Breast Expansion Archive Forum
Miscellaneous => Off-Topic & Testing => Topic started by: Hiram on October 02, 2017, 07:49:21 AM
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Sad news about the shooting in Las Vegas. I hope George is ok?
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I'm fine. I'm here in Canada visiting family and I just found out about it. I work at the Luxor which is the pyramid across the boulevard.
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I'm fine. I'm here in Canada visiting family and I just found out about it. I work at the Luxor which is the pyramid across the boulevard.
Glad you are okay - I bet your colleagues are super busy at the moment.
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I'm fine.
So glad you checked in. Thought of you when this all went down.
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While the number of dead and wounded is going to keep rising, I note that the corresponding numbers for US forces from the initial attack in the Second Battle of Falujah (54 killed and 425 wounded) has already been surpassed.
One has to wonder if it will be "time to talk about guns and gun control" before the next mass shooting comes along. Esquire's Charles P. Pierce has essentially given up:
Better that one Stephen Paddock go free than a hundred law-abiding gun owners wait a week before buying an Uzi. This is a vision of the nation that has been sold to us by a generation of politicians who talk brave and act gutless, and by the carny shills in the employ of the industries of death. Better that one Stephen Paddock go free than a hundred law-abiding gun owners wait a week before buying an Uzi. We are all walking blood sacrifices waiting to happen.
Disgust isn’t enough.
Sorrow isn’t enough.
Nothing is enough because, if Newtown wasn’t enough, then how can Las Vegas be enough? And if Las Vegas isn’t enough, then how can anything be enough?
God help us all.
"If Newtown Wasn't Enough, Why Would Las Vegas Be Enough?" 10/2/17
And the best government Twitter response so far comes from Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT):
Gov. Matt Bevin (KY): "To all those political opportunists who are seizing on the tragedy in Las Vegas to call for more gun regs....You can't regulate evil."
Sen Murphy: "I await your proposal to rescind Kentucky's laws banning assault, murder and arson. One of government's core functions is to regulate evil."
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One has to wonder if it will be "time to talk about guns and gun control" before the next mass shooting comes along. Esquire's Charles P. Pierce has essentially given up:
Didnt take long for you to make it political.
Why dont people ask about the kind of medications the shooter(s) was on before talking about guns? Why dont people ask about the kind of medications the shooter(s) was on at all?
Also this is strange:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/vegas-shooting-stephen-paddock-attack-warning-eyewitness-what-happened-latest-news-updates-a7978821.html
And f*** Hayley Geftman-Gold. Who said she was "not even sympathetic." She said "country music fans are often Republican." Disgusting.
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"I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life.
Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with CHL licenses, and legal firearms on the bus.
They were useless.
We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think that we were part of the massacre and shoot us. A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power.
Enough is enough.
Writing my parents and the love of my life a goodbye note last night and a living will because I felt like I wasn’t going to live through the night was enough for me to realize that this is completely and totally out of hand. There rounds were powerful enough that my crew guys just standing in close proximity of a victim shot by this fucking coward received shrapnel wounds.
We need gun control RIGHT. NOW.
My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn’t realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it.
We are unbelievably fortunate to not be among the victims killed or seriously wounded by this maniac."
-- guitarist Caleb Keeter of the Josh Abbott Band, one of the acts that played at the country music festival in Las Vegas where 58 people were killed and another 500 were injured
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One has to wonder if it will be "time to talk about guns and gun control" before the next mass shooting comes along. Esquire's Charles P. Pierce has essentially given up:
Sadly, he has good reason for such cynicism. As Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson's latest column says:
"The carnage will continue"
We will never know why. We already know how, but we don’t care about that. And we know, beyond the slightest doubt, that it will happen again.
There can be no rational motive for mass murder, which means that asking why [the mass murderer] turned the Las Vegas Strip into a killing zone is ultimately a futile exercise. He may have had nominal or imagined reasons for his homicidal anger. But nothing can really explain the decision to spray thousands of concert-goers with automatic weapons fire, killing at least 59 and injuring hundreds more.
