[Robin_K2]

What worries me most about Trump -- and I have many, many worries -- is that he will be able to launch nuclear missiles as easily he tweets at midnight.

I wish Congress would quickly enact legislation that requires oversight to launch. One man or woman should not have that much power. Surely everyone can agree on that.

[moobs]

No worse than Hillary starting WWIII with Russia on false information. Now that Obama suspended habeas corpus and made it okay to drone strike us citizens out the country without a trial, Trump has more free-ranging power than George W. Bush ever did. As my roommate would say...."Thanks Obama!"

[rtpoe]

"Now that Obama suspended habeas corpus and made it okay to drone strike us citizens out the country without a trial" [Citation needed]

If I'm recalling the incident correctly, the citizen killed in a drone strike was involved with a terrorist group, and was therefore engaged in warfare against his own country.

And as far as drones killing civilians, I don't like it either. But the terrorists we are targeting aren't wearing uniforms or doing other things to make them stand out easily on a field of battle. Warfare in the early 21st century is not going to be neat and clean. If you have some incredible way to identify a terrorist without accidentally picking up a few civilians or other non-combatants in the process, we'd love to know.

Drones are simply the best way right now to go after ISIS / ISIL / Daesh and the remnants of Al Qaeda. Sending in the huge amount of ground troops necessary to flush them out would take much more effort; one that I guarantee that neither you nor the American public would tolerate.

[solvegas]

What worries me most about Trump -- and I have many, many worries -- is that he will be able to launch nuclear missiles as easily he tweets at midnight.

I wish Congress would quickly enact legislation that requires oversight to launch. One man or woman should not have that much power. Surely everyone can agree on that.

Obviously you've never served in the military or know much about how the nuclear triad ( bomber launched cruise missile or gravity bomb, ground based ballistic missiles and submarine launched nuclear missiles ) actually work. NO ONE MAN CAN LAUNCH OR USE ANY NUCLEAR WEAPON. This is true as far back as the August 6, 1945 Hiroshima attack. While the President can order a retaliatory or even preemptive attack, it requires the cooperation of the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff , the commanding General and / or Admiral of the local squadron or submarine and the local officers which are in command of the end unit. I served on two ballistic missile submarines, USS Robert E. Lee ( SSBN - 601 ) and USS Michigan ( SSBN - 727 ) and I can tell you that it is freaking hard to launch a nuclear missile. It required three people, the CO ( Commanding Officer ), the XO ( Executive Officer ) and the Weapons Officer to all authenticate the message getting code books and keys from three different safes, whose combinations were only known to the respective officers, and the CO and XO were separated by fifteen feet and the Weapons Officer in a separate compartment, to turn the keys simultaneously and allow the weapons to be used. If any link of the chain of command is broken or refuses to follow orders, it ain't happening. So a Lieutenant Commander in a submarine could tell the President, " No sir, ain't doing it " just by not doing his job. Of course, if he is wrong, he will be tried for treason. So if you're worried about Trump, don't be. Worry more about Putin or Xi Ping whose countries don't have as many safeguards.

[gonZo]

(one post removed from this point in the thread)

[StrikezOne]

StrikezOne and Moobs - Where do you get your news from, then? And not from random conspiracy sites publishing bogus videos that claim to show how Real News is all faked. And not the garbage clickbait sites that bubble up to the top of your **24** feed. I mean real, verifiable, actual, factual INFORMATION.

What is real, verifiable, actual, factual information these days huh? You can be so quick to call something a conspiracy publishing bogus videos claiming to show how CNfuckingN is fake. How is that bogus?

I like to visit all sorts of sources. From ZeroHedge, to Drudge Report, to RT, to RonPaulLibertyReport, to Globalresearch.org, even Breitbart, amtv... Wikileaks... Liveleak, and I get news from bullshit liberal biased sources like Yahoo just to see how they cover a story. For example, if CNN and Yahoo say Bashar al Assad bombed civilians in Aleppo, then I figure it was more likely that it was Obama backed rebels who did it, not conclusively but for the most part, DUE TO PAST HISTORY, Yahoo and CNN and the like have a tendency to manipulate that type of thing.

Well, I do vary my news supply. The NY Times, Washington Post, USA Today, NY Post, NY Daily News, Mother Jones (which HAS been writing about the pipeline protests), Vox, Politico....

I suppose I should at least glance over a news periodical from the conservative side if I really want to consider myself fair.....

But I'm NOT going to trust a single word from any place on this list:

http://www.fakenewswatch.com/

What you pretty much admit to here is that your news source comes from corporate owned and Washington approved publications. That is pretty telling. Think about that for a second... Your news has to come from the 6 media giants. And you consider anything remotely independent as "garbage clickbait." I mean, I aint linking The Onion.


