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SwitcherX

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5415 on: November 09, 2016, 12:34:56 PM »
So much went wrong according to the news here in the US.

I don't see how that could've happened.  The press were in Hillary's pocket the whole time.


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I personally do not trust ANY survey.  My personal experience is that those giving surveys ignore results they don't like to get closer to what they want the 'survey' to show.

How did Clinton lose? My opinion :

1. She didn't play to win.

 A few stories now coming out; No large crowds, at her small rallies she talked more about how bad Trump was, to talk about her plans or vision.  All I ever got from her adds was how bad Trump is as a person ( not a news flash ).  No explanation of what she wanted for the US.  They COUNTED on the general hatred for Trump to carry the day.

She played to win.  She's been dreaming of being president since Bill got in the White House.  Trump outplayed her.  He constantly took control and made her respond to him instead of doing what she wanted.


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2. They didn't count on the general hatred of Hillary.  There are people I work with that the way they talk about Hillary it's as if she personally shot everyone in the Lybia. 

Wikileaks showed that even her own staff weren't too thrilled with her.


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3. There are men out there that will never vote for a woman, not for President.

Whereas no one said that they would never vote for Trump?  Please...


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4. Young voters think Trump can carry out his promises.  One I know is now waiting for Trump to put Hillary in jail; that will never happen.  The office of President does not have that power.  If they can prove she committed a crime, nail her.  Trump will find out what the limitations of the office are.  They think he can clean up Washington?  Yea right, keep dreaming.

Just like those starried-eyed people that voted for a community organizer back in 2008.  Remember all of the stuff he said was going to happen because he got elected(oceans receding, etc.)?  The opposite happened.


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I don't trust him, don't like him, didn't vote for him.

More people felt the same way about Hillary.  Probably because she's utterly corrupt.


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The incoming clusterfuck can be endured.  With hope and luck a true leader will come forward next time around.

It can't be any worse that 8 years of Obama.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 12:39:19 PM by SwitcherX »
Switcher X
A.K.A. Tina Fey Eichmann

"Thank you herr professor Tina Fey Eichmann, nuclear brain surgeon and moustache jockey."
-- Mammeister


"SwitcherX, you were always Mammeister's favorite...you bastard."
-- Notty

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Ninjaturtle

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5416 on: November 09, 2016, 07:02:48 PM »
Now I have to hear this twat talking for 4 fucking years. We need to get our shit together and elect a real human in 2020.

Last week I started a great new job that will change my life, in so many positive ways. My favorite team won the World Series. I was on cloud nine.

All destroyed by Donald CUNT shitting his way into the white house.

I wish I were dead.

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rtpoe

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5417 on: November 09, 2016, 07:09:00 PM »
My take?

Looking into the analyses as they were being given in real time, Trump was winning in the "exurbs" - the areas around the cities, but not close enough to be suburbs. The classic "Middle America" small towns, like Lakeland FL, Johnstown PA, Sandusky OH..... The places that still have yet to see any visible effects of the Obama Recovery.

If I can plug my blog here, I wrote about this last month: http://pureblather.com/2016/10/19/how-can-anyone-still-be-supporting-this-guy/

These people weren't really voting *for* Trump or *against* Clinton as they were voting against the party that hadn't even bothered to acknowledge their concerns for eight years..... Take a look at that map from the Economic Innovation Group - the recovery has been in the usual "blue" areas. Yes, there are good reasons for a recovery starting in the cities, but how long do the exurbs have to wait?

At least that's what I'm going to tell myself. The alternative, that America really is that ignorant and that racist and that misogynist and that xenophobic, is too dreadful to contemplate.

Sadly, even in the best of outcomes, the Trump campaign has given a new voice to all the racists and haters in our country. Heck, just looking at the gloating coming from his supporters in the various news article comments threads......

Thank god Stephen Colbert was on it.



And do not forget.... Mid-term elections in about 720 days. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance

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moobs

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5418 on: November 10, 2016, 12:15:58 PM »

What hurt Clinton was her inability to connect with those who hate this politically correct, multicultural, globalized balderdash which so many have convinced themselves is inevitable. People like having nations, not global institutions.