The attack wasn’t terrorism, authorities quickly said, as if this assessment somehow lessened the horror. Would someone please explain to me how that works? Are friends and family members of the dead supposed to feel one way if the murderer yells “God is great” in Arabic, and another way if he doesn’t? What if the killer were to say those same words in English?
Investigators and reporters will now sift through [the murderer]’s life for signs of chronic mental illness or sudden psychological deterioration. But what will that search tell us except the obvious? Of course [the mass murderer] was disturbed. Who in his right mind mows down innocent strangers at a country music festival?
But of the many people who are not in their right minds, which ones are violent enough to commit such a heinous act? There is no reliable way to tell. An announcement like “I’m about to explode” is hardly ever followed by actual detonation.
What we do know about [the mass murderer], 64, is that he lived in the nearby town of Mesquite and often came to the Strip to gamble and attend country music shows. We also know, according to Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo, that [the mass murderer] brought more than 10 firearms to his room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.
So the “how” of this tragedy is simple: Our nation is flooded with guns, and the constitutionally protected right to “keep and bear arms” — established in the age of single-shot blunderbusses and muskets — has been deemed to include military-style semiautomatic assault rifles and other high-powered weapons.
Sound from cellphone videos taken during the Las Vegas massacre clearly indicates that [the mass murderer] was using a fully automatic rifle — meaning that squeezing and holding the trigger unleashed a long, continuous burst of gunfire. Such machine guns were supposedly outlawed in 1986, but there are two huge loopholes: In some states, it is legal to buy and sell machine guns that were made before 1986; and Internet merchants sell kits that convert semiautomatic rifles into fully automatic killing machines.
No deer hunter or target-shooting enthusiast needs a weapon intended for war zones — a weapon designed and optimized for use by soldiers against enemy forces. But if the Newtown, Conn., massacre of 6-year-olds and 7-year-olds didn’t even lead to universal background checks for gun purchasers, let alone a ban on assault weapons, I don’t see why anyone should believe things will be different this time around.
The Supreme Court has stated explicitly that reasonable gun-control measures are permissible under the Constitution. But can you imagine this Congress and this president doing the right thing? Neither can I. We’ll need a different Congress and a different president to make progress.
But even if I could snap my fingers and change the law, there would still be an estimated 300 million guns in the United States — roughly one per person. Which means that the quotidian carnage would continue.
Assume Sunday was an average day. If the Las Vegas killings had not happened, nearly 100 people around the country would have been killed by firearms. About two-thirds of those deaths would have been suicides; nearly all the rest, homicides — about 12,000 a year. We have become emotionally and intellectually numb to this appalling toll.
A mass shooting or a terrorist rampage, on the other hand, rivets the nation. Television networks shift into continuous “breaking news” coverage. Newspapers rush to profile the shooter, then the victims. The president makes a statement expressing the nation’s grief. Gun-rights advocates pre-emptively declare that this is not the time to talk about gun control, accusing anyone who does of politicizing tragedy. Gun-control proponents ask: If not now, then when? Everyone agrees we should do something about mental health, but we end up doing nothing. A long series of funerals ends the ritual.
We go back to our routines as if there won’t be a next time. But there will. And we all know it.
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#1 I went back and edited the mass murderer's name out of that, since he has enough publicity.
#2 Apparently, CNN's Anderson Cooper took the same tack, starting out his show by saying in so many words that he isn't going to repeat the mass murderer's name and would instead focus on his victims.
#3 Snopes: "CBS Fires Lawyer Over Faceb__k Comments About Las Vegas Mass Shooting" (http://bit.ly/2ykHAUq)
...because no matter where on the political spectrum you fall, can we just agree that mass murdering of your fellow humans is unacceptable?
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"I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life.
I am too. But there comes a time when you have to look at it again.
Here in the UK we've had mass shootings - but after each they toughened the guns laws - to a point now where is is quite hard to legally own a gun.
Tightening the guns laws wont stop a nutter with a car crashing into a crowd, or an acid attack. But you are very unlikely to be shot in the UK, very unlikely indeed.
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I'm fine. I'm here in Canada visiting family and I just found out about it. I work at the Luxor which is the pyramid across the boulevard.
