[Governor]

Despite the breast obsession there are some pretty good minds floating around here so I thought I would throw this out for public consumption.  Should we continue to bomb them during "Ramadan" ?

I say yes we should.  And here is why. If we stipulate to respect religious holidays pretty soon some terrorist will figure that out and create a sect that has 12 straight months of religious holidays just to keep us from bombing them.  I understand that bombing could create problems among the arab community, but these people have no respect for life including their own.  I see no reason why we should suspend a military campaign. During any cessation of activity instead of praying they will be repairing and re-arming. We would have to duplicate efforts, when the military campaign started again. I just cant fathom giving an enemy that sort of respect after they have done what they have done. Your thoughts?

[BillN]

Let me gaze into my crystal ball and give you a little insight into what the enemy will be doing during Ramadan.

Pray.

Make bombs.

Pray.

Mail out some anthrax.

Pray.

Beat women.

Pray.

Party hardy in Bin lauden's bunker.

Pray.

Get the idea?  

[Janus]

I doubt they'd hold back on christmas. Besides it's a crock. People in that part of the world have killed eachother during Ramadan.

J- Hey, you hit her pretty hard there, Rick.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

well provided we KNOW that the bombing is having an effect ( i doubt it ) i say continue. I have a real problem with our strategy in the middle east and the war  being limited only to afganistan. the terrorist network exists region wide in various forms so frankly i doubt ousting the taliban or killing osama will do much good  at all. and i dont think bombing is the right solution to hurting terorists. If some remeber correctly the only reason they( the Taliban)  were supported a year ago was b/c they were the most stable govt in afganistan at the time. My fear is that by ousting the religious zealots in afganistan we instill a govt like saddam that while more secular is revoltingly despotic. ( rem we supported saddam in his war with iran simply to control militant islam from b/coming a power in the middle east. how ironic that he is now a potential enemy and iran is supposedly on our side) please keep in mind that the only reason that they ayatollah came to power in iran was b/c of the oppresive and anti religious policies of the shah who's govt we supported. is  it any wonder that we are seen as being anti-islamic by common people in the region.

i also think that the pubic is some how under the impression that saddam and osama somehow are working together and that conclusive proof could be found of this.  while SOMEwhat plusible i think this is doubtful b/c osama was trying to assasinate saddam just a year ago; it has been documented that he hates saddam, khadaffi and rulers like them ( secular despots) and he also has no real love for the saudi govt (who are more religious but embrace a certain degree of westernism)

in all to sum up, bomb only if it can actually be seen as effective in hurting the terror network. I think our policy should be like the israelis . attacking and or assainating those who are the trainers and recruiters for the terror networks . identifying and eliminating their funding and suppliers. we will not eliminate terrorists  but i think we can limit their effectiveness to carbombs and backpack crazies. we definitely need to reexamine our policy in the middle east in re to palestine and how we are seen by people in the region. only in that way will we achieve what we claim we want which is a peace ( or semblance of such ) through diplomatic negotiations.

[Rustproofmofo]

damn, faustianpact put it perfectly.  That sounded totally intelligent and made complete sense.  rock on.

[Davastav]

Such Patriots at BE. The answer is we cannot suspend our committment to fighting terrorism during any holidays. Holidays are meant for peace-loving nations and people and are to be used to reflect and commemorate and force us to self-renew. Are these terrorists living in the same world as any of us? The answer is clear. No. Yes we will probably offend the entire Arab community but they should be asking themselves also how can people who are making violence stop and pray - talk about hypocrisy. Us and them!  

[Janus]

Oh for the love of mike. This is a bullshit issue, and we all know it. As roadblock set up by someone who mentally masturbated while looking at a calendar. I doubt the Nazi stopped torturing Jews of any of their holidays. Or maybe the terrorists should have bothered  to delay the bombings on September 11th because it was their "brothers" the palestinian's holiday? I bet the whole PURPOSE of that was to make it look like palestine was responsible. (personal theory) Though they don't know it, a lot of middle eastern governments are willing to throw the palestinians into fire.

 War has no calendar. period. It doesn't matter who you think the good guys and bad guys are, there will always be people who will disobey and fire.

"Look mommy I got a boxload of white powder from Osama for Christmas."

"Oh that's lovely dear, tis the season to be giving!"

Yet there's the flipside on what Haq said. It might cause the extreme factions to use it as a catalyst to raise more anti-western sentiment.

"Look Mommy, US is dropping bombs on Ramadan."

"Hmmm, maybe Osama was right?"

So either we lose what ground we have, or save face. Anyone else happy they aren't in charge right now?

SO

Let the drinkers drink, the smokers smoke. Me, I gotta pop some advil.

J- Ice cream headache x10

[William]

Bomb away.
They didn't take our innocents into consideration.
They don't like us anyway, who cares if it makes a few more, or them madder?

In warfare it should be nothing held back, go all out or don't bother starting. Why, because you'll never win by holding back. No fight is ever won by not putting in a full effort or attention.

[NotElvis]

This is a hornet's nest of a question actually.

The whole idea behind not bombing during Ramadan is that the other Middle Eastern countries will be happier about it.

However, despite the fact that I think we've done a LOT of nasty things there and shouldn't be surprised by some of the hatred against the US, I *do* in fact think that this is holding the US to a seriously crippling double-standard.

Ok, let's see, in the past, Islamic people have fought each other during the holidays.

Well, they have sort of admitted that fighting for defense is permitted during Ramadan.

Granted.  But if two sides, both Islamic, are fighting, how can it be said that both were fighting only in defense?  Obviously ONE side had to be violating the rules there.

Of course, both could've been fighting defense while being on the offensive, if it's seen as a long-term action to protect oneself.  I suppose it could be argued that way.

Granted.  So are we . . we don't feel like having any more of our buildings knocked down or people killed.

In fact, I am willing to bet just about anything that if the US suspended military action in Afghanistan, that the month of Ramadan would NOT be used for prayer or whatever, but rather, building up the defenses like all hell.

The Ramadan issue is a sensitive one, but frankly, it's one of those "no-win PR scenarios"

It has also been hinted to the US that perhaps during Ramadan action should be less severe, or maybe just less "obvious".  Maybe do things on the side, or covertly.

But . . it's a PR issue we probably have to work around.  After all, we *are* being held to a separate standard . . we're the self-proclaimed "good guys" who play by the rules.

The Taliban of course will shamelessly use this to their advantage.  They're hypocrites.  But not only that, we've already branded them criminals, of *course* they're going to cheat.

Should we suspend action against Afghanistan during Ramadan?  Hell no!

Should we work on it to make sure anything we *do* is very subtle.  Hell yes!

Why?  So that nobody has any PR ammo against us, that's why.

It's a sucky little subset of the rules in this game.  My opinion, it's a bunch of crap.  But just like we have our "ivory tower" philosophers and armchair debaters, so does the Islamic world.

Oops . . almost forgot to sum up . . so, I guess, while I think it sucks, we probably shouldn't bomb.  But we should continue operations.

But I don't know if suspension of bombing is going to really hurt our campaign anyway.  How much is there really to bomb?  How many of Osama's cronies do we get with each bombing run?

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: NotElvis ]