No, she screwed herself over when she made an enemy of her own democratic base when she and her ilk falsely....and I'll say it again FALSELY accused them of being racists, sexists, and communists. And the NV "chair throwing" incident was the worst of it as the Dem party was screwing over progressives by breaking their own protocol to make sure Hillary had the most delegate and Barbara Boxer calling them misogynists and blowing them kisses while she ran to the cameras how she was "terrified" for her life. Good things for cell phone cameras.

On top of that, she was a cheater to boot. Election groups found out she stole over 170 delegates from Bernie and in California alone 15% of Bernie votes were flipped illegally. Make ya wonder how many votes on election day were her own.

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Bramlet

  • 3994
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5419 on: November 10, 2016, 04:25:08 PM »
Zealots enter every and any public stage, after a few years they cool down. Circle of life.
So happened to GW Bush, Obama, Reagan and all these guys.

Relax. Sereneness.

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SwitcherX

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5420 on: November 10, 2016, 05:12:34 PM »
The fuck???

I just read that New Hampshire, Michigan, Arizona, and parts of Maine haven't officially declared who won yet.
Switcher X
A.K.A. Tina Fey Eichmann

"Thank you herr professor Tina Fey Eichmann, nuclear brain surgeon and moustache jockey."
-- Mammeister


"SwitcherX, you were always Mammeister's favorite...you bastard."
-- Notty

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rtpoe

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5421 on: November 10, 2016, 10:43:36 PM »
The fuck???

I just read that New Hampshire, Michigan, Arizona, and parts of Maine haven't officially declared who won yet.

They're possibly waiting for absentee ballots. Or something like that (mail-in ballots can get lost, you know).

Anyway, I want to take this opportunity to thank the 40% or so of the nation's eligible voters who DID NOT VOTE in the presidential election. I hope you're happy.

I went and looked into the official results, as posted at Politico (but I'm sure you can find the numbers in many places). Here are the narrowest margins of victory for Trump that I found:

Florida - 119,770
Everyone's favorite Gary Johnson collected 206,007 votes in the Sunshine State. Nice work!

Pennsylvania - 68,236
That's less than half of what Gary Johnson got (142,643 votes).

Wisconsin - 27,257
Jill Stein and the Green Party got 30,980 votes. Thank you!

Michigan - 11,423
It seems that Darrell Castle collected 16,925 votes in that state. Who is he, you may well ask. He was the nominee of the Constitution Party. I know nothing about them.

Flip any one of those states, and it's damn well likely that we'd have a President Clinton. Look, third parties are very welcome. If you really believe in them, go ahead and vote for them. That is your right and privilege; I won't stop you.

But casting a "protest" vote in an election with such stark choices as this one.... Good God, man!
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance

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rtpoe

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5422 on: November 10, 2016, 10:53:25 PM »
People are still trying to come to grips with the concept of a Trump presidency. And it's not a pretty sight. Even if he somehow manages to be sane and rational, surrounds himself with sane and rational advisers, moderates his political agenda, and doesn't embarrass the nation any further, there are still some things that are going to happen no matter what.

He has already emboldened racists and bigots, and the GOP pretty much has free rein to do what they want in Congress.

It doesn't look good for us.

But there are things we can do to at least mitigate the damage.

Protest, but protest effectively

Yes, it's cathartic to march down your local Main Street. It gets you in the local papers. But no one outside of your local area is really going to hear about it, and all you're really doing is pissing off your neighbors by getting in their way. If you want the government to notice, go where they are. Protest in DC. March in your state capital. Let your elected officials SEE you up close and in person.

Hire your own lobbyist

"Wait, WTF? How am I supposed to find and pay for someone to hang around Washington all day, badgering people? Come on!" No, I don't expect you to do that. But you can look up lobbying organizations that you agree with, and donate. The ACLU. Planned Parenthood. The Sierra Club. The NAACP. They are already hard at work, why not pay them so that they can work harder?

Petition the government for a redress of grievances

It's right there in the First Amendment. You can write / call / e-mail / text your Congressional representatives and give them a piece of your mind. You're probably thinking, "What good will that do? They don't listen!" Let me ask you this. Have you ever wondered why the NRA is so successful as a lobbying organization? They keep an eye on ALL the legislation being considered in Congress, and whenever something they think is relevant comes up, they send out alerts to their members - complete with bill number, dates it comes up for a vote or goes into committee, the names of key committee members, the whole lot. That makes it easy for their members to act.