Glad you are okay - I bet your colleagues are super busy at the moment.
Monday morning I got a call on my cell phone asking me to come to work and I reminded my manager I was about 3000 miles away and my return would not be until Wednesday. But I know this event will change hotel procedures in regards to how we deal with guest luggage check in procedures. Up until now, we never check the luggage of our guests prior to them renting a room. We may start now. Our policy has been to advise guests that if they have firearms, to check them into Security where we stow them in a safe. This is based on the honor system. Quite a lot comply. But of course, a lot don't . We are after all, in the hospitality business and not in the Security business. To harden the place to make it " secure " would involve making it as pleasant as the airport which would be intolerable to most of our guests. And gun control won't work because the bad guys won't disarm and those who wish to kill for evil reasons can use other means such as fertilizer loaded rental trucks like Timothy McVeigh. So before you advocate removing the right to self defence, you should remove the evil intent of people. Let's see you manage that.
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Can we just keep them from getting silencers for the guns?
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Silencers are a Hollywood invention that does not exist. The correct term is suppressors and they lower the noise level from 145 + decibels to 130 -140 decibels. That is what a jet engine makes. Also, legislation should never be based in the stupidity of Hollywood movies since they are there to entertain, not truthfully inform.
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^ Thank you, Sol. Glad you are well. You were in my thoughts.
Just for fun, try 30 seconds of search and 30 minutes of reading about suppressors:
1. Article referencing rarity of use in crime:
http://freebeacon.com/issues/atf-despite-nearly-1-3-million-silencers-united-states-rarely-used-crimes/
2. "Article" referencing individual crimes and asserting danger:
http://www.vpc.org/press/firearm-silencers-threaten-public-safety-new-vpc-study-finds/
3. Article synthesizing ~both of above:
https://reason.com/archives/2017/01/16/the-surprising-truth-about-gun-silencers/print
4. Discussion of "silencer" caselaw:
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files/2015/02/Silencer-caselaw.pdf
And, of course, Sol is correct.
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I don't care what they are called, suppressor, silencer, or ear protection barrel attachment, they should not be readily available like the NRA wants.
I, like everyone else am pissed, that 59 were killed and almost 600 injured.
I am damn proud of everyone that stepped up and helped those who were hurt.
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Our policy has been to advise guests that if they have firearms, to check them into Security where we stow them in a safe. This is based on the honor system. Quite a lot comply. But of course, a lot don't . We are after all, in the hospitality business and not in the Security business. To harden the place to make it " secure " would involve making it as pleasant as the airport which would be intolerable to most of our guests.
When I would travel through India and Pakistan, I would stay in hotels nearly everywhere. Especially in the big cities, when you drive up, your car/taxi would have to go through a magnetometer and/or over a mirrored surface, to check for car bombs under the carriage. Then you would walk up to the front of the hotel, and you'd put your bags on a conveyor belt which would then go through an X-ray machine, while you would walk through a metal detector, at the end of which a dude would wand you down. Total time: 30 seconds. It was nearly seamless and painless; in fact, in my opinion, a better experience than going through any American airport since you didn't have to remove your shoes.
We could learn a lot from other countries...if only...
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Speaking of shoe removal, it was because ONE GUY tried to blow up his feet with plastic explosives on an airplane that we have to take off our shoes. That was in December of 2001, and we're still doing it.
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And you would think that sometime in the intervening SIXTEEN YEARS they would have come up with a way to detect explosives on shoes without having us take them off.
But I'm sure that it's impossible, and there is no way it could be done. Absolutely no way!!!!
(http://media2.wxyz.com/photo/2016/05/25/16x9/Vapor_wake_dogs_coming_to_metro_Detroit_0_38965714_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)
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Silencers are a Hollywood invention that does not exist. The correct term is suppressors and they lower the noise level from 145 + decibels to 130 -140 decibels.
You can get subsonic ammunition; which would reduce the crack the bullet makes as it hits the air at twice the speed of sound. But subsonic ammo has less range.
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You know what we can do that only the most rabid gun nuts would object to?
