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Palomine

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Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« on: September 17, 2003, 09:12:59 PM »
Not on my own Athlon PC (I wish... the thing would be great if it weren't for Win2K) but for a friend who despite my total ignorance of all things Linux and almost-total ignorance of most things PC (I only know what I need to know) insists that I help him with this.

No problem swapping out his old hard disk (we'll leave that with his Windows install fully intact in case we have to backtrack or he later decides he doesn't like Linux) for a new one. And he's got a retail package of SUSE Linux (which I'm told is easy to install/use and a favorite among home users). I had a brief look at the dox, and it seems pretty straightforward, and since he has a 2-3 year old Emachines PC it's unlikely that there's anything inside so exotic that the Linux distribution won't recognize/support it. My main area of concern is his DSL connection... a DSL modem plus a router.

I'll probably figure out what I need to know as I go along (two and a half decades of messing around with computers has got to come in handy sometime ) but if anyone out there familiar with Linux in general, or with the SUSE distribution in particular has any advice, guidance, warnings, etc..., I'm all ears. TIA!
 

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geoffk

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2003, 10:44:46 PM »
I'm not as familiar with SuSE as some other distributions, but you shouldn't have any problems.  If he's using a separate router, then you just need to set up an ethernet port to the same IP address that he's using with Windows.  If Windows is using DHCP (i.e. a dynamicly assigned IP address) then that is supported under Linux too.  Linxu does support PPOE and other DSL protocols, but with a separate router, you probably won't need them.

Four main pieces of advice:

1. It's ok for Linux to take over the boot sector.  Grub or Lilo (Linux boot managers) will both boot Windows.

2. If possible, try to bring a second PC (a laptop?) so you can access the internet to download drivers or look up questions.

3. Before leaving Windows and starting the install, document as much information as possible.  In particular, make a note of the graphic card model, sound card, ethernet card, etc.  Also note down all of the ethernet information (address, subnet mask, DNS servers, domain name, mail/POP servers, etc.)  Having all this handy will help the install to go smoothly.  Probably, the install program will guess your hardware correctly, but it's good to know if it's wrong.

4. Linux will allow you to set up IP masquing and firewall rules (ipchains or iptables).  While you're getting the internet connection working, it's ok to leave this mostly open and simple, but it's a very good idea to turn on a set of filtering rules once you have the basic connection working.

Good Luck!  Linux Rulz and WinBlowZ!
   

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Palomine

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2003, 01:04:51 AM »
Thanks for the advice.... his ISP uses static IP addressing and as mentioned except for the DSL stuff, everything else should be bog standard. I'm hoping that the install will do a pretty good job of recognizing stuff, as PC components aren't my area of expertise (happily). I don't think it'll be possible to have another computer there for online stuff unless I remove the new HD and put the Windows disk back in. At least I'm doing this during the day so it'll be possible to wait on hold for tech support if I have to.  

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RDaneel

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2003, 02:58:24 PM »
It won't be tomorrow like you Palomine. I've got a hard drive on order (my peecee one's about full) and will probably install either BSD or Linux before the end of the month. I've had it with windows updates and security issues.

RD  
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ElmerFudd

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2003, 06:02:17 PM »
Hey RDaneel, love your moniker, brings back memories.  The Asimov Android was one of my favorite all-time Sci-Fi characters!  

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Palomine

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2003, 06:08:32 PM »
Just an update for anyone curious.

Time to swap to the new hard disk: 5 minutes, tops (it's an old eMachines box and IMHO pretty nicely built in terms of the case and internal drive sled).

Time to instal SUSE Linux: about 20 minutes or so, including us reading the dialog boxes even though we mostly accepted default settings.

After install, Linux booted fine, and the few apps we opened seemed good. There was a little confusion setting up the net connection (apparently not necessary to do it in the Linux config since the necessary settings were already in the router... so it was working even though I didn't know it at first).

Maybe another 20 minutes to set up the root acct, the user acct, and configure a few other small things.

Two problems DID come up:

For some reason the keyboard got mapped as German (?) despite the fact that I SAW it say U.S. in the prefs during setup... therefore shift-2 didn't produce an @, making setting up the email a bit difficult. Has been corrected w/help from their tech support. Oddly, the shift-2 DID produce the expected @ in a word app, just not in either of the email apps. Strange.

