[andrat2000]

At least the french people voted for a president who values democracy. Thanks to the french people!

[gonZo]

My impression regarding the AHCA is that Trump is primarily concerned with burning down the legacy of Barack Obama. If anyone doubts his racism: Trump's father was a member of the Ku Klux Klan, and even after the (semi) success of the Civil Rights Movement, Trump's realty company wouldn't rent to non-whites until the New York City Commission on Human Rights and the U.S. Justice Department sued to force them to. He couldn't stand the thought of a black president while Obama was in office (even after his bullshit claims about Obama's birth certificate became a joke), and now that Trump is president, he's going to try to undo everything Obama accomplished.

Bonus for republicans: making healthcare five times more expensive for people over 50 will kill off a lot of older citizens before they reach qualification age for Social Security and Medicare.

Vive la France!

[Hiram]

At least the french people voted for a president who values democracy. Thanks to the french people!

I congratulate the French people on their new president. 

More than 25% of the electorate abstained from voting, while a record 11.5% of ballots were left blank or spoilt. Not an overwhelming endorsement then.

It is early days yet for Macron, I certainly feel he has some challenges ahead. Hollande started off well, but it all went down hill after a while. I have a feeling Macron will go the same way.

He has campaigned for a reduction of 120,000 public sector jobs and a cut in pubic spending of €60bn - I can't see that going down well to be honest. But we'll see I guess.

[andrat2000]

If anyone doubts his racism: Trump's father was a member of the Ku Klux Klan,  ...

That's like Goebbels son (if they wouldn't got executed by his fathers command in the last days of WW II) would have become German chancellor. Unbelievable!

Did the voters for Trumpel knew this fact before? And they still voted for him?

[andrat2000]

At least the french people voted for a president who values democracy. Thanks to the french people!

I congratulate the French people on their new president. 

More than 25% of the electorate abstained from voting, while a record 11.5% of ballots were left blank or spoilt.

It is early days yet for Macron, I certainly feel he has some challenges ahead. Hollande started off well, but it all went down hill after a while. I have a feeling Macron will go the same way.

He has campaigned for a reduction of 120,000 public sector jobs and a cut in pubic spending of €60bn - I can't see that going down well to be honest. But we'll see I guess.

Yes it is difficult for him, but if he isn't such an ignorant like Hollande it will work for him. He anyway needs to make consent with the socialists and conservatives. And until now he seems much brighter than Hollande. So I trust him to manage it.

[andrat2000]

It's even worse than this seems: they made sure to exclude themselves from the provisions of the Trumpcare 2.0...meaning while 24 million of their constituents are liable to die they will be a-OK.

As usual, when they accuse the Democrats of doing something ("DEATH PANELS!!!"), that is what they are doing themselves. Such evil people.

Warren Buffet is opposing this Trumpel-Disaster-Care, because it will relieve especially the very rich. He said in his example it would have reduced last years tax by a whopping 17%.

Something more to add by Trumpel voters?

[Hiram]

So I trust him to manage it.

I hope so. He is more business friendly than Hollande it seems. 

Macron was a former investment banker, so I'm expecting a move to the right in France. He has said he's going to reform pensions as well as a big cut in public spending. I feel more optimistic for France.

I like France, I've been there many times, but I'd not like to start a business there - you still have to pay taxes even if you make a loss...

[andrat2000]

So I trust him to manage it.

I hope so. He is more business friendly than Hollande it seems. 

Macron was a former investment banker, so I'm expecting a move to the right in France. He has said he's going to reform pensions as well as a big cut in public spending. I feel more optimistic for France.

I like France, I've been there many times, but I'd not like to start a business there - you still have to pay taxes even if you make a loss...

What is bad on paying taxes?
Let's asume I have a company with a turnover rising from 1-10 Mio. € over the last 10 years, but every year end with a loss of 10-50k€. Why should that company not pay taxes? I don't see a good reason for it except that society helps to build up someones fairly large business by not asking for taxes. Doesn't make sense to me. That company is using infrastructure that is paid by general public like everyone else. So they should pay taxes like everyone else.

[Hiram]

What is bad on paying taxes?

Well if a company doesn't make a profit; then said company has no earnings, and so shouldn't pay tax. Turnover isn't profit.

If I start a business (I have done) in the first few years it is difficult to make a profit. My understanding is, in France you pay taxes anyway. I personally wouldn't risk starting a business on those terms. 

I do agree however if a company abuses this by declaring profits somewhere else, as eBay does in the Luxembourg  then this is fundamentally wrong.

[andrat2000]

What is bad on paying taxes?

Well if a company doesn't make a profit; then said company has no earnings, and so shouldn't pay tax. Turnover isn't profit.

If I start a business (I have done) in the first few years it is difficult to make a profit. My understanding is, in France you pay taxes anyway. I personally wouldn't risk starting a business on those terms. 

I do agree however if a company abuses this by declaring profits somewhere else, as eBay does in the Luxembourg  then this is fundamentally wrong.

The owner and at the same time CEO of that fictional company in the 1st year had a salery as CEO of annually 100k€ and subsequently raised it to 500k€ after 10 years. He pays taxes for this salery but by very smart constellations he reduces his income tax a lot because he does some other inverstments (outside that other company). And this year over year .... sure he might at one point pay taxes when he got profit out of that investments, but maybe he is much smarter  ...