1. Let the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms computerize its records. The NRA lobby has hamstrung the ATF with so many "riders" on its budget that the agency is essentially ineffective:
"The success of ATF’s critics in reining in its authority is nowhere more evident than in the bureau’s appropriation statute, which is two pages long, devotes 11 lines to describing the agency’s budget and the remaining 76 lines to proscriptions on its powers. Many of these “riders,” as they’re known, go to the agency’s most basic investigative functions. Two of the riders effectively ban consolidation and computerization of records. One limits access and use of crime gun trace data, while another undermines the credibility of whatever trace data are released. One rider overturns ATF efforts to ban the import of large-capacity shotguns, which the agency found had no “sporting purposes.” Another overturned an ATF regulation to limit the import of dangerous weapons under a law originally designed to protect collectors of “curios and relics."
"Today, gun sale records are kept at 60,000 separate locations by the nation’s 60,000 federal firearms licensees (FFLs). With a centralized database, an ATF agent in possession of a gun found at a crime scene could simply plug the gun’s serial number into a computer and identify the name of the dealer who sold the weapon, along with the name of the first purchaser. Without a database, agents must often embark on a Rube Goldberg-style odyssey, contacting the gun’s manufacturer or a gun’s importer who will direct the agent either to a middleman who sold the weapon to a dealer or to the dealer himself, who can identify the first buyer. Dealers are required to keep records of each firearm transaction. Frequently, however, the records are on paper, and dealers can’t locate particular ones quickly. At the same time, there is no law requiring consolidation of wholesale weapon transfers—those sales by the manufacturer or middleman—which means ATF inspectors have no way of knowing whether a dealer’s ledgers accurately represent all of the guns he has bought or if he is illegally selling guns off the books."
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/atf-gun-laws-nra/
2. Let the CDC conduct a comprehensive, nationwide study on the causes and effect of gun violence. And give it adequate funding. How can we know the extent of the problem we're trying to deal with if we don't know the extent of the problem?
This gap dates back to a 1996 appropriations bill, known as the Dickey Amendment. The amendment declared that "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”
While the rule itself does not directly block research on gun violence, it was signed into law along with an earmark that drained money from CDC programs to study gun violence. The $2.6 million in funding originally intended for the program was redirected elsewhere. Since then, the amendment has created a strong chilling effect in the way funding is distributed as well as a lost generation of researchers who study gun violence, Boston University’s Sandro Galea told Newsweek.
In academia, where funding shapes careers, relatively few researchers are willing to stake theirs on studying the issue. As Garen Wintemute, a researcher at the University of California, Davis, told The Atlantic, “I’ve received death threats. It kind of comes with the territory.”
http://www.newsweek.com/government-wont-fund-gun-research-stop-violence-because-nra-lobbying-675794
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The ATF isn't allowed to computerize its records??? This is insanity.
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Let's just rename it the NRATF and drop all the charades.
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Additionally we should just declare the NRA a domestic terror organization and be done with it. They're keeping the entire country hostage with their political agenda...
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Additionally we should just declare the NRA a domestic terror organization and be done with it. They're keeping the entire country hostage with their political agenda...
As a NRA member I can tell you that dumbass comments like these which demonize us will only make us much more recalcitrant. >:(
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Additionally we should just declare the NRA a domestic terror organization and be done with it. They're keeping the entire country hostage with their political agenda...
As a NRA member I can tell you that dumbass comments like these which demonize us will only make us much more recalcitrant. >:(
Virtually everyone uses the term "NRA" interchangeably with "the Gun Lobby", and yeah, it's unfair and counterproductive that we don't draw a semantic distinction between the Gun Lobby and rank-and-file NRA members, because those two groups are not even remotely the same.
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I see what you're saying, but: Rank-and-file NRA members are obliged to keep the leadership of the NRA, aka "the gun lobby", in check. Sadly, that isn't happening, so to some extent, they are responsible as well. Rank-and-file members, who know how important responsible gun ownership and usage is, have been hijacked by rabid gun lobbyists like that LaPierre fellow. It's similar to how the rank-and-file of the People for Ethical Treatment of Animals got hijacked and now the crazies run the asylum.