The other issue (not yet resolved) is that the machine doesn't really shut down properly. You can log out of root and into another user w/no trouble, but when you choose to do a full shut-down the system looks like it's doing it but never actually does... requiring the power to be shut off manually, which thus far doesn't seem to have upset the OS on later restart. I'll have to look into this next Monday.



My impressions: for $36, the value received is amazing: a full (and good-looking) Operating System, WITH a complete set of apps (office, a couple browsers, a couple email clients, gimp, a digicam tool, a scanner app, video editor, music tools, etc...... lots more I didn't look at yet... basically at least one of everything). The interface (KBD, Gnome, something like that I think) reminded me more of OSX on a Mac than it did of Windows or Unix (on SGIs). It sort of seemed like a whole new computer.... none of that circa-1981 40-column DOS text always lurking in the bg somewhere on Windows boot-up... the interface text and graphics looked totally contemporary: clean, smooth and inviting. To be frank, I wish that I could install a Red Hat distribution (or something similar... a power-user's flavor of Linux) on my own Athlon box... dealing with that G-D damn Windows setup wizard, and all the mysterious problems I've had with it is a royal PITA... Linux looks like an OS a fella could actually be enthusiastic about, like MacOS... something you use because you WANT to, not simply because you HAVE to (as is the case with me and Win2K). And it seemed FAST, even on my friend's old 1.5gig economy box.

IMHO, even with my very brief peek at the world of Linux thus far, unless you choose Windows in order to run the latest games (or you've already invested too much time in pirating Windows/Windows apps and don't want to hunt for Linux stuff that's close to free) anyone who has a PC and DOESN'T switch it to Linux is making life much harder for themselves than necessary.

 

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Windlord

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2003, 02:57:04 AM »
Most Windows games run under WineX with full hardware acceleration, in some cases they even run faster!. As for the "power user" flavour of linux, I've found by my own experience that there's no such thing: all distros have equal posibilities and it's up to you to bring them to the fullest, they're just starting points.  
A happy BustyLinuX 0.33 User
---------
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Rafe

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2003, 08:57:39 AM »
Quote:


IMHO, even with my very brief peek at the world of Linux thus far, unless you choose Windows in order to run the latest games (or you've already invested too much time in pirating Windows/Windows apps and don't want to hunt for Linux stuff that's close to free) anyone who has a PC and DOESN'T switch it to Linux is making life much harder for themselves than necessary.




This is about the most compelling argument in favor of going with the penguin that I've yet seen.  were i to stumble upon a spare hard drive and non-awful monitor [the "spare" at my house makes a horrible beeping noise when the signal discontinues and refuses to play nice with restarts], i've got approximately enough extra hardware to finally jump in, including a RH7.2 cd.  *ponders*
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Palomine

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 01:51:51 AM »
Skimming old threads... this one's worth bumping to update.

I switched to Linux a few years ago, after using MacOS from day one (early 1984) for more than 25 years. The switch was prompted by me having gotten ahold of used PC hardware that was more powerful specwise than any Mac I had in the house. Since I didn't want to run Windows (no need to get into all that here... I *have* used most major releases of Windows over the years and simply prefer to avoid it) Linux was the only option (Hackintoshing some not-too-old PCs is doable but complex and only worth the trouble (to me) if I really needed to run MacOS or Mac software, which I don't).

Anyway, Linux it was/is. Ubuntu til recently, when I switched to Mint mainly because I didn't like Ubuntu's recent/newfangled Unity interface which feels too much like iOS or Windows 8's tile GUI.

I like Linux. It's fast and light (runs great on older hardware... my current/temp machine is a Core2 from 2005 and under Mint, it's astonishingly usable for a nine-year-old entry-level PC running a current OS), plenty of apps/tools are available for it (I don't play games), it's safe/secure and free as well. Both Ubuntu and Mint were super easy to install: you just DL the disk image and burn it to a CD (or USB key) and stick that in the machine to install, boot from it and follow the instructions.

I honestly haven't missed Mac much since I left. Sure, there are a couple programs in MacOS that I haven't found comparable Linux equivalents for... I still have an older Mac laptop and aside from late-night chat, I use it to do the following tasks:

I cap stuff from my Tivo using Quicktime Player to grab video from the Mac's Firewire port... I'm sure I could do this on the PC in Linux, but the Tivo's in the bedroom, so the laptop is easier).