... than the average employee of company xyz who also has 100k€ income, but instead has a family and a house to pay and ends up 10-20% points above that other guys taxes.

In my opinion it is still good that the fictional company from the beginning still has to pay taxes. So I agree tricking shouldn't be possible and therefore it isn't wrong either if a company has to pay taxes even the made a annual loss.

By the way best example how the general public pays for a billionaire who made bad business decissions is Mr. Trumpel. He should have paid taxes instead of declaring a loss and then for a decade most likely have close to ZERO taxes. This is unfair to the general public. Obviously in his case owners are not made accountable for bad business decisions, but in my opinion they should. Yes it makes owning a business harder, but it makes it also much more fair to general public who pays taxes.

[Hiram]

The owner and at the same time CEO of that fictional company in the 1st year had a salery as CEO of annually 100k€ and subsequently raised it to 500k€ after 10 years. He pays taxes for this salery but by very smart constellations he reduces his income tax a lot because he does some other inverstments (outside that other company). And this year over year .... sure he might at one point pay taxes when he got profit out of that investments, but maybe he is much smarter  ...

But that isn't how it works in the real world.  I would say 99% of new start ups make no profit in the first few years. So your example is erroneous. 

I bet Apple, Google, all made no profit for years -  I suspect if they'd have been taxed in the early stages they'd have folded before they even got going. But they sure make money now.

As a small business I have become very tax efficient. But I pay all my taxes. But at first I needed a little help.

[andrat2000]

The owner and at the same time CEO of that fictional company in the 1st year had a salery as CEO of annually 100k€ and subsequently raised it to 500k€ after 10 years. He pays taxes for this salery but by very smart constellations he reduces his income tax a lot because he does some other inverstments (outside that other company). And this year over year .... sure he might at one point pay taxes when he got profit out of that investments, but maybe he is much smarter  ...

But that isn't how it works in the real world.  I would say 99% of new start ups make no profit in the first few years. So your example is erroneous. 

I bet Apple, Google, all made no profit for years -  I suspect if they'd have been taxed in the early stages they'd have folded before they even got going. But they sure make money now.

As a small business I have become very tax efficient. But I pay all my taxes. But at first I needed a little help.

Then extend the example ... that fictional company already had 10 years to grow before my example and then really has a steep growth.

Other thing is many people try to make a business in an area where profit is hard to generate. Or they had a miserable business plan. Why should the general public pay for this?

Well I could accept that taxes in the first 5 years are seen as loan (no problem if it is only 2% of annual interest rate) but still they would need to be paid later. If after 5 years they can't pay their actual taxes and start to pay the loans, then they had a crappy business plan and maybe in first instance shouldn't have started the business.

It's like the companies of building cleaners or security agencies paid here in Germany wages that were terrible low. When the government wanted and trade unions wanted to end this the only complain was that they had to close their companies. This IS NOT AN ARGUEMENT. If you can't run a business and pay minimum wage you better close your company. Same with taxes. At some point in time if you can't pay taxes you better close your company.

[Hiram]

Well I could accept that taxes in the first 5 years are seen as loan

I don't think we're going to agree on this to be honest. My view is; in each financial year if you make no profit you don't pay tax.  Personally, you'd scare off business and it would go somewhere else if you tax in the first year. That is why France has had tepid growth for years.

A lot of entrepreneurs have to put a lot of their own money in to starting a business - and businesses take time to mature.  So in your world; if the business fails - not only does the owner lose his own cash but he gets stung for taxes.  No thanks.

I'm going to have to look up starting a company in Deutschland and see what actually happens.  But Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut.  But I'd be surprised to see it work the way you say.

Just found this about German taxes - and it has left me speechless. Wow, pay *in advance* you're shitting me!

"Everyone working or running their own business pays income tax, quarterly in advance, with a tax assessment at the end of the calendar year. Profits are taxed at the personal tax rate, with a tax-free personal allowance for a single person at EUR 8,130. If you’re married, your income is taken together and the rate is EUR 16,620. The base tax rate is 14 percent rising to 42 percent for a taxable income of EUR 52,882.

[TheZookie007]

This person said it better than I.

[TheZookie007]

My impression regarding the AHCA is that Trump is primarily concerned with burning down the legacy of Barack Obama. If anyone doubts his racism: Trump's father was a member of the Ku Klux Klan, and even after the (semi) success of the Civil Rights Movement, Trump's realty company wouldn't rent to non-whites until the New York City Commission on Human Rights and the U.S. Justice Department sued to force them to. He couldn't stand the thought of a black president while Obama was in office (even after his bullshit claims about Obama's birth certificate became a joke), and now that Trump is president, he's going to try to undo everything Obama accomplished.

I take it even further back: the Republicans and president Steve Bannon are using the current occupant of the Oval Office as a blunt instrument to not just undo everything President Barack Obama accomplished, but to undo everything that both President Roosevelts accomplished, including Theodore's National Park Service and strong antitrust intiatives, and Franklin Delano's entire "social safety net".