:
FlySpek1947 said:
I can't say that I'm all too familiar with content tags. Where/How do you view them? Is there a specific list of tags, or do you just fill in a blank space with whatever you want?
Take for instance Chuck's Holy Monkey stories. Is the tag for them "Divine Monkiness" or "Monkey Feces"?
I'm not sure. Well, here's to hoping Reader's Comments wins out in the end.
If I did the tags, there would be a specific list of tags (checkboxes) that authors would choose from. I might add new tags as time goes by, but (despite earlier discussion) I don't think I'd let authors make up their own tags.
Content tags are more traditionally associated with Story Archives, such as the old BEA Story archive or The (prohibited O), though they've also been used in Choose Your Own Change. Their intended use is to attract readers to an episode by letting them know what kind of transformation or other "item of interest" occurs in that episode. The tags for an episode would appear in the Recent Episode Lists (and the Index pages), so it would be easy to catch the eyes of potential readers.
Given the discussions on this thread, however, I'm inclined to implement "Comments on episodes" unless there's an overwhelming majority that beats it, rather than the neck-and-neck race we have now.
As to WHEN whatever-feature-it-is gets implemented... I need to start working on it soon, I think. This poll has gone on long enough.
Post by: FlySpek1947 on July 30, 2008, 01:15:39 PM
I'm weird that way.
Post by: Chuck on July 30, 2008, 04:35:32 PM
Quote:
FlySpek1947 said:
Well, to be honest, as a dues paying member of the Church of the Bowler Fucker I can't really say that I'm a follower of the Holy Monkey. Religious differences and all, y'know. But what can I say, I like bananas. And feces throwing. Especially flaming feces throwing.
I'm weird that way.
I'll see what I can do about working that in somewhere. Thanks for the idea. Gotta keep things fresh!
Post by: Sir_NATE on August 26, 2008, 10:04:56 PM
I believe the reason we are hearing such a large outcry from the "comments" gallery and not from the "tags" group is authors (who would have accounts on the plume) are desiring the comments. On the other hand, a feature like "tags" would be a favorite for readers, who would rather get to what their pleasures are and not have to sift through a thousand stories to find them.
Anyways, that's my two cents.
Post by: Chuck on June 06, 2010, 08:28:47 PM
Doubt any of you still recall me however, I just wanted to lend my support to the "comments" option. I know back when I was still writing here, my largest concern was if anyone was actually reading what I wrote
I'd love a feature that showed each author which of his/her past episodes was read (and by whom) since the last time he or she has logged in. That would be fun and informative.
Post by: Adama on June 07, 2010, 12:52:00 AM
I'd love a feature that showed each author which of his/her past episodes was read (and by whom) since the last time he or she has logged in. That would be fun and informative.
Unfortunately, I don't have any access to information about what episodes have been read. Though maybe if I talked to the sysadmin, there would be a way to get to it...
Related to the earlier parts of this thread -- yes, I KNOW I said I would do the "comments" option 2 years ago and haven't delivered it yet. I did a fair bit of development on it in 2008, but then got busy with work and it sort of slid aside... I'll get back to it!
Post by: Chuck on November 18, 2014, 09:22:14 PM
Content tags on episodes is winning.
I don't really have any comment on that. Besides that it's foolish. Oops. Did I type that or just think it? Anyway, yeah. It's also *yawn* oh geez. That was rude. Almost as if the content tags bored me so much that I started to drift off. Wouldn't want to give that impression. What was I saying? Oh, yes...so "comments on episodes" is winning! Great news. That will really enable an even greater sense of community as authors lend their 2 cent's worth to other author's work on an episode-by-episode basis. Oh, wait. "Comments on episodes" is not winning. My mistake. My eyes must be tired. Content tags. Right. Everybody's been crying out for content tags for years, haven't they? I think my memory is going. I can't really remember many people asking for content tags at all. But, they're winning. People are voting. Democracy in action. And the majority is always right, aren't they. Aren't they?
I quite like this. Just found it again after all this time. Comments on episodes seems so natural now, so much a part of the BE Addventure, that it's difficult to imagine it almost lost out to CONTENT TAGS. What?!!?