You might be angry about my characterization of the NRA as a domestic terror group, but look at how the leadership behaves. They are keeping the entire country in their thrall, actively working to prevent the scientific study of the misuse of guns, lobbying against the Surgeon-General, and generally behaving like lunatics.
But don't get angry. As the kids say, "if it don't apply, let it fly."
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Zook, I'm not angry about anything you wrote; I was trying to clarify for Solvegas that our comments about the NRA aren't intended as personal criticism of regular members. I think there's a wide gulf between the intentions of rank-and-file NRA members and their leadership, but I'm not sure there's a way for the rank-and-file to change things within the organization because the money used to buy off congress doesn't come from membership fees. The leadership is also constantly lying to them that any sort of gun reform is the first step before the liberals take away their guns, which anyone with a grain of common sense knows is never going to happen.
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^ "... The leadership is also constantly lying to them that any sort of gun reform is the first step before the liberals take away their guns, which anyone with a grain of common sense knows is never going to happen."
With respect and evidence, I disagree.
It will take time to sift through the information available on the Internet, but search for "California SKS Confiscation" and you will eventually piece it together. It was a voluntary surrender under pain of future felony, so it was not a specifically legally-defined confiscation, though it bore a distinct resemblance to a generally-defined confiscation:
Confiscation \Con`fis*ca"tion\, n. [L. confiscatio.]
The act or process of taking property or condemning it to be
taken, as forfeited to the public use.
[1913 Webster]
My Dad had a type of offending one, and he received one of the many letters from the State DOJ to "register" it which, since he had of course purchased it legally, was described by some (accurately, as it turned out) as an attempt to generate a list of owners for future confiscation. Later, after "registering" it, he received another of the many letters giving him the 3 options of: surrender to Law Enforcement, verifiable destruction (present destroyed receiver to Law Enforcement), or re-location of the firearm out-of-state. He chose the latter. I saw and we discussed the letters, but I do not physically possess them so my information is technically anecdotal. He died in 2003 and the firearm remains out-of-state.
Check here for verification and perspective:
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jul/23/local/me-25465
Check here for another recent CA confiscation that has support:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/19/california-gun-confiscation-bill_n_3117238.html
And check here for a nationwide perspective that I found...chilling:
http://www.level-headed.net/2013/05/gun-confiscation-in-america/
Yes, various nationwide elected officials do keep proposing confiscation, and the proposed Bills keep getting voted down. So far.
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You know what we can do that only the most rabid gun nuts would object to?
What can we do that only the most rabid gun confiscation idiots wouldnt be satisfied with?
You might be angry about my characterization of the NRA as a domestic terror group, but look at how the leadership behaves. They are keeping the entire country in their thrall...
Sure enough, I never saw you condemn any leftist organizations that fit this standard. Can you say BlackLivesMatter is a domestic terror group?
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Zook, I'm not angry about anything you wrote; I was trying to clarify for Solvegas that our comments about the NRA aren't intended as personal criticism of regular members. I think there's a wide gulf between the intentions of rank-and-file NRA members and their leadership, but I'm not sure there's a way for the rank-and-file to change things within the organization because the money used to buy off congress doesn't come from membership fees. The leadership is also constantly lying to them that any sort of gun reform is the first step before the liberals take away their guns, which anyone with a grain of common sense knows is never going to happen.
I concur with everything you have said. I would only add that the NRA leadership's characterization of this as "we versus the libruls" is idiotic in the extreme, because gun ownership, and the desire for sensible measures of gun control, and the desire to own guns, goes across the political spectrum. Every time a massacre like this happens, the NRA lies and says "they're coming for our guns" and there's a spike in gun purchases, which puts yet more money in the coffers of gun manufacturers and their gun lobby gets their own kickback -- and yet "they" never come for the guns...because that is not what they wanted to do in the first place. This is insanity.
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For someone living outside the US, this discussion whether gun or not guns and the confiscation is plain laughable, so extremely laughable you won't believe it. It reminds me of the main characters of dumb and dumber. Unfortunately it causes a lot of dead people.
