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Q_BE

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2008, 03:10:16 PM »
It's topics like this that get me incensed, because there is this feeling that the Dow Jones Industrial Average is only the "rich" people's money, that only the "rich" are going to be hit, and that the "rich" deserve to take it on the chin.

The people with money, the "rich" people, are the ones making financial choices that influence the rest of the private sector. If you hit the rich, you hit the rest of the private sector. When you hit the rich, you hit the venture capitalists, the people who gamble with money to try to make more money. And people think this is a good thing: "Good riddance, he's got enough money already! He's taking money off the poor's backs!"

If you believe that: FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL.

The economy is NOT a zero-sum game. The people engaged in the economy are constantly investing their time and energy to make MORE WEALTH than there was before. Time = Money, and with 300,000,000 people investing their time everyday in the creation of wealth (except for the government liberals), wealth has abounded for years and years, because people were given the incentives to create wealth by getting tax cuts which allowed them to keep more of their own money, percentage-wise, than they had had before.

What do they do with this wealth? They INVEST, they VENTURE into new opportunities, putting people to work, creating jobs, and creating a flow of wealth to people who get those jobs. It's the underpinning of Reaganomics--trickle-down economics--that money flows from the top-down, not the other way around.

Think of money like the water cycle. Time and the sun's energy is inputted to the water, say the oceans, causing the water to evaporate into the atmosphere. In the same way, time and energy is spent by corporations (and small businesses) in producing goods and services that people want to buy, and, for the sake of argument, people buy them.

That water which evaporated condenses into clouds—some big, some small–that contain the water, and which carry the water from place to place. The small clouds vastly outnumber the big clouds, so the vast majority of rain is produced by small clouds. In the same way, money is collected by the businesses which sell the goods and services, hopefully for a profit, and therein they take that money, pay the people who helped them produce the goods and services, and take the additional money (PROFIT) and either re-invest in the business, or give profits to stockholders via dividends.

The rain has therefore been taken from those who have water (the oceans and clouds) and given to places that need water (landmasses, rivers, lakes, etc.) And you know what? That water eventually re-evaporates or trickles down into the oceans, where it is recollected and the cycle starts all over again. Meanwhile, areas that needed water got water, and the rain cycle sustains life as we know it.

In the same way, by the businesses paying the people who helped produce the products or services, and by giving dividends to stockholders, ultimately, the money that the corporations make goes back into the economy, benefiting a whole host of people along the way.

So, when you hit the rich, you really hit the poor. The stock market is just the after-effects of this happening. So, delight in the misery of people—it's not going to produce one more dollar, one more barrel of oil, and is not going to solve any problems. The free market is adapting to the roadblocks thrown in its way by the US government and world politics, so be sure to thank your Democratic Congress for really helping the US economy. It's the least they've done for us.

Q-"A rising tide lifts all boats; a sinking tide drops all boats"-BE

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DruulEmpire

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2008, 03:54:38 PM »
I take it even more directly than that, Q.  These days, just about everyone's fortunes are directly tied one way or another to this -- by retirement plans, by mutual funds, by whatever you've got going with your bank.

It wasn't so long ago that people could scoff "Oh, what's this really got to do with anyone?" and they had a sliver of an excuse by virtue of not being invested.  But these days, chances are, you are invested one way or another whether you recognize it or not.

Personally, I'm not really crowing about the current bad patch.  I think it's been coming and needs to be seen through.  It's like a bout of nausea: you can sense it coming from very early on and wish it wouldn't, but you may as well ride it out.

I also think we may be beginning to see something quite radical begin to develop -- but that's a whole other thesis, and I will leave that be.

Anyhow -- as of today's close it's official.  Eight months after hitting an all-time high of 14164, we have dialed back some 2800 points all the way down to the record highs established in late 1999.

I'm still hoping we can stay above 11111 -- but it's looking like that could be tight.

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Bonkers

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2008, 05:01:03 PM »
Rich or the mega rich I call them, love all this. Right now is buying up all the blue stock’s of major or small companies dirt cheap and just to sit on it till it just right enough for them to sell for a major profit. because they have money resources to do so. whereupon the blue and white collar workers can't do so, without taking a beating.
I remember one rich investor who sold his gold stocks for a nickel profit. but he had millions of gold stocks, so a nickel on each stock total a cold profit to buy into another stock, adding it all up. they know what their doing and not telling the public.
Remember back in the depression of 1929, The Rockefeller’s, Kennedy’s, Dupont’s and all the other mega rich families brought up all people who lost their houses, lands, farms or whatever for peanuts, knowing quite well it will sell for a profit in time.  It took years, even decades but they made their profit bones of others.
Like they say the stock market is nothing but a gambling casino and the rich own the house and make the rules.
Bonkers

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Q_BE

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2008, 05:03:01 PM »
Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less.™

That'll get our oil-based economy jump-started and enable us to remain prosperous while the private sector discovers the long-term solution.

