[FlapJackFun]

Quote:
FangBlade said:
I've only delurked a handful of times on this board, but what's going on in this thread is ridiculous.  TheOtherMacman has stated time and again that everything he says is his opinion, and in my opinion, put forth evidence and reasons why he believes so.  Just because it happens to be that he believes Hitomi has implants everyone has to jump down his throat, even with repeated disclaimers that its only his opinion (or the facts as he sees them).  Yet on the other side we have several people screaming "What do you know?  Hitomi says they're all real, so they ARE real!"  I find it even more ridiculous that these people are allowed to repeatedy make such proclamations and nobody cares that those people are attempting to make factual statements without any evidence other than the model's word (as if we know Hitomi and her word is 100% reputable).  Of course she's going to say she's all real, since that's what sells in Japan where her DVDs are released.

But you know what?  So what if they're real or fake.  Isn't all that matters that she looks great?  If you disagree with an opinion you can't you do it without attacking people?  Can't we get this whole thread back on track?

I'm sure someone will come in here and attack ME now for pointing out the sheer ridiculosity of the current conversation.  Well, I'm happy to be a free punching bag if it will just make some of you take two seconds and think about what the heck it is that's going on in here.

Now...back to Hitomi...My DVD order won't arrive for 3 or 4 more days!  

To be honest, my beef with TheOtherMacman wasn't about Hitomi, it was about everytime there is a new busty Japanese idol, he goes off on his tangents about how they can't be real.  It doesn't matter if they are real or fake, I agree.  However, what is sad is that without any evidence he has to make defensive assumptions about every new girl, because if Sachiko is fake, they all must be.  
You also have to keep in mind, that Japan is not like the West.  Do you know how little interest there is for breast augmentation surgery here?  I would be willing to say it is like 1 in 50,000 women that actually do it (if that).  The only Japanese woman I know that got a boob job did it when she was in LA, and is basically americanized.  Enhancement or reduction is just simply not something on the minds of Japanese women.  

Not to mention, because of the culture here, lying or hiding the truth about something doesn't really happen in the workplace here. If she were fake it would not be something she would try and hide.  Lying, especially about it would completely jeopardize her career, not because of implants, but because she tried to deceive the public.  Some may say I am being naive, but those that have lived/worked here for as long as I have know what I am talking about.   Girls like Harada Ourei have no problem admitting that theirs have been enhanced.  And she sells DVDs like hotcakes.

Even though FangBlade won't trust her for her word, at the beginning of this video she explains how she started wearing an E-cup bra in middle school and then goes on to chronologically list how her bra size changed from year to year until her current size (which interestingly enough she says she is an I-Cup, not J).  So I guess if she had implants all those around her that have known her for a long time are good at keeping secrets, right?

And lastly, just watch the video, I mean seriously, implants do not jiggle around like that.  The last time I saw jiggling like that was in the the turbulence scene in the movie Airplane with the jello and that ladies knockers.  

[linsey_fan]

To be really fair to Hitomi, it might have been a good idea for you to actually wait to view her whole DVD before forming an opinion and presenting it here. Remembering what Jana had to go through to convince everyone she was natural, I think fans should be very careful and respectful before throwing accusations around based on rather limited evidence (to me anyway). Natural busty models rightfully take great pride in the fact that they are natural and they at least deserve the benefit of the doubt, until proven wrong with strong evidence.

For now, I'll take YokoLover's opinion since he's actually seen the whole DVD. I'm also convinced by the jiggle in the few seconds of the YouTube video of the attached screen cap.

That being said, let's try to concentrate on more pics of this phenomenal new discovery.

[toomuch]

I couldn't care less if they're real or enhanced -- she's a cute girl with beautiful breasts (that jiggle very attractively) and an overall beautiful body to boot.

I'd rather have Fuko for my girlfriend, though.

[TheOtherMacman]

Quote:
To be honest, my beef with TheOtherMacman wasn't about Hitomi, it was about everytime there is a new busty Japanese idol, he goes off on his tangents about how they can't be real.  It doesn't matter if they are real or fake, I agree.  However, what is sad is that without any evidence he has to make defensive assumptions about every new girl, because if Sachiko is fake, they all must be.  
You also have to keep in mind, that Japan is not like the West.  Do you know how little interest there is for breast augmentation surgery here?  I would be willing to say it is like 1 in 50,000 women that actually do it (if that).  The only Japanese woman I know that got a boob job did it when she was in LA, and is basically americanized.  Enhancement or reduction is just simply not something on the minds of Japanese women.  

Not to mention, because of the culture here, lying or hiding the truth about something doesn't really happen in the workplace here. If she were fake it would not be something she would try and hide.  Lying, especially about it would completely jeopardize her career, not because of implants, but because she tried to deceive the public.  Some may say I am being naive, but those that have lived/worked here for as long as I have know what I am talking about.   Girls like Harada Ourei have no problem admitting that theirs have been enhanced.  And she sells DVDs like hotcakes.