The numbers are clear over 330 000 dead in the USA in the last 10 years through fire arms and the highest death rate per million citizens, the worlds worst protection of the people in favour for guns in a developed nation.
The next worst protection of the people in favour for carrying guns is switzerland. And they have the 2nd highest death rate by fire arms.
One of the lowest death rates per million citizens in a developed nation is UK & Wales. And they have certainly the best protection of the people from guns in Europe.
The facts are clear. And it is clear what needs to be done.
And that's why the discussion is so laughable.
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@ KBTs: Americans own more than 300,000,000 guns. The idea of confiscating most or all of them —which is what I was referring to (I should have been more specific)— is crazy. Prohibitively intrusive. Prohibitively expensive. Guaranteed to fail spectacularly. Nobody would ever attempt it.
Thanks for the references; very interesting reading.
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I concur with everything you have said. I would only add that the NRA leadership's characterization of this as "we versus the libruls" is idiotic in the extreme, because gun ownership, and the desire for sensible measures of gun control, and the desire to own guns, goes across the political spectrum. Every time a massacre like this happens, the NRA lies and says "they're coming for our guns" and there's a spike in gun purchases, which puts yet more money in the coffers of gun manufacturers and their gun lobby gets their own kickback -- and yet "they" never come for the guns...because that is not what they wanted to do in the first place. This is insanity.
According to you=
Most of what you said here can be said for BlackLivesMatter. The leadership characterizes it as "we versus the cops." Every time a shooting happens, BLM lies and says "hands up dont shoot" or something and theres a spike in hatred against police and anyone who doesnt agree which puts yet more hatred in the minds of african americans -- and yet cops actually kill more caucasians than black people...because that is not what cops want to do in the first place. Is that insanity?.... oh wait, you support BLM from what I remember. Go figure.
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For someone living outside the US, this discussion whether gun or not guns and the confiscation is plain laughable, so extremely laughable you won't believe it. It reminds me of the main characters of dumb and dumber. Unfortunately it causes a lot of dead people.
The numbers are clear over 330 000 dead in the USA in the last 10 years through fire arms and the highest death rate per million citizens, the worlds worst protection of the people in favour for guns in a developed nation.
The next worst protection of the people in favour for carrying guns is switzerland. And they have the 2nd highest death rate by fire arms.
One of the lowest death rates per million citizens in a developed nation is UK & Wales. And they have certainly the best protection of the people from guns in Europe.
The facts are clear. And it is clear what needs to be done.
And that's why the discussion is so laughable.
And how many of those are suicides? More than half I bet. But nonetheless, even if its 100,000 deaths - I agree that that is a lot.
Complete gun confiscation is pretty laughable though. Im certain even rtpoe and zookie would say so but they arent going to tell you that because anti trumpers gotta stick together.
I mean, dont you despise Trump? Dont liberals and Democrats hate Trump with a passion? So why would they want to disarm during the Trump era? Do liberals really want to be defenseless against the big evil Trumpel? You guys really want Trump armed to the teeth while you dont have anything? How are liberals going to protect their free speech against Trump?
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A total ban on guns, with confiscation, is completely insane.
DC vs Heller, the SCOTUS decision that redefined the 2A, does make a bit of sense. It was ruled that private gun ownership was allowed, but left it open for the government to regulate gun ownership (the type and number of guns, the licensing and registration thereof, etc.).
Think rationally about it. In parts of the country, it could take far too long for law enforcement to arrive on the scene if a ne'er-do-well breaks into your home. Heck, even if you live across the street from your local police HQ, it can still be too late before they arrive. So yes, people should be allowed to arm themselves to protect their home and family.
The questions that really need to be discussed are 1) What sort of firearms are appropriate for the defense of one's home, and 2) Where does "home" end and the public sphere begin? But both sides in the debate get so caught up in technical matters that they cannot get their heads around them.