Then these same assholes who think their own viewers and readers are stupid create this list FOR YOU TO STAY AWAY FROM. Holy shit. I feel like you shouldnt come around here speaking so "matter of factly."

All you have proven is that you are a good prole and tries to shit on anyone who disagrees with you. Washington Post, NYT, CNN and all your favorites have shown their true colors, yet how many times has someone actually debunked Wikileaks?

I brought up "Spirit Cooking" and "PizzaGate" and yet someone like you will run to Politico or Snopes and read an article that some dipshit writes saying "...theyre not true, its conspiracy, we have no real proof that its not true and neither do they right? So just believe us because we know your stupid!"

PizzaGate, Andrew Breitbart tweeted this in 2011 just before he mysteriously died. And Washington is sure doing a fuckton of damage control on something that allegedly has zero foundation. Kinda makes you think.... but of course, people like you are too smart and know everything and just toss this aside because its BULLSHIT.

"Now that Obama suspended habeas corpus and made it okay to drone strike us citizens out the country without a trial" [Citation needed]

Look up "NDAA indefinite detention."

And as far as drones killing civilians, I don't like it either. But the terrorists we are targeting aren't wearing uniforms or doing other things to make them stand out easily on a field of battle. Warfare in the early 21st century is not going to be neat and clean. If you have some incredible way to identify a terrorist without accidentally picking up a few civilians or other non-combatants in the process, we'd love to know.

This is just justifying something that is so grand in scale, yet same people who justify and defend Obama to death will micro-nitpick at anything Trump does. Typical.

What worries me most about Trump -- and I have many, many worries -- is that he will be able to launch nuclear missiles as easily he tweets at midnight.

I wish Congress would quickly enact legislation that requires oversight to launch. One man or woman should not have that much power. Surely everyone can agree on that.

Obviously you've never served in the military or know much about how the nuclear triad ( bomber launched cruise missile or gravity bomb, ground based ballistic missiles and submarine launched nuclear missiles ) actually work. NO ONE MAN CAN LAUNCH OR USE ANY NUCLEAR WEAPON.

Thank you for this. I am pretty sure you have claimed to NOT be a Trump supporter but at least it is good to see that the fearmonger tactic of the left doesnt work on all Trump detractors.

__________

Here is the REAL fake news list.

[moobs]

And as far as drones killing civilians, I don't like it either. But the terrorists we are targeting aren't wearing uniforms or doing other things to make them stand out easily on a field of battle. Warfare in the early 21st century is not going to be neat and clean. If you have some incredible way to identify a terrorist without accidentally picking up a few civilians or other non-combatants in the process, we'd love to know.

So your solution is to gunning down innocent families in cold blood like the Nazi gestapo and creating more terrorists seeking revenge on America thus creating more threats mean more drone strikes that kill more innocent people thus more terrorists in an endless cycle of fear, violence and blood with no sign of peace in sight spending trillions of dollars on warfare while our country's infrastructure, schools and utilities go to sh!t?! Jeez, this kind of thinking is why American is so f*cked up. Would you be saying these things if your family was shot down the same way by the police or American troops?

Oh yeah Obama's now bombing Somalia: https://youtube.com/v/77CcQQjj2Ao

Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Syria
Yemen
and....Somalia.

Where's that guy whose signature include that included a counter that went from Iraq to Iran when W was president, we need to put that up again cause I think Iran is next before Trump comes into office.

[StrikezOne]

Oh yeah Obama's now bombing Somalia: https://youtube.com/v/77CcQQjj2Ao

Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Syria
Yemen
and....Somalia.

And Pakistan.
And Lebanon.
And Sudan.

[gonZo]

HEY EVERYBODY! ATTACK THE MESSAGE, NOT THE MESSENGER!

Please try to express your opinions without making them into personal attacks on the guy to whom you're responding. I don't want to remove posts from this discussion, but unless you keep it civil, I have to. The forum's owner doesn't want people in here flaming each other. (I won't edit your posts, because then I'd be putting words in your mouths. Posts either abide by the rules, or they may get removed.)

This isn't directed at anybody in particular. I don't totally agree with any of you about the state of the republic or truth or politics (or whatever they have become) at this point in time, so there's no partisanship motivating me. I want you all to be free to express your opinions; just please do it without getting in each others' faces.

Thanks,
_
gonZo

[andrat2000]

I pretty much got an impression already. It's like stalinism without communism. But everyone has to abide the 5-year-plan. No critiques allowed. The alt-right is always right. Everyone is asked to wait until the glory of a bright new future becomes visible - if it makes sense or not doesn't matter, because the alt-right is always right.

