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DruulEmpire

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #480 on: November 02, 2008, 11:17:16 AM »
Quote:

notty said:
Quote:

DruulEmpire said:
You're weary of the coverage?  Heck, at least you can turn the coverage off.  I'm weary of the ROBOCALLS.  The Reps manage to get one or two a day onto my machine.  If I were a swing voter, that tactic would inspire me to swing, all right -- AGAINST them.




Oh, yah, I forgot to mention the robocalls, the junk mail, the activists standing on street corners, the bumperstickers, the 30 minute infomercials, the public service announcements, and the conversations initiated by family, friends, acquaitances, and random strangers...




Well, let's see -- the junk mail is as easily chucked as leaving the coverage off, and I actually wanted to catch the one infomercial I'm aware of but never got to, plus I must be lucky -- especially for a Pennsylvanian -- in that I haven't bumped up yet against street corner activists (is Spatula City in a swing state? ).

But I'll grant you that there are too damn many public service announcements, enough to make you want to do nothing but check out the Cartoon Network for "The Venture Brothers."  "The Daily Show" made good parody of that, comparing the Obama campaign to some weird remake of the movie "Brewster's Millions."  (Eh, I got a kick out of that.)

Can't help you with bumper stickers, though -- at that point, we're not talking about coverage of the campaign, we're talking about its EXISTENCE.  In fact, I'll see your bumper stickers and raise you a whole other medium -- LAWN SIGNS.  There's been quite a war of paper in my neighborhood.  (This has also admittedly been a bad year for stickers -- I still miss "Gore Lieberman 5761" and "ReDefeat Bush.")

And believe it or not, you're not alone on the family front.  My homefront was "YOU MUST SUPPORT HILLARY."  My sister got to lead the curve by silently supporting Obama -- while conveniently living in another state.

But ultimately, I've got to confess that cherri's offer is untrumpable.

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notty

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #481 on: November 02, 2008, 12:36:15 PM »
Quote:

DruulEmpire said:
And believe it or not, you're not alone on the family front.  My homefront was "YOU MUST SUPPORT HILLARY."  My sister got to lead the curve by silently supporting Obama -- while conveniently living in another state.




My step-dad is black, hence, both he and my mother are voting for Obama.  They do not know that I am probably not voting for him.  Consequently, whenever they try to draw me into a political conversation, AWKWARD!  I don't have the heart to tell them that I just don't find the guy very compelling.  But...I can say the one thing I will look forward to on election day is their jubilation over Obama's victory.  I'll put on my happy face for them and pretend like everything is great.  They deserve that much, I suppose.
To paraphrase Poul Anderson, "Intelligence is a wonderful thing. It provides us with reasons for doing what we were going to do anyway."

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gOOber

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #482 on: November 02, 2008, 12:58:19 PM »
Quote:

notty said:
Quote:

DruulEmpire said:
And believe it or not, you're not alone on the family front.  My homefront was "YOU MUST SUPPORT HILLARY."  My sister got to lead the curve by silently supporting Obama -- while conveniently living in another state.




My step-dad is black, hence, both he and my mother are voting for Obama.  They do not know that I am probably not voting for him.  Consequently, whenever they try to draw me into a political conversation, AWKWARD!  I don't have the heart to tell them that I just don't find the guy very compelling.  But...I can say the one thing I will look forward to on election day is their jubilation over Obama's victory.  I'll put on my happy face for them and pretend like everything is great.  They deserve that much, I suppose.




Just saying.  
....rejoicing in the fullness thereof....

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notty

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #483 on: November 02, 2008, 01:28:55 PM »
Ah, the "even if you don't like Obama you should vote against McCain" argument.  I haven't heard that one before.  

Okay, since I'm an undecided voter two days before the election, make your best pitch, Obama people.  Impress me!  Win my vote!
To paraphrase Poul Anderson, "Intelligence is a wonderful thing. It provides us with reasons for doing what we were going to do anyway."

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SwitcherX

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #484 on: November 02, 2008, 02:15:18 PM »
Quote:

notty said:
Quote:

SwitcherX said:
You're apathy arouses me.