I also once in a while use the Mac to run Canon's Photostitch program (stitches together multiple photos into a single image by matching/blending overlap areas) ...there may be a Linux equivalent but if so, I haven't found it yet.

I would like to learn how to set up and use Wine in Linux, which I gather can be used to then run Windows software (there's a single custom Windows program I use for work that it'd be nice to run on my own PC under Linux if necessary) but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Well, that's about it I guess. Not trying to convert anyone to Linux... we all know any major OS can suffice for most folks, especially since most of us spend most of our time in OS-agnostic web browsers anyway. :)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 01:55:42 AM by Palomine »

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3deroticer

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2014, 04:30:48 AM »
I was looking at Mint and Zorin, as it was voted the best two linux system. I went with Zorin, because it had a option to make the system look like window XP with the typical start button that was missing on window8. I did find Pokki program that lets you install a typical start button that I actually prefer over the old start button in window7.

I have had my linux system running for months, and nothing buggy about them. I put it on a new machine with intel g2120 and been surfing on it intensely and watch netflix off of it, and rip blu-ray disc with it. I like it so much that I dual boot it with my main system. I have used wine for most of my graphic program, and then even found better graphic program that are free in Ubuntu. Skype from it and also **24** with it. I took **24** off of windows. **24** is riddled with virus and probing malwares. I even have 2 monitor running with it and compile a new setting for the resolution of one of the odd monitor. Over the years I dabble in linux and back off of it, but this time Zorin and Mint is so updated and easy to use, that I am actually using it more than my windows system. I still have some 3D animation program that will run on windows only. I can have 20 pages open under linux and it doesn't slow down a beat. at most using up 2gb of ram for the system. People say that linux user are for searching porn, and I would have to agree, because most of the virus are for windows, and hardly for linux. You really have control over the system under linux. I can search for porn without fear of mucking the system up.

My one suggestion for building a linux system is to get the Asus n13 wireless USB for wireless connection to the internet. It is one of the two hardware that is already compile in the newer linux that will automatically detect the USB wireless connection at the highest speed. Otherwise means of direct cable networking is fine.

Zorin also allows you to boot live from the CD rom without actually installing it into your system if you wanted to see how well it runs!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 04:33:46 AM by 3deroticer »
"Yesterday, Reince Priebus called this whole story a 'nothing burger,'" he said. "Well these emails have turned it into an all-you-can-prosecute buffet."

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Palomine

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2014, 05:59:29 PM »
Glad you're enjoying Linux 3D! :D After more than three decades using computers, it's now my OS of choice 90% of the time... my only regret is that I didn't give it a (serious) try sooner. ;)

Just a couple of points re: your post that I wanted to share in case anyone else is thinking of giving it a try (my points in yellow after yours):


I was looking at Mint and Zorin, as it was voted the best two linux system. I went with Zorin, because it had a option to make the system look like window XP with the typical start button that was missing on window8. I did find Pokki program that lets you install a typical start button that I actually prefer over the old start button in window7.

Most Linux distros (Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, etc...) allow for extensive tweaking of the GUI, some via built-in "themes" and controls, some via third-party tools (always free of course) and some distros actually come in different GUI/desktop releases (like Mint, most versions of which can be had in Cinnamon (my favorite), Mate, KDE and one or two other flavors). I've seen a few different Linux distros 'skinned' to look like Windows XP, and some skinned to look almost exactly like MacOSX (right down to system icons, fonts, on-screen GUI effects, etc...). I personally think that XP looks more than a little clumsy and ancient by contemporary standards but hey, whatever floats your boat! ;)

Quote
I have had my linux system running for months, and nothing buggy about them. I put it on a new machine with intel g2120 and been surfing on it intensely and watch netflix off of it, and rip blu-ray disc with it. I like it so much that I dual boot it with my main system. I have used wine for most of my graphic program, and then even found better graphic program that are free in Ubuntu. Skype from it and also **24** with it. I took **24** off of windows. **24** is riddled with virus and probing malwares. I even have 2 monitor running with it and compile a new setting for the resolution of one of the odd monitor. Over the years I dabble in linux and back off of it, but this time Zorin and Mint is so updated and easy to use, that I am actually using it more than my windows system. I still have some 3D animation program that will run on windows only. I can have 20 pages open under linux and it doesn't slow down a beat. at most using up 2gb of ram for the system. People say that linux user are for searching porn, and I would have to agree, because most of the virus are for windows, and hardly for linux. You really have control over the system under linux. I can search for porn without fear of mucking the system up.