Even though FangBlade won't trust her for her word, at the beginning of this video she explains how she started wearing an E-cup bra in middle school and then goes on to chronologically list how her bra size changed from year to year until her current size (which interestingly enough she says she is an I-Cup, not J).  So I guess if she had implants all those around her that have known her for a long time are good at keeping secrets, right?

And lastly, just watch the video, I mean seriously, implants do not jiggle around like that.  The last time I saw jiggling like that was in the the turbulence scene in the movie Airplane with the jello and that ladies knockers.  

How many times do you have to say the same thing, and how many times do I have to point out that I have cited several slim and stacked Japanese models who are in fact natural. As such, your assertion about my motives is demonstrably false, given that I clearly do not think all slim and stacked Japanese models are fake. If you actually had read what I have written in the past, you would see I was a very strong advocate of Jun Kusanagi, who was the ultimate slim and stacked freak, but IMHO all natural.

What's more, I have provided hard evidence to support my position, whereas you have only provided obvious naivity and gullibility. The Japanese porn producers almost always create these back stories for their new implanted models - they did this with Akira Fubuki for example, even though she had quite obvious implants. And once again, underfilled smooth saline implants absolutely do jiggle like that - this only shows your ignorance of implant surgery types and techniques.

It is very obvious you simply want to believe in your fantasy no matter what evidence there is to the contrary. That's fine, but don't attack me for trying to get to the facts of the matter - even if I am wrong, I am the only person in this debate dealing in hard evidence. If you want to prove me wrong, provide hard evidence to support your case, not hearsay and ignorance.

[TheOtherMacman]

Quote:
linsey_fan said:
To be really fair to Hitomi, it might have been a good idea for you to actually wait to view her whole DVD before forming an opinion and presenting it here. Remembering what Jana had to go through to convince everyone she was natural, I think fans should be very careful and respectful before throwing accusations around based on rather limited evidence (to me anyway). Natural busty models rightfully take great pride in the fact that they are natural and they at least deserve the benefit of the doubt, until proven wrong with strong evidence.

This is a fair comment, but it is very clear to me from the clips I've seen that Jana really is natural. Hence, using the same evidence that I used to form my opinion that Jana actually is natural (how amazing!), I have also formed my opinion that Hitomi is fake.

[JustMeMike]

I have ordered the Hitomi Tanaka DVD -
I also ordered the new Fuko (Eight Series from Layfull) but its release date is 11-18.
And I ordered one of the new Yoko Matsugane DVDs and that release date is 11-20.

So I figure I am about two weeks away from receiving the shipment.  After that I will offer my opinion on whether or not I liked the DVD.

I'll not offer any comments on Hitomi being real or fake -

Mac is entitled to his opinions and others are entitled to challenge or disagree
with him. Sorry Mac - watching the DVD clip does not constitute hard evidence . If this was a court of law, you ( or I) might be a witness to offer 'expert' testimony; but this isn't hard evidence - it is only testimony which a jury can believe or not.

Hard evidence would be;
Surgical records
Hospital records
all of which would be protected under doctor/patient privilege.

So we aren't going to see such records.

All of which means you are free to state your beliefs. Again and again if you like. But it is still just an opinion. And there will be disagreement.

So you have to decide to walk away from the discussion or to keep it going.

But as I have found out - just from discussion with Zatoichi, I like certain DVDs and he doesn't. I like certain models and he doesn't, Our tastes and our likes and dislikes should be important only to ourselves.

Lots of people read my reveiws and some agree and some don't. But no matter how many agree with me or disagree, none of that will put one penny into my bank acct to enable me to buy a Yoko, Fuko, or Hitomi DVD.

As for the other side of the argument, made by those who disagree with you, may I suggest that many of you should BUY Hitomi's DVD. The greater the number of DVDs sold, the greater the likelihood is that other producers will offer her contracts for more DVDs.

Fuko, by January 2008 will have released 12 DVDs in 13 months.

My point is that if enough people buy her DVDs it will indicate that she is popular, and that is the only thing that will matter. Mac's opinions, or mine or yours will all be moot if she doesn't get more contracts.

JMM


JustMeMike's New Also on Video

[TheOtherMacman]

Quote:
JustMeMike said:
Mac is entitled to his opinions and others are entitled to challenge or disagree
with him. Sorry Mac - watching the DVD clip does not constitute hard evidence . If this was a court of law, you ( or I) might be a witness to offer 'expert' testimony; but this isn't hard evidence - it is only testimony which a jury can believe or not.

Hard evidence would be;
Surgical records
Hospital records
all of which would be protected under doctor/patient privilege.

So we aren't going to see such records.

All of which means you are free to state your beliefs. Again and again if you like. But it is still just an opinion. And there will be disagreement.

Hi Mike. You are absolutely right of course, in the strictest sense. I guess when I said "hard evidence", what I meant was actual evidence of some sort, as opposed to the hearsay and emotion on the other side of this debate. So yes, "hard" evidence is an overstatement, but at least I do have evidence of some sort to support my case, which cannot be said for my detractors.