You are still in the dog house.




want me to sniff your crotch?
Switcher X
A.K.A. Tina Fey Eichmann

"Thank you herr professor Tina Fey Eichmann, nuclear brain surgeon and moustache jockey."
-- Mammeister


"SwitcherX, you were always Mammeister's favorite...you bastard."
-- Notty

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DruulEmpire

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #485 on: November 02, 2008, 02:41:10 PM »
I guess I'm an "Obama person," though I backed into it -- I was for Biden first (so I'm pleased he's back), then I wanted Edwards (before he proved to suffer that dreary typical Clinton-style tendency to dip his quill in the wrong inkwell), and then I did back Hillary (my father is a former university history department chairman, and he still teaches, so it's easy to yield to him) -- but now I've come to back Obama, though for reasons which might alarm my parents.

But, Not (may I call you Not?), I'm going to try to resist the ego trip of assuming you're some blank slate waiting for the right bromide or jingle from me to turn you around 180 degrees, if only because I recall your claiming that you picked out a single passage from his "Hope" book and concluded that he could only be the appearance of a blank slate.  If you find that one datum just too damning, then any counterclaims are going to seem pointless.

(Everyone please wait -- more coming via editing -- )

The funny thing is, just now I was flipping around cable and I settled on TV One.  TV One is a black-oriented channel which I frankly hardly ever look at -- but it had an hour coming up of one Roland S. Martin (there's a TV fisherman Roland Martin who fished with Bush, so I guess the distinctive S. is important) asking questions of his own and his audience's of Obama.

Now, you might expect that this would be nothing but a sunny smiling infomercial lovefest, but in fact it was one of the better interviews I've seen -- not because Martin is that great, but because Obama seemed much more freed up than we usually see and hear him.  He was asked how he could balance being for "black issues" and issues from the rest of us, and he replied that there are aspects of being African-American which are universally positive assets, such as a deep and progressive faith.  At the same time, though, he said that the culture needs some housecleaning, and he immediately went to the issue of homophobia.  He said it should be possible to have both progressive politics as well as the Sermon on the Mount.

In other words, there are indeed particulars to this man for anyone with the genuine curiosity to listen for them -- much as McCain made for a fascinating profile in October's Atlantic Monthly, one which made it all the sadder for me to realize that I can't elect a man who ultimately seems to believe that any ground won in Iraq somehow conveys victory backwards in time to Vietnam.

Not, I can't speak to or for all the people who for you are ultimately detractors -- the street corner activists, the giggly young "true believers," those in your family who are basically thinking "At last, one of ours is getting in."  But for whatever it could be worth, I can tell you what I see.

Is he the next FDR?  I think he's ultimately, for all the hype, too centrist for that -- and that may be a shame, because we may be due for an FDR.  Is he the next JFK?  In obvious ways, of course not -- he's no Naval hero, he never wrote anything to rank with "Why England **84**" or "Profiles in Courage."

(sorry, everyone, still working on this -- more yet to edit -- )

But he DOES remind me of JFK in terms of the sheer acuity and scope of mind and facility with ideas, which become all the more clear in a more open than usual setting like that TV One interview.  I'm not talking about his character, I'm not talking about his niceness -- we're electing a bureaucrat, not a Pope.  I'm talking raw talent.

I find that important.  Biden is only partly right, he will be tested -- but not just because he's some "test magnet."  He'll be tested because the test has already begun, at the hands of Bush leaving.  In times like this, I think of how we lucked out getting Kennedy to lead us during the Cuban missile crisis.  It's a crisis worth studying.  Kennedy got together a council, he stood alone against an immense military push to launch World War Three, he was up against a Kremlin divided against itself, and he navigated an intricate and delicate path towards -- not much, but hell, at least it wasn't World War Three.

And that's what I see when I see Obama, very much that same style, that same attitude.  I think we need that back.

There's been a lot of hype about change.  I think the man is really quite centrist, and that we may really not get ENOUGH change.  And of course, of course, at some point he'll break our hearts, they all do.  But as much as I would appreciate change, there's a bigger reason I'm voting for him.

I'm voting for him to keep the hell alive.

(All right, that's it.  Done editing.)

(Eh -- sort of.  By the way, midsize makes a good point too. )

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BarnacleBill

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #486 on: November 02, 2008, 02:41:44 PM »
Hey notty, you are an amazing woman, and so I'm not offended at all if your better senses lead you to rise above all this bullshit.  I do believe that some people are just plain better than all the rest of us and those people (like you) should not be bothered with the sticky, incompetent fumblings of the rest of these fools.

  However, that being said, please vote Obama if you do vote.  Why?

1.  The Repubs were in total power (Pres, House, Senate) from 2000-2006.  What can you or anyone point to during those years that was a positive accomplishment?

2.  Obama is truly from the grassroots community organizer level.  He is not a political shill or hack.  He has seen and led grassroots change.  Its not just bullshit.  