Not sure that I follow you there completely, but if your point is that Windows users must be more vigilant when surfing, I agree. Malware (and trojans, and viruses, etc...) can be contracted from ALL kinds of sites/sources (not just porn sites ;)) and realistically, the more a person travels online, the greater the chance that they'll contract something IF they're not properly protected. In Windows, this necessary protection requires the use of various anti-virus programs, some free and some updated only on a paid-subscription basis. Given that the VAST majority of viruses, etc... are written to target Windows systems, Mac OSX and Linux users can be much less worried about wandering around the 'net clicking on stuff: I routinely click "proceed anyway" to google warnings about sites suspected of malware, etc... in Linux just like I did for years in OSX w/o any negative repercussions ever. Generally speaking, Linux (and OSX) users can say "virus schmirus!" :)

Quote
My one suggestion for building a linux system is to get the Asus n13 wireless USB for wireless connection to the internet. It is one of the two hardware that is already compile in the newer linux that will automatically detect the USB wireless connection at the highest speed. Otherwise means of direct cable networking is fine.

I've never had any issues re: wireless with any distro of Linux I've installed (Ubuntu, Mint, CrunchBang, Tails...) on any PC I've ever used, no matter how odd/old/esoteric (must be at least a couple DOZEN different machines by now). I'm not saying that every distro will support every conceivable bit of hardware right out of the box: of course it won't, but then again, IME Windows somehow manages NOT to work properly with various bits of hardware right out of the box either, even if the PC is recent and from a major manufacturer. Generally, the bigger (more popular) the distro (or the source from which it's derived) the better the hardware support may be. Of course, many distros have shared/similar roots (Ubuntu, Mint, CrunchBang and Tails are all Debian-based) so while not an absolute rule, there's a good chance that their range of hardware compatibility will be vaguely similar. In fact, I've only ever run across ONE PC on which I've been unable to successfully install/run/use Linux, and that's a high-end/home-built i7 PC. I'm still working on that one. ;)

Quote
Zorin also allows you to boot live from the CD rom without actually installing it into your system if you wanted to see how well it runs!

That's not a feature unique to Zorin: quite a few Linux distros allow "Live" booting from CD/DVD or USB flashkey (including Ubuntu, Mint, CrunchBang...) so you can "test drive" Linux on a PC without installing a single thing. Of course it'll be slower, since optical drives are considerably slower than hard drives or SSD).

---

Attached later is a nice graphic that I ran across while reading about Zorin (which, in a nutshell, is a Linux distro for Linux newbies/that's extra easy to install/use and purposely decorated to look like Windows XP) that shows all the various flavors of Linux that are based on Ubuntu, which is itself based on Debian: http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/ubuntu-and-debian. So, while all the distros in this graphic (aka infographic, a term I dislike for no particular reason) are "offspring" of Ubuntu, Ubuntu itself is sourced from/based on Debian, which has spawned a wide variety of distros in addition to Ubuntu (such as Edward Snowden's personal favorite operating system: Linux Tails, which runs everything through Tor for privacy protection). Here's a link listing some Debian-based distros, of which Ubuntu is merely one: https://www.debian.org/misc/children-distros.

While I understand how such an abundance of choice could be off-putting or intimidating to a novice user considering switching to Linux, it needn't be. Just because there are a zillion esoteric/specialized flavors of this OS it doesn't mean that it's hard to install or use... it's certainly not. If the embarrassment of choices is overwhelming, just ignore it: you needn't concern yourself with Lubuntu http://lubuntu.net/ (unless you want to use a smaller/older/weaker PC) or Sabily http://www.sabily.org/website/ (unless you're an observant Muslim and want your OS to reflect that), or the Satanic edition, etc... You can just be "conservative" and stick with one of the major distros like Ubuntu or Mint or daddy Debian itself. :) Believe me, if Microsoft suddenly made Windows open-source and allowed anyone to modify and re-release it freely without cost, you can bet there'd be hundreds of flavors of it too. :)

