[DruulEmpire]

I'm about as freethinking a Catholic as you'll find -- basically, if anyone in the hierarchy knew my inner mind for even half a minute, I'd be excommunicated just like that, whoosh -- but from time to time I like to keep track of the Papacy.  Evidently Big Ben -- that's Pope Benedict, not Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger -- is looking to retire come the end of this month.

This is mildly staggering, since it is far and away more typical for your average Pope to cling to the title to his dying breath.  A fellow named Gregory stepped aside from the Papacy to deal with a Schism, but the last true abdication was that of Celestine V over seven hundred years ago.

I find Celestine to be an interesting if slightly tragic figure.  He was made Pope by a college desperate to palm the job off on pretty much anyone.  He was in fact an ascetic, a hermit, who made the mistake of once making a blistering but rousing critique of his Church -- and that lone fluke was basically what recommended him in the eyes of that college.  But it simply wasn't for him, he wasn't suited to it, so he acknowledged that almost immediately and resigned.  He was not interested in pushing the boundaries of the Peter Principle -- or, in this case, the Saint Peter Principle.

V to supersalem below: dude, middle paragraph.  These posts have titles AND text.  But let's not gloss over the main point, that being we all agree this is seriously unusual.

[salem]

Actually that is incorrect. Pope Gregory XII resigned in 1415, which means a little under 600 years since a Pope resigned.

[pedonbio]

I agree that it is unusual, but he did give two weeks notice.

[rtpoe]

Of course, you know what this means....

Now's your chance to be Pope! It's the "Holy Spirit" who guides the College of Cardinals in their choice. Technically, that means *anyone* can be Pope! If some miracle happens, and all the ballots come up with your name on them, you get the job!

It looks like a pretty cushy deal. As far as I can tell, as long as you don't make waves, you'll be fine. And since making waves takes work... Pretty much all of the job is administrative, anyway. Do paperwork, write sermons, appoint people... You're basically the Prime Minister of the Catholic Church. So what would you do if you were Chosen?

One other question - what happens to Benedict after he steps down? There's no "Old Pope's Home" for him to go to. Does he go back to being Cardinal Ratzinger? I imagine he'll spend his remaining days in one of the Vatican's buildings or some other Church property, staying out of the limelight and sipping orange Fanta while people stop by to pay their respects. A pleasant enough way to go, anyway.

[Robin_K2]

So what would you do if you were Chosen?

Allow priests to get married. Pretty much let American nuns run everything over here -- or as much as they want. Bring in an outside accountant for an audit of all Papal properties and dollars. Sell the art to museums, sell all church property, instead meet in people's homes or community centers (like the first Christians) take the money and do real work with and for the poor, including birth control.

In my first Papal appearance I'd announce that God just phoned to say that life does not begin with conception, and not even for many months afterward, that a zygote is not a human being, and that from now on deeds are more important than dogma or last minute repentance.

I'd also make clear that Jesus was a teacher, and a pretty darn good one, but likely just a teacher, and that he's a little steamed that we think that belief is better than being nice to each other, that he did not "save us" by "dying for our sins," which anyway are still not forgiven, so let's get to work, people, and make "on earth as it is in heaven" a plan for immediate action, not just words.

Then I'd send formal apologies to Islam, the orthodox churches, all Jews, and everyone else we've hurt. I'd turn over all cleric molesters to authorities, excommunicate them and have my bishops stalk them forever.

I'd finish my first day by forwarding an e-mail from God, saying that he/she/it loves all LGBTs. And close by asking the U.S. to get the hell out of the middle east and find something other than oil for American foreign policy to obsess about.

Then, on my second day...

[TheZookie007]

The only three things you need to be qualified to be chosen Pope:

* be a man
* be unmarried
* be a Catholic

Of course, the last non-Cardinal chosen as Pope, was a thousand years ago...so your odds are not good

Is there a straight line between the airing of the HBO documentary on the priestly diddling scandal (which Benedict was in charge of investigating), and the announcement of his resignation, a mere week later? Who can say?

[pedonbio]

Is there a straight line between the airing of the HBO documentary on the priestly diddling scandal (which Benedict was in charge of investigating), and the announcement of his resignation, a mere week later? Who can say?

That was part of it. Over the weekend he got access to the BEA.

[TheZookie007]

St Stephan must have tipped him off.

[gOOber]

St Stephan must have tipped him off.

[gOOber]

"We might have an entire month with no Pope! It'll be a Catholic free-for-all! They'll be passing out Pez dispensers full of birth control pills, using the Lord’s name in vain, coveting thy neighbor’s wife, killing anybody you want. It’ll be like being a Presbyterian!” --Stephen Colbert

[pedonbio]

gOOb, are we closer than I know? I have some FB friends in MS...

[salem]

V to supersalem below: dude, middle paragraph.  These posts have titles AND text.  But let's not gloss over the main point, that being we all agree this is seriously unusual.