3.  How great would it be to send a message to the world, that America's biggest skeleton in the closet (racism) has just been dealt a possibly fatal blow when we elect a half-black man?

4.  Obama is not owned/controlled by Big Business. The entire Republican party is. True, obama must "play by the rules" of Big Business, but obama will play hardball.

5.  Obama will really try to do some historical stuff, some kind of healthcare reform, maybe tax reform, Obama will try to really change things.  McCain will only try to spread the war to Iran probably.

6.  Do you want Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency?

cheers, and do whatever you feel.  I trust the instincts of notty far more than i trust the workings of bureaucratic washington.
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

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midsize

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #487 on: November 02, 2008, 02:57:39 PM »
Fill in the blank:

If you don't already know why you should vote for ___________, you probably shouldn't.

It's not that tough a decision. Vote for the candidate whose politics best agree with yours. If none of them do at all, stay home.

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notty

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #488 on: November 02, 2008, 03:05:24 PM »
Quote:

midsize said:
If none of them do at all, stay home.




If I stay home, TheZookie's head might explode.
To paraphrase Poul Anderson, "Intelligence is a wonderful thing. It provides us with reasons for doing what we were going to do anyway."

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notty

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #489 on: November 02, 2008, 03:15:13 PM »
BarnacleBill, I love your endless flattery!  You are probably my favorite male specimen on the boards.

But truly, I'm no big whup.  Just a girl with anger issues and a fetish for massive breasts.

Anyway, you make some excellent points.  I'm not really convinced Obama will do much of what he claims he will do, but I do believe he will not do what he says he will not do which might do well enough.
To paraphrase Poul Anderson, "Intelligence is a wonderful thing. It provides us with reasons for doing what we were going to do anyway."

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midsize

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #490 on: November 02, 2008, 03:18:51 PM »
Quote:

notty said:
Quote:

midsize said:
If none of them do at all, stay home.




If I stay home, TheZookie's head might explode.




The Zookie is a many-headed beast, and as fast as you cut them off, they regenerate  

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Bonecracker

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #491 on: November 02, 2008, 03:24:48 PM »
 Gadzooks, folks, he's right!  I can't believe I missed that all this time.

Cheekiest regards,

Bone...  


WARNING:
This post may contain items including, but not limited to, sarcasm, irony, hyperbole intended to bring humor to this discussion. Those of you without a sense of humor, best ignore my posts.
There's a lot of internet out there, be sure to look around!

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midsize

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #492 on: November 02, 2008, 03:31:14 PM »
Seriously, though...

People get too hung up on trying to make the exactly right decision about presidential candidates, when there isn't one. In the end, McCain's tax plan vs Obama's tax plan isn't really going to affect you that much, nor probably any other detail of their proposals. Neither one will 'save' America, nor will either one 'destroy' it.

However, it's clear from the last 8 years that the President's overall ideology can have a huge effect on the country. For those who love W, he's done a great job because he's done what they wanted done. For the rest, well...

That's what I mean about choosing the one whose politics match yours. Nobody can convince you to vote for Obama; you have to make up your mind what you believe, what you want done with the powers of the Presidency, then choose the candidate who you think comes closest to that. You have to convince yourself to vote for Obama. If you can't, then you shouldn't. The challenge isn't to choose the 'right' one, it's to make your decision for the right reasons

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notty

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #493 on: November 02, 2008, 03:46:00 PM »
Dru...may I call you Dru?  

TheZookie already chastized me for taking the blank screen comment out of context, although when he posted the entire paragraph, I didn't see much improvement.  Not damning, just not for me...

Anyway, thank you for the thoughtful reply.  I wasn't around for FDR or JFK, and I'm a devout atheist, but the other points you make seem reasonable.
To paraphrase Poul Anderson, "Intelligence is a wonderful thing. It provides us with reasons for doing what we were going to do anyway."

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notty

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #494 on: November 02, 2008, 03:51:54 PM »
Quote:

midsize said:
Nobody can convince you to vote for Obama; you have to make up your mind what you believe, what you want done with the powers of the Presidency, then choose the candidate who you think comes closest to that. You have to convince yourself to vote for Obama. If you can't, then you shouldn't. The challenge isn't to choose the 'right' one, it's to make your decision for the right reasons




It's a pity not everyone feels this way.  The last few months might've been tolerable.
To paraphrase Poul Anderson, "Intelligence is a wonderful thing. It provides us with reasons for doing what we were going to do anyway."

notty's breast augmentation thread