Most of you, I'll wager, think only of sending general boilerplate letters to your Congressmen. How much more effective - how much louder - would your voice be if your particular representatives got letters and phone calls every single day for weeks before a matter came up for a vote? And you specifically mentioned the exact piece of legislation, complete with official name and number?

It's not hard to find out what they're up to. You can start here.

Remember that all politics is local

We spend far too much time worrying over what's going on in Washington while forgetting that our state and local governments play a significant role, too. Minimum wages, marriage laws, marijuana legalization, assignment of Congressional districts, voting rules, even economic development initiatives come out of your state capitol. Bother your state government, too!

And don't forget your local government, either! Show up at the next town meeting and ask your mayor or city council what they plan to do about the rise in hate crimes.

Don't abandon the Democratic Party

I know, it's far too easy to just toss them aside as being useless and head for the Libertarians or Greens. Right now, that will do nothing other than divide the Opposition. And that's something that we cannot let happen. The GOP is teetering, too. The sane ones there have to realize what they let the nut cases do, and are just as afraid as the rest of us. The GOP Congress is also going to be fighting Trump tooth and nail over who actually does control things. Remember all the arguments over Obama's "abuse" of executive orders? Do you think the GOP is going to sit back and let Trump do the same? And they are facing a demographic collapse. Young people aren't joining them, and America is getting less and less white. They may be happy now, but the future isn't looking good. Party leaders and officials cannot help but see the writing on the wall.

And even then, the next mid-term elections are only about 720 days away. Do you really think that the Libertarians or Greens are going to get their acts together in time to come up with even ONE candidate for Congress who has more than a snowball's chance in hell of winning? Look, the Democrats have just been socked in the gut. They are down, and hurting. You can bet that the party bosses are trying to figure out what to do next, and how to reshape the party in time for 2018. Instead of kicking them when they're down, why not get involved and help create Democrats 2.0? They've already got the national organization in place, with fundraising mechanisms and information sources. Why toss all that aside?

Fixing the Electoral College

OK, this is sort of a breather before my closing argument. Look, we all know that the EC is an old and archaic system. But it has its uses. Ditching it entirely would take a Constitutional amendment, which isn't going to happen. Not enough states are going to give up the extra influence that the EC gives them. But the key thing is that nowhere in the Constitution does it say how a state must choose its electors. Study some of the alternative plans, and go after your state government to change things.

Never give up, never surrender!

There's the old line (attributed to Edmund Burke, but really by John Stuart Mill) that bears repeating:

Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. -  address at the University of St. Andrew (1 February 1867)

It is more than tempting to throw your hands up in surrender and try and hide for the next four years. But America cannot afford it. The world cannot afford it. You cannot afford it. Staring with Vietnam and Watergate, cynicism has spoiled our national political discussion. Failed economic programs, unending conflicts around the world, politicians who promise much more than they know they can deliver, lies about the big things and scandals over the petty ones....

It is lack of confidence, more than anything else, that kills a civilisation. We can destroy ourselves by cynicism and disillusion, just as effectively as by bombs. - Kenneth Clark, Civilisation

Remember that more people voted against Trump than for him.

Don't let the GOP or the Trumpsters forget that.

And maybe our long national nightmare won't be that long after all......
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance

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rtpoe

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5423 on: November 14, 2016, 09:19:42 PM »
So, how close an election was it?

"Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania account for 46 electoral votes. If Clinton had won these states, she could have sealed the presidency with 274 total electoral votes. This election was effectively decided by 107,000 people in these three states. Trump won the popular vote there by that combined amount. That amounts to 0.09 percent of all votes cast in this election."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/swing-state-margins/
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance

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Bramlet

  • 3994
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5424 on: November 15, 2016, 01:46:56 AM »
Close:

even one individual could have been the voice of decision...

Shit happens.

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StrikezOne

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5425 on: November 15, 2016, 09:33:02 PM »
Congratulations Donald J. Trump.