Q-"How about Bugs Crapping Crude?"-BE

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Q_BE

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2008, 05:11:52 PM »
Quote:

Bonkers said:
Rich or the mega rich I call them, love all this. Right now is buying up all the blue stock’s of major or small companies dirt cheap and just to sit on it till it just right enough for them to sell for a major profit. because they have money resources to do so. whereupon the blue and white collar workers can't do so, without taking a beating.
I remember one rich investor who sold his gold stocks for a nickel profit. but he had millions of gold stocks, so a nickel on each stock total a cold profit to buy into another stock, adding it all up. they know what their doing and not telling the public.
Remember back in the depression of 1929, The Rockefeller’s, Kennedy’s, Dupont’s and all the other mega rich families brought up all people who lost their houses, lands, farms or whatever for peanuts, knowing quite well it will sell for a profit in time.  It took years, even decades but they made their profit bones of others.
Like they say the stock market is nothing but a gambling casino and the rich own the house and make the rules.
Bonkers



FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL.

Re-read my above post. The rich are getting shellacked, and in the process, so are the poor. The rich may be able to get along, but if the rich can't keep the engines of this economy running with their investments, it's the poor who suffer as a result of the government throwing up roadblocks and, in some cases, actually supplanting the natural economic processes I described above.

Q-"Economics 101"-BE

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pedonbio

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2008, 06:55:01 PM »
Quote:

DruulEmpire said:
I take it even more directly than that, Q.  These days, just about everyone's fortunes are directly tied one way or another to this -- by retirement plans, by mutual funds, by whatever you've got going with your bank.

 




Don't I know it! I was going to retire a few years ago, back when Amazon was selling for $200 and MS was about the same. I was actually retired for about a year...
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.

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pedonbio

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2008, 06:56:36 PM »
Quote:

Q_BE said:
Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less.™

That'll get our oil-based economy jump-started and enable us to remain prosperous while the private sector discovers the long-term solution.

Q-"How about Bugs Crapping Crude?"-BE




You're kidding, right?
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.

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Q_BE

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2008, 07:26:15 PM »
Quote:

pedonbio said:
Quote:

Q_BE said:
Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less.™

That'll get our oil-based economy jump-started and enable us to remain prosperous while the private sector discovers the long-term solution.

Q-"How about Bugs Crapping Crude?"-BE




You're kidding, right?



Not a bit.

Q-"Renewable Petrol: Bug Farms on the March"-BE

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Hiram

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2008, 02:21:43 AM »
Quote:

Q_BE said:
It's topics like this that get me incensed, because there is this feeling that the Dow Jones Industrial Average is only the "rich" people's money,


Not at all.  I can see my pension ebbing away in front of my eyes.

I think part of the problem with the recent downturn is the Fractional Reserve banking system we use, where money is created to produce debt. It is inevitable at some point once the money supply has reached a critical  mass that things will implode.  

Oil is in great supply, so consequently the price is higher.  This is capitalism, get used to it.  

As far as the dow getting to 11111, I see this as a buying opportunity - its not a failure, but rather a correction.  As stock falls it gets easier for someone like me, an average Joe to buy it.  But I'm a saver not a consumer, and I saw this coming. I deleveraged so I have the cash, I'll be buying stock at some point once I feel we've reached the bottom.  

 
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AZWolf

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2008, 04:42:35 AM »
My income has been doing this for a while.  I'm so glad that George Bush's boys investing in the DOW finally see our country is doing the same....So sorry all his rich boy tax breaks didn't involve you.  
Dawn, n.  The time of day when men of reason go to bed.

Pray, v.  To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.

          --  Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"


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DruulEmpire

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2008, 04:55:02 AM »
Hiram officially has the right idea about why I embarked on this thread -- although the opportunity for discussion is not lost on me.

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AZWolf

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2008, 05:00:02 AM »
Quote:

DruulEmpire said:
Hiram officially has the right idea about why I embarked on this thread -- although the opportunity for discussion is not lost on me.




Yes -- I can only say usefully so here.  
Dawn, n.  The time of day when men of reason go to bed.

Pray, v.  To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.

          --  Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"


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SwitcherX

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2008, 01:42:58 AM »
Quote:

Bonkers said:
Like they say the stock market is nothing but a gambling casino and the rich own the house and make the rules.




Casinos have a edge against you, the markets are level.  The rich don't own them.  Countless rich people have become not rich in the markets.
Switcher X
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Hiram

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2008, 12:46:13 PM »
Looks like today could be the day...
Lipsmacking, thirst quenching, ace tasting, motivating, good buzzing, cool talking, high walking, fast living, ever giving, cool fizzing... #BOOBs

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pedonbio

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Re: Next Stop Dow 11111
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2008, 01:30:57 PM »
Quote:

SwitcherX said:
Quote:

Bonkers said:
Like they say the stock market is nothing but a gambling casino and the rich own the house and make the rules.




Casinos have a edge against you, the markets are level.  The rich don't own them.  Countless rich people have become not rich in the markets.




"The only sure way to make a small fortune in the market is to start with a large one."--Louis Ruckeyser
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.