We need to build a fire protecting wall around Europe to avoid THE MADNESS fully swap into Europe.

[andrat2000]

@StrikezOne: the list in your last picture is this a cleansing / hunting list? Because from European Nazi organisations I know they create these lists right now too. You can see this happening in their blogs, comment sections etc. Once they get to the power they want to use them they say. I mean Nazi's are experienced with these lists. They did the same with putting Jews, gypsies, disabled persons or even political opponents on these lists in Nazi Germany.

[StrikezOne]

I pretty much got an impression already. It's like stalinism without communism. But everyone has to abide the 5-year-plan. No critiques allowed. The alt-right is always right. Everyone is asked to wait until the glory of a bright new future becomes visible - if it makes sense or not doesn't matter, because the alt-right is always right.

Uhh.. No. The current state of affairs or better yet, the status quo in the US for the past decade has been that the left is always right. The alt left is always right. The alt left enforces their views upon everyone and anyone who disagrees in the most polite way possible is racist, bigot, sexist, etc.

@StrikezOne: the list in your last picture is this a cleansing / hunting list? Because from European Nazi organisations I know they create these lists right now too. You can see this happening in their blogs, comment sections etc. Once they get to the power they want to use them they say. I mean Nazi's are experienced with these lists. They did the same with putting Jews, gypsies, disabled persons or even political opponents on these lists in Nazi Germany.

Once again, this is incorrect. The list that rtope provided is the list that the mainstream media is cracking down on. Independent media is being witch hunted. People who control the tippy top do not want average joes and janes to look at any alternative media.

So you got it the other way around.

[andrat2000]

For me many of them are not alternative news, but plain gossip. Gossip that in the past the village idiot spread, but in online media times he can spread his gossip world wide and find similar fans and followers. Well if this is what they want, they can do as long as they do not damage or threaten people with it. But they can't expect that the rest of the people just want to her the same gossip.
For example I regularly remove such gossip news sources/channels from my smartphone. I don't want to become indoctrinated by gossip or even worse by coordinated, orchestrated, directed gossip that wants to fog my mind and insert bullshit into it.

[StrikezOne]

For me many of them are not alternative news, but plain gossip. Gossip that in the past the village idiot spread, but in online media times he can spread his gossip world wide and find similar fans and followers. Well if this is what they want, they can do as long as they do not damage or threaten people with it. But they can't expect that the rest of the people just want to her the same gossip.
For example I regularly remove such gossip news sources/channels from my smartphone. I don't want to become indoctrinated by gossip or even worse by coordinated, orchestrated, directed gossip that wants to fog my mind and insert bullshit into it.

If you categorize alternative media as gossip, then compare it to a "village idiot" just trying to spread his gossip, then the corporate media has you right where it wants you.

Can corporate owned media not indoctrinate you by coordinated, orchestrated, directed gossip?

[rtpoe]

For me many of them are not alternative news, but plain gossip. Gossip that in the past the village idiot spread, but in online media times he can spread his gossip world wide and find similar fans and followers. Well if this is what they want, they can do as long as they do not damage or threaten people with it. But they can't expect that the rest of the people just want to her the same gossip.

And the worst part, for all of us trying to live in reality, is that there is so much gossip that responsible journalists cannot keep up with disproving it. The fact checkers just get drowned out in the flood of incoherence.

Witness this clip from a CNN report a few days ago:



A woman is firmly convinced that three million illegal aliens voted in the election, just as you or I are certain that the sky is blue. She cannot tell where she got that information from, but she firmly believes it to be true. And then she cannot admit to being wrong when given proof that her statement that President Obama said that illegal aliens could vote was based on a fake report (from FOX Business News, which isn't surprising, given how much they despise Obama and the Democrats).

Sane and rational people are drowning in the bullshit. It's a sort of Gresham's Law for information. It's easier to spread rumor and lies; telling the truth - with supporting evidence - takes time and effort.

And in today's world, where a Presidential Press Release is only 140 characters, anything real gets the "tl,dr" treatment.

The really bad - and I mean BAD and not just sad or irritating - thing is that we NEED good and honest journalism as much as we always have. We NEED to know our president-elect's ties to foreign businesses and governments, so we can know when he's putting his personal interests ahead of the country. We NEED the public to understand the trade-offs necessary to make the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act work. We NEED people to understand how the Carrier deal was a drop in the bucket, and that such deals are no substitute for real policy. We NEED people to realize why Coal isn't coming back.

If we cannot be bothered to find, read, and support those reporters doing the Good Work of researching and interviewing and verifying, then we are letting Willful Ignorance triumph and just sliding down the ramp to full-blown Idiocracy.