In addition to computerizing the BATFE (they've added Explosives to their remit) and letting the CDC do the research, the government could promote the use of "smart" guns. These are guns that use some sort of fingerprint scanner or transponder that keeps anyone who is not an authorized user from firing it. The idea is that it will prevent accidents in the home, and make a stolen gun pretty much useless. Of course, the Gun Lobby complains that bad guys or the government (the same thing to many of them) will be able somehow to "hack" into the guns and prevent *anyone* from using them. Personally, I'm ambivalent about them. If someone breaks into your home, you don't want to be worrying about a "Low Battery" message or fumbling with the transponder bracelet. But why not let the market decide? Not too long ago, a gun shop owner in New Jersey decided to sell them. He almost immediately got death threats - apparently from gun lovers who were afraid that if the technology was perfected, the government would make such guns mandatory, and seize all "non-smart" guns, leading to the complete End of Civilization - so he dropped them like a live hand grenade.
Modest guns for the defense of one's home and loved ones? Yeah, that's OK. Arsenals to fight off a tyrannical "gubmint"? If it ever came to it. your arsenal isn't likely to do much against these (http://youtube.com/v/ZW7Op-6dhd4) and these (http://youtube.com/v/bGrNkl8HzPw).
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@ KBTs: Americans own more than 300,000,000 guns. The idea of confiscating most or all of them —which is what I was referring to (I should have been more specific)— is crazy. Prohibitively intrusive. Prohibitively expensive. Guaranteed to fail spectacularly. Nobody would ever attempt it.
Thanks for the references; very interesting reading.
Is there enough metal in the guns to rebuild the world trade center?
According to available statistic*key word "available"* 78% of the adult population don't own a gun, 3% own 50% of the gun, and 19% own the rest. That is base on the registration of gun owners. I have no idea how many unregistered gun sold at trade shows and friends?
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Is there enough reassurance in the guns to soothe the fear caused by the attack on the World Trade Center?
(3d, just so there's no misunderstanding: I'm absolutely anti-gun. I'm not motivated very much by self-preservation or fear, but many people are, and many of them think possessing guns makes them safer. I don't agree that guns make anybody safer, but I respect what those gun owners believe about their own lives, because we all live by whatever practices make us feel secure and prepared.)
(And I think the statistics are oddly reassuring, because 150 million of the guns are in the hands of people who own an average of 20 guns apiece, but can only fire 2 of them at a time.)
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My father put a barrel of a shotgun to my head when I was 9 years old when I stop him from trying to shoot my dog. My dog ran to me and I hover over her to keep her from being shot, and my dad was mad at me for doing so, and that was the pivotal point that my parents got a court order divorce. So needless to say I am so anti-gun for mentally insane people. I am very lucky to be alive, and will never go south of the mason-dixon line where people take their gun to church!
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After the dust has settled, has anyone come to any conclusions about what they think took place and possible reasons why this happened? What are anyones thoughts about the claim of multiple shooters?
Forensic acoustic proof of SECOND shooter in the Las Vegas massacre (https://youtu.be/JxmEFeKy8aI) ??
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This story is falling apart. Police now (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html) say Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers. This adds way more holes to the story.
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On extremist right wing nazi websites just short after the shooting conspiracy theories where launched that a 2nd shooter was involved. Congratulations!
Other conspiracies on these sites: He is an IS terrorist, he is a liberal terrorist because he hates Trump so much because the ex of his partner (the one with australian passport from the phillipines) is a Trump hater, too.
Yepp. Pretty clear that a lot of people on these right wing nazi websites have a drug abuse behaviour or are plain sick in the head.
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On extremist right wing nazi websites just short after the shooting conspiracy theories where launched that a 2nd shooter was involved. Congratulations!
Other conspiracies on these sites: He is an IS terrorist, he is a liberal terrorist because he hates Trump so much because the ex of his partner (the one with australian passport from the phillipines) is a Trump hater, too.
Yepp. Pretty clear that a lot of people on these right wing nazi websites have a drug abuse behaviour or are plain sick in the head.
No one is talking about Alex Jones. There are just some things that are not adding up. And even the FBI asked for help at one point. So there were many interested in this event. People who have experience in guns pointed out anomalies, people that were there saying things that's conflicting with what's been told. It's not really "right wing extremist nazi" as much as you want it to be.
I know you're from Europe(?) but people here in the United States are actually seeing these things and theres nothing wrong with asking questions. NORMAL people can be interested to investigate themselves.