You are also right that "expert" evidence would be a more accurate way to put it, but then I'm sure everyone would attack me for proclaiming myself to be an expert!

[JustMeMike]

 

Quote:
Hi Mike. You are absolutely right of course, in the strictest sense. I guess when I said "hard evidence", what I meant was actual evidence of some sort, as opposed to the hearsay and emotion on the other side of this debate. So yes, "hard" evidence is an overstatement, but at least I do have evidence of some sort to support my case, which cannot be said for my detractors.

You are also right that "expert" evidence would be a more accurate way to put it, but then I'm sure everyone would attack me for proclaiming myself to be an expert!  
 

Hi Mac -

Sorry - again your statements based upon a view of the clip:
assuming a large bit of knowledge from watching many DVDs
assuming a first hand knowledge of a specific woman's surgery
assuming a certain skill in quantifying wobble & jiggle
assuming certain knowledge or skill in displacement characteristics
do not constitute evidence about Ms Tanaka.

You have no evidence.
Nor do those who based their statements contrary to yours have evidence.

Let's leave the word evidence out of the discussion.
As for calling yourself an 'expert' - you didn't I did.
And if I watch 10,000 idol DVDs (I HOPE NOT) I will not be able to provide evidence about Ms Tanaka. I might be able to discuss the validity of the idol genre as an art form but it would only be opinion not fact.

Now even If I met Hitomi Tanaka I still could not provide evidence. Depending on  the length of the relationship, I might be able to provide evidence, but though I've been to Japan a number of times, I am still not expecting to meet her.

Zatoichi on the other has attended the events sponsored by the production houses. Over here in the states they'd be called launch parties, or premiers. I know for a fact that he has met, talked to and been photographed with Rio Natsume, and Nonami Takizawa. But on the basis of those meetings he could not offer evidence either.

This is why we cannot resolve this through discussion as none of us has the evidence.

If someone reading this is Ms Tanaka's - lover, agent, doctor, husband, or insurance agent, or even producer...we might get some discussion from one of them a lot more factual than what those of us in this forum call our opinions.

JMM

[TheOtherMacman]

Quote:
Hi Mac -

Sorry - again your statements based upon a view of the clip:
assuming a large bit of knowledge from watching many DVDs
assuming a first hand knowledge of a specific woman's surgery
assuming a certain skill in quantifying wobble & jiggle
assuming certain knowledge or skill in displacement characteristics
do not constitute evidence about Ms Tanaka.

You have no evidence.
Nor do those who based their statements contrary to yours have evidence.

I think now we are getting into pointless and silly semantics. Observations backed up with empirical knowledge do constitute a form of evidence in the general sense, but I agree it isn't truly "hard" evidence. Your previous example of an "expert" witness in a trial is a good example: the court accepts this as a form of evidence, and that is (as you previoulsy stated) roughly equivalent to the information I have provided. However, "hard" evidence would require something roughly equivalent to fingerprints on a murder weapon (or something like that), which I obvioulsy don't have, and nor are we ever likely to get it. Hence, "circumstantial" evidence is the best we have to go in this case. Certainly, hearsay and ignorance or not something the court would ever accept as "evidence"!

[Snatchy]

Great, another ruined thread.

[FlapJackFun]

Quote:
Snatchy said:
Great, another ruined thread.

agreed...thanks a lot TheOtherMacman...

[TheOtherMacman]

Quote:
FlapJackFun said:

Quote:
Snatchy said:
Great, another ruined thread.

agreed...thanks a lot TheOtherMacman...

As FangBlade said, all I did was state my opinion that Hitomi had implants. It was you who needlessly took offence at my harmless comments and turned it into a huge debate, and made the same baseless accusation as to my motives three times over, even though your accusation was demonstrably false.

Once again, the double standards here are simply unbelievable.

[zeo]

Quote:
all I did was state my opinion that Hitomi had implants. It was you who needlessly took offence at my harmless comments and turned it into a huge debate, and made the same baseless accusation as to my motives three times over, even though your accusation was demonstrably false.

Once again, the double standards here are simply unbelievable.

Your first post opens up in a way that basically has you come across as if we are all morons and you're the one with true knowledge.

Quote:
 I vowed never to post here again after the hostile response I got last time to letting people know that a model did in fact have implants, but I feel I have to respond to this one

I think the way many people reacted to it is entirely normal, expected, and human. I tried to ignore it, but it still came across that way to me as well.

I think you would have had an entirely difference response if you opened up with something more like 'I hate to say this, but I think she probably has implants'.... That gives a much different feeling. It is true the rest of the post attempts to undo the damage done in the first paragraph, but it's done and the knee has already jerked.

[YokoLover]

Anyways.....

I don't think the thread has been ruined but merely derailed; here's something to help bring it back on track. Only a screenshot, but nice to look at nonetheless:

[TheOtherMacman]

Thanks YokoLover, that could be the best shot yet!

Anyway, I think everyone's said their piece now, so let's get back to Hitomi!