Fair point, but the title of your thread is pretty specific. The BBC website stated that it was almost 600 years since a Pope resigned and I always believe what the BBC says, except in the case of Sir Jimmy Saville. 

[DruulEmpire]

OKAY, I HAVE FUCKING HAD IT.

Gregory stepped aside because of a Schism.  There were conflicting lines of Popes at the time and Gregory reluctantly stepped aside so that Martin V could become the one Pope.  After that there was only one more antipope and then all the antipopes were cleared away.

The point I was making was that the whole SPIRIT of resignation was really much clearer in the earlier case of Celestine, and far more applicable to this current situation.  By the way, the story of Celestine is worth learning, especially when once considers how his successor Boniface treated him.

In and of itself I would not mind this so much -- but you very nicely, yes, resurrect a Meredith Salenger thread after more than ten years, and then I congratulate you saying "TEN YEAR NECROMANCY FOR THE WIN!" -- and your sole reaction is to immediately correct me yet again, basically saying, Oh, you clearly are not aware of the far more appropriate term "resurrection."  Do you ever actually read this Forum!?  We pretty regularly -- however inaccurately -- remark on each other's "necromancy" of a thread around here, it is very much BEA lingo.

You basically talk to no one, not any actual person whatsoever -- and that has worked magnificently for you in the past, because your comments, so far as I can see, have been almost solely about the beautiful women featured here.  So long as you stick to that topic, you do all right.

But now, twice, I alone receive this "gift" of your correction.  YOU ARE NOT EDUCATING ME.  You are telling me zero that I am not already aware of.  You are not edifying me.  You are not helping me.

If I am the only person here who you are ever going to address directly, and this is the only manner in which you are ever going to speak to me, then please -- never speak to me again.

Either that, or get over yourself -- and I can't help but notice that you started acting this way round about the time you traded in your avatar for the insignia of the house of Jor-El.  Maybe you could stand to switch it one more time, for something even a little humbler?

The root of "salem" means "peace."  You may want to think about earning some.  

[pedonbio]

Personally I really like Celestine V. I think the Pope should always be a kindly lunatic.

[salem]

OKAY, I HAVE FUCKING HAD IT.

Gregory stepped aside because of a Schism.  There were conflicting lines of Popes at the time and Gregory reluctantly stepped aside so that Martin V could become the one Pope.  After that there was only one more antipope and then all the antipopes were cleared away.

The point I was making was that the whole SPIRIT of resignation was really much clearer in the earlier case of Celestine, and far more applicable to this current situation.  By the way, the story of Celestine is worth learning, especially when once considers how his successor Boniface treated him.

In and of itself I would not mind this so much -- but you very nicely, yes, resurrect a Meredith Salenger thread after more than ten years, and then I congratulate you saying "TEN YEAR NECROMANCY FOR THE WIN!" -- and your sole reaction is to immediately correct me yet again, basically saying, Oh, you clearly are not aware of the far more appropriate term "resurrection."  Do you ever actually read this Forum!?  We pretty regularly -- however inaccurately -- remark on each other's "necromancy" of a thread around here, it is very much BEA lingo.

You basically talk to no one, not any actual person whatsoever -- and that has worked magnificently for you in the past, because your comments, so far as I can see, have been almost solely about the beautiful women featured here.  So long as you stick to that topic, you do all right.

But now, twice, I alone receive this "gift" of your correction.  YOU ARE NOT EDUCATING ME.  You are telling me zero that I am not already aware of.  You are not edifying me.  You are not helping me.

If I am the only person here who you are ever going to address directly, and this is the only manner in which you are ever going to speak to me, then please -- never speak to me again.

Either that, or get over yourself -- and I can't help but notice that you started acting this way round about the time you traded in your avatar for the insignia of the house of Jor-El.  Maybe you could stand to switch it one more time, for something even a little humbler?

The root of "salem" means "peace."  You may want to think about earning some.  

Well not to be pedantic, but it is the house of El, not house of Jor-El. Jor-El of course being the father of Superman or Kal-El. El being the 'family' name so to speak. Sorry, couldn't resist. 

Funny how 'Salem' means peace, since that was where the witch trials were.

And , dude, way to get all worked up over a little correction or two. I take your argument, but a resignation is still a resignation, whatever the reason. However, your reasoning is sound. I do find it odd that the BBC website stated that it was almost 600 years since the last resignation, but an American news site stated it was 700 years. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I still count Gregory XII as the last abdication as he is listed among the official Popes.

On researching this a bit, I did notice that on certain occasions, like after the resignation of Gregory XII, there have been some long istances where there has been no Pope at all. Cardinal deadlock, as it were.

Anyway, apologies if I got you upset, my wife would say that my correcting people thing is my worse trait. I actually thought your comment in the Meredith Salenger thread was you being sarcastic, so I do apologise for taking it the wrong way.