---

Added later still: zoinks! I found an even better/bigger graphic by the same fellows that shows an even bigger picture... not just going back past Ubuntu (the limited scope of the graphic attached to this post) to Debian, but also the extensive family trees based on Red Hat, Slackware, etc... Here's a link to it (most of the names of the distros are actually active links): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg and I'll try to remember to attach it to a future post about Linux when 1-1-1 allows. :) BTW, here's the link of the Wiki article where I found it if you want more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 05:24:05 PM by Palomine »

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Palomine

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2014, 05:23:24 PM »
Attached to this post is the more complete Linux family tree mentioned in my previous post, scaled down, converted to .jpg and (cruelly) compressed to fit here (for longevity purposes).

Currently displayed in this post (via external hotlink) is the .svg version (uncompressed, with nice sharp text, but without active hotlinks for the various Linux distrobutions). Treat yourself to the .svg displayed in a new browser tab/window instead, complete with working links: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg


« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 05:33:01 PM by Palomine »

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3deroticer

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2014, 12:17:51 AM »
pretty much use the Linux 90% of the time.

What are your thoughts on 32 bit vs 64 bit? and I think that might be my issue in getting my funky usb wireless working. I had problem with using netgear n600 usb wireless.

Disclaimer: I really, really like Linux, but have only been using it full-time for a relatively short while, so I'm hardly an authority. With that said...

I'm not certain, but logically, I'd be surprised if choosing between the 64-bit and 32-bit builds of otherwise identical versions of the same Linux distribution made much difference in the support for various bits of hardware in a system beyond the 32 vs 64 bit thing (same applies for regular 32-bit vs. 32-bit non-PAE (expanded memory addressing) versions of a given Linux like CrunchBang). I see that the wireless device you mention is one of those little dongles you plug into a USB port to give wireless to a PC that doesn't have it built in. I've used these on various PCs and Macs and can tell you that support for them isn't ideal even in Windows or MacOSX (I've got two: one by I/OGear and the other from someone else)... neither work on the old G4/OSX10.4 Mac connected to my home sterro no matter what I've tried.

Certainly, you can go to your favorite Linux user forum specific to the distribution you're using and search/ask for advice there specific to your wireless adapter or just google your distribution name/version AND the manufacturer/model of the adapter and maybe you'll find a new driver or some workaround or something. Or (long-shot) you could call Netgear's tech support and ask them, though the moment they hear the word "Linux" most techs tend to tell you that "you're on your own." Personally, those adapters regularly sell for like $10 or so (sometimes free with rebate at Fry's now and then, which is how I got both of mine) so before you spend too much time/effort trying to get yours to work, you might consider:

Getting one that you know (from forum posts) already works with your distro/setup.
Using a wireless NIC (network interface card) instead, assuming you've got a free slot ...still, VERIFY that it'll work w/your setup before you buy it.
OR, do what I ALWAYS PREFER and just use an ethernet cable to your hub/router: it's safer, faster and easier. -Pal
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 11:40:21 AM by Palomine »
"Yesterday, Reince Priebus called this whole story a 'nothing burger,'" he said. "Well these emails have turned it into an all-you-can-prosecute buffet."

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3deroticer

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2014, 03:25:35 PM »
Silo3D modelling program just been updated to support Linux14, this last month, and they been dormant for several years and had thought to have been abandon. It was encouraging to see that it supports only 64bit Linux OS.

Maybe windows 8 dismal sales, and WinXP drop support have brought out the Linux fever? 
"Yesterday, Reince Priebus called this whole story a 'nothing burger,'" he said. "Well these emails have turned it into an all-you-can-prosecute buffet."

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TheZookie007

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Re: Installing my first Linux day after tomorrow..
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2014, 01:41:13 AM »
The other day I spent the longest time I ever have had at one sitting with a PC that had Ubuntu installed on it (IIRC it was 14.04.1 LTS Trusty Tahr). It was pretty cool. I had practically no problems finding my way around the interface, and didn't need to search through a single manual or anything.

My newly-acquired gently-used MacBook Pro is definitely gonna have Linux installed on it (most likely dual-boot with Mac OS X). I am very impressed :)
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