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I'm neither talking about Alex Jones. I talk about German right wing nazi extremist web sites. They seem to have all the same questions ...
I read about this "anomalies" and the conspiracy conclusions on those websites and then went somewhere else and got much better explanations.
Eg. those right wing nazi extremist websites claim that based on smartphone (or similar) videos uploaded they see flashes of several gun fire.
Yeah sure. Never seen lights shine appear and disappear through windows especially when moving? Or you should know that digital recording usually happens at 25fps / 30fps, while your power frequency is 60 Hz? Right? Now you should know that in hotels they usually replaced simple wolfram light bulbs by LED bulbs/light. The right wing nazi terrorist conspiracy follower is usually anti-modernization, he is of retro-oriented intellect, he favours stone age and stone age behaviour over modern times so he doesn't know that LED's actually blink. All this stuff is too modern, too far away from his life that still thinks in petroleum and coal use.
There are at least 2 operation modes for LED's ... In a bad situation this causes the LED and electronical shutter of the camera to run asynchronical, which leads to flashing ...
Life is so easy if one just put a bit of trust into life.
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Unfortunately in a situation such as this the urge to find easy answers leads to mistaken conclusions, bad information and idiotic paranoid conspiracies theories. I deal in Security with this all the time. Of course, the incidents I deal with are of no comparison with this tragedy in scope but when dealing with human beings, like the k1ds at work say, it's complicated. I once had a woman tell me it must have been the maid that stole her Louis Vuitton purse valued by her at $3,500.00 with $3,000.00 cash, multiple credit cards, her cellphone, etc, etc.
She was renting three rooms near the emergency stairwell and she stated she had a party with multiple guests the prior day and night. So I provided her with the report paperwork and asked her to fill it out and describe the items. I also asked her if she had contacted her financial institution and if not to use the room phone and to use the printed information included in my paperwork . I excused myself out of the room and proceeded to the nearby emergency stairwell and looked in it. One floor down I found the purse which had been obviously rifled trough. I took it back up to the room and showed it to her and she claimed it. I asked her to look and see what was missing. The cash was gone along with her credit cards but the cellphone was there and luckily for her the IDs were still there also.
Was she grateful in any way ? Nope. She had been rude to me and had blamed the staff. Fact is, the maids don't work at the midnight hours. She had three rooms and admitted to a party with multiple " dear old friends " in attendance. She then got upset that perhaps a " friend " had stolen from her but then she stated it must have been Room Service which did it. But again the timeline was not right because Room Service had delivered the banquet before the party and she remembered she had the purse during the party inside her bedroom in the suite. Of course, I was not contradicting her obviously erroneous remarks since the guest " is always right ". I offered her the option to contact the Police and she said no even though anything above $650.00 is a Felony in the state of Nevada. She said no. She then stated she wanted the property to reimburse her for the loss of cash and so I gave her a Risk Management card and she can fight it out with our lawyers. After she called me useless, she demanded my manager so I called the shift supervisor who a few minutes later showed up and I left to start writing the report. My manager talked to her, was cussed out and he departed. Later on we both agreed she was an idiot cunt.
Hopefully you can ascertain how people are always blame shifting, coming up with bullshit in order to avoid the unpleasant truth. Cameras later on recorded a male exiting the suite, proceed to the stairwell with the bag and a few minutes later re-enter the suite without the bag. A " deaf friend " had stolen from her. How surprising ( sarcasm ). I'm sure Risk Management, in a polite way, told her to fuck off and die. So, with the shooter investigation on going, it will take a long time to get at most of the truth but there will be missing pieces to the puzzle. When I read so much of what is being put out, I can see some of it is the press getting ahead of themselves especially if you have an anti second amendment agenda. Remember on the second day after Katrina how there was cannibalism inside the Superdome ? Well, the press hated George Bush and so they reported stuff without verification or even common sense. It worked and Bush was wounded politically which was the admitted purpose of the calumny. The press hates guns and there has been erroneous information already propagated but this time it isn't working so well. There will be a need to have patience because this crime will take months, if not years to fully understand and haste can do damage to the innocent.