Such a simple comment yet no one here has yet to make it. Might be why the country is so divided? The true colors of the liberals are coming out, but more on that later.

We truly do live in an idiocracy. 

I can understand and see why one would be so quick to think this. But a Hillary presidency would also make a lot of people say the exact same thing.

1. A president for the special interests, big donors. Will continue wars for profit. Strip away constitutional rights. Represents big government and the plutocracy and oligarchy. Corruption. Why would people vote for this?

2. An outsider with no political experience and shows intentions of ending big government. A president for and by the people. Drain the swamp of political elites. Swing the pendulum back to the people and the states.

Idiocracy would have been which choice?

Now I have to hear this twat talking for 4 fucking years. We need to get our shit together and elect a real human in 2020.

Last week I started a great new job that will change my life, in so many positive ways. My favorite team won the World Series. I was on cloud nine.

All destroyed by Donald CUNT shitting his way into the white house.

I wish I were dead.

So you were on cloud 9 and now Trump winning has you wishing you were dead? Get pretty down on things when they dont go your way? Thats pretty extreme and selfish.

Anyway, I want to take this opportunity to thank the 40% or so of the nation's eligible voters who DID NOT VOTE in the presidential election. I hope you're happy.

I went and looked into the official results, as posted at Politico (but I'm sure you can find the numbers in many places). Here are the narrowest margins of victory for Trump that I found:

Florida - 119,770
Everyone's favorite Gary Johnson collected 206,007 votes in the Sunshine State. Nice work!

Pennsylvania - 68,236
That's less than half of what Gary Johnson got (142,643 votes).

Wisconsin - 27,257
Jill Stein and the Green Party got 30,980 votes. Thank you!

Michigan - 11,423
It seems that Darrell Castle collected 16,925 votes in that state. Who is he, you may well ask. He was the nominee of the Constitution Party. I know nothing about them.

Flip any one of those states, and it's damn well likely that we'd have a President Clinton. Look, third parties are very welcome. If you really believe in them, go ahead and vote for them. That is your right and privilege; I won't stop you.

But casting a "protest" vote in an election with such stark choices as this one.... Good God, man!

Now this is a typical liberal bullshit, backward ass, selective picking argument. The claim here is that the election was close and any of these states couldve gone to Hillary. Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin.

But what isnt mentioned, because it wouldnt help the argument, are the states that Hillary NARROWLY won that could "easily be flipped." Such as;

Colorado - 71,741
There were 8 third party candidates that got over 1,000 votes each, while Gary J. got over 125,000.

Maine - 20,035
Johnson and Stein got a combined +50,000 votes.

Minnesota - 43, 785
7 third parties. Each +1,000 votes. Johnson got 113,000 votes.

Nevada - 26,434
Johnson got +37,000.

New Hampshire - 2,732
Johnson got +30,000.

You see how liberals like to leave this shit out of their arguments? And in reality, third party candidates tend to be more conservative and share Republican views. So they actually steal votes from the Republican candidate! So that argument is full of FAIL.

Remember that more people voted against Trump than for him.

Don't let the GOP or the Trumpsters forget that.

I don't know. I mean how many illegal immigrants voted? Barack Obama got on camera and encouraged illegal immigrants to vote. How many dead people voted?

And oh yeah, did more people vote for Bernie Sanders than Hillary? Don't let to DNC and the Hillary supporters forget that!..... oh wait, lets ignore that.

Protest, but protest effectively

Yeah! Protest.... You know, we gave Trump shit for saying he wouldn't except the election results but lets protest!

Remember this liberals?
Imagine if Obama, Kamala, or Biden survived two assassination attempts and the media not publicly destroying the reputation of everyone who issued even the most mild criticism of them and then just dropping the story completely.

Yeah, I cannot either.

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gonZo

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5426 on: November 16, 2016, 05:12:47 PM »
I won't congratulate or accept a self-professed and proven racist, dealer in bad faith, assaulter of women, misogynist, and hypocrite.

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moobs

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5427 on: November 16, 2016, 08:45:23 PM »
I won't congratulate or accept a self-professed and proven racist, dealer in bad faith, assaulter of women, misogynist, and hypocrite.

Yet you would if Hillary had won, right? Even though she's all the things you listed and a proven cheater to boot.

Fun fact: The Clinton pushed Trump to run and colluded with the media prop him up as the republican nomination with boatloads of free advertisement. So, what happens in the next 4 years is on Clinton's, the DNC's, and the corporate media's hands from this point forward.

FYI, Hillary and Trump are right-wing psychopaths that have no right to be presidental candidates but anyone bashing Trump with mentioning how horrible Hillary was is a moral hypocrite and an ignorant partisan. And this is what happens when we let two evil corporate parties run our country.

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gonZo

  • pain in the ass moderator
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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5428 on: November 17, 2016, 07:33:15 AM »
I won't congratulate or accept a self-professed and proven racist, dealer in bad faith, assaulter of women, misogynist, and hypocrite.

Yet you would if Hillary had won, right? Even though she's all the things you listed and a proven cheater to boot.

No, I'm not a big fan of Hillary. Your issues are your issues; don't project them onto me.

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rtpoe

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  • 12423
Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5429 on: November 17, 2016, 10:23:39 PM »

But what isnt mentioned, because it wouldnt help the argument, are the states that Hillary NARROWLY won that could "easily be flipped." Such as;

Colorado - 71,741
There were 8 third party candidates that got over 1,000 votes each, while Gary J. got over 125,000.

Maine - 20,035
Johnson and Stein got a combined +50,000 votes.

Minnesota - 43, 785
7 third parties. Each +1,000 votes. Johnson got 113,000 votes.

Nevada - 26,434
Johnson got +37,000.

New Hampshire - 2,732
Johnson got +30,000.


OK, so basically what we are saying here is that the difference between Trump's votes and Clinton's votes is lost in the statistical noise of third party voting.....so we could have just as easily had a Rock-Paper-Scissors match.

But keep in mind that in the overall popular vote total, Clinton is leading by more than one million votes..... and there are still ballots being counted in California, Utah, Michigan, and Washington that officials in those states feel could push Clinton's lead to two million......

But of course, you're thankful that Crooked Hillary and her Foundation where people can buy access and influence are nowhere near the White House.

Except that Trump has some property near the White House that is already presenting a major conflict of interest.

You know that hotel in DC that he is actually leasing from the General Services Administration? Well, seems Trump Post Office LLC (an LLC owned by Trump and his children) is suing the District of Columbia over a tax assessment. DC says the property is worth $91 million; Trump is claiming $21 million. If it's worth the lower figure, it's Trump's own fault. He acquired the property for conversion into a hotel when DC is already glutted with luxury hotels. Then his campaign comments about immigrants pissed off the big name chefs who were expected to open restaurants in the hotel - they backed out (leading to another lawsuit from Trump...), so there are only two third-tier restaurants in the place. And a LOT of empty rooms.

Here's the problem: As president, he gets to appoint the head of the General Services Administration - the person and agency who will be negotiating any adjustments to the lease with Trump's family.... If that's not a conflict of interest, then nothing is.

And that's not all.

Trump has a record of fighting unions at his properties. He gets to appoint the members of the National Labor Relations Board, who are often called on to mediate disputes between management and labor.

AT&T is currently trying to purchase Time-Warner. Regulators are taking a hard look at the deal, which has a ton of anti-trust complications. Would CNN, which is owned by Time-Warner, be tempted to play nice with Trump to help make sure the deal goes favorably for them? Jeff Bezos owns both Amazon and the Washington Post. The Post has been extremely critical of Trump, and he has threatened them in the past. What's to stop Trump from directing the Federal Trade Commission to investigate Amazon's pricing practices?

"If there were a President who wished to pursue vendettas, the regulatory state would be the most direct and simplest way for him or her to do so. The usual presumption of ‘innocent until proven guilty’ does not hold in many regulatory matters, nor are there always the usual protections of due process." Tyler Cowen (http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/the-presidency-and-the-regulatory-state.html)

"When someone intentionally harms you or your reputation, how do you react? I strike back, doing the same thing to them only ten times worse." - Donald Trump, Think Big and Kick Ass

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/17/13626514/trump-systemic-corruption
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance