[Hiram]

Yes, I agree the Brits should definetly leave the EU.

Article 50  is being triggered on March 29 - so we should be gone in less than two years.

Personally I feel really optimistic.

[solvegas]

My opinion, the EU should have remained simply a free trade organization rather than trying to become a supra-national government. There really is no such thing as " European " . The countries in Europe have many distinct and different outlooks which simply cannot be ignored. If you want an argument, tell a Frenchman and a Englishman that they are the same and they will know you are a fool. Their histories and outlooks are so different in many respects. Think about Napoleon Bonaparte. He remains a hero in France with a huge mausoleum celebrating the approximate fifteen years of general war he brought upon the continent of Europe. To the British he simply was a warmongering dictator that brought ruin. We tend to think of World War 1 ( 1914 - 1918 ) as the first global war but in reality historians look upon the Napoleonic Wars which engulfed Europe from 1803 - 1815 as a truly global war since not only Britain but Austria, Russia, Prussia ( Germany ), Italy ( Papal states ), Spain and more were involved and since Britain, France, Spain had global empires at the time, they fought a global war. It even involved the fledgling United States since Britain and France both raided American shipping and the United States had its second war against Britain, what we call The War of 1812, due mainly to the depredations of the Royal Navy against American shipping.
So, in conclusion, the people of Europe should have stayed with the original impulse of the European Steel and Coal treaty of 1955 and left it at that rather than bureaucratic and undemocratic monster  the EU has become. Trying to mix Greeks and Germans together in a government is a recipe for disaster. The proof is present day news. My $0.02.

[Hiram]

My opinion, the EU should have remained simply a free trade organization rather than trying to become a supra-national government.

Trying to mix Greeks and Germans together in a government is a recipe for disaster. The proof is present day news.

I couldn't have said that better myself.

When we (UK) joined in 1973 it was just a free trade organisation. We got a referendum choice; to join or not at the time. 

But never since have we been asked about more integration - treaty after treaty was signed and there was never a national vote on the terms. Free movement of labor was a disaster for the less well educated, thousands of well educated young good looking Eastern Europeans came into the UK for work - great for the company owner, not so good for your average Joe who couldn't compete.

Then there is the regulation that comes out of Brussels;  jeez, it is often completely nuts. I used to work in the transport industry, the EU regulations for truck drivers are painful, and mostly necessary.  The latest whiz was the Drivers CPC. So a driver who may have been driving for many years has to do 35 hours of classroom safety training - and pay for it himself. A lot of driver have packed it in since the CPC came in, and I don't blame them.  This all from the EU.

Crazy.

[andrat2000]

My opinion, the EU should have remained simply a free trade organization rather than trying to become a supra-national government.

Trying to mix Greeks and Germans together in a government is a recipe for disaster. The proof is present day news.

I couldn't have said that better myself.

When we (UK) joined in 1973 it was just a free trade organisation. We got a referendum choice; to join or not at the time. 

But never since have we been asked about more integration - treaty after treaty was signed and there was never a national vote on the terms. Free movement of labor was a disaster for the less well educated, thousands of well educated young good looking Eastern Europeans came into the UK for work - great for the company owner, not so good for your average Joe who couldn't compete.

Then there is the regulation that comes out of Brussels;  jeez, it is often completely nuts. I used to work in the transport industry, the EU regulations for truck drivers are painful, and mostly necessary.  The latest whiz was the Drivers CPC. So a driver who may have been driving for many years has to do 35 hours of classroom safety training - and pay for it himself. A lot of driver have packed it in since the CPC came in, and I don't blame them.  This all from the EU.

Crazy.

The biggest mistake was that we didn't listen to France when they didn't want the British in the EU (or how it was called back then). They never wanted to contribute fully financially since Thatcher and then they always wanted something in extra blocking any development. Without the British the EU could have been much further as they are now. Especially by pulling in the Eastern European countries we added more **86** countries. This was a big mistake.

The EU will do much better without British and Eastern European countries blocking development all the time.

I support a stronger European parliament and a european government, stronger European politics and much less national isolation and nationalism and playing the mortally offended all the time. Only a United Europe speaking with one "tongue" will have a chance to be successful.

I believe in a strong Europe, a strong European Union - time will proof this is the right thing todo.

Edit: ha ha funny. The forum posting scripts replaced "un.. wil...ing" with *86*

[Hiram]

This thread is starting to go off topic now - so this will be my last post on Brexit. We need a new thread.

The EU will do much better without British and Eastern European countries blocking development all the time.

Why all the bitterness - just be happy we've finally gone. Anyway, you're sounding like Trump with the 'its their fault' rhetoric.

I support a stronger European parliament and a european government, stronger European politics and much less national isolation and nationalism and playing the mortally offended all the time. Only a United Europe speaking with one "tongue" will have a chance to be successful.

Good luck with that - I think that is so unlikely to happen - but I wish you well with it.

I believe in a strong Europe, a strong European Union

I think it was the six EU presidents that got to me - yes, there are six EU presidents. 

[salem]

There are also significant differences between the UK and Europe, currency, what side of the road we drive on, plug type for electrical sockets etc. 

Of course here in Scotland our rather inept Government is always trying to make out how much more we have in common with Europe than the rest of the UK, which is nonsense of course. It is just their way of trying to highlight differences rather than similarities in order to push through another referendum that the majority of Scottish people do not want anyway.

so, my question to you Salem is, do the majority of Scots believe that separation from England would benefit them or is this some romantic idea of nationalism ? I personally believe Scotland would be greatly hurt but people are not always rational.

Well, personally I think that more Scots want to stay in the UK than leave it. The referendum was supposed to be a 'once in a generation' vote, but the SNP in trying to force through another one so soon are showing their true colours, that they simply cannot be trusted. The whole point of the UK referendum to remain/leave the EU was that it was a UK vote, not a vote by separate parts of the UK so by saying that 'Scotland voted to stay in' is a moot point as far as I am concerned. We voted as a union and as a union we should adhere to the results of the democratic vote. Had 600,000 or so more Scots voted to stay in the rather thasn vote leave, we would still be in the EU and as a consequence this would have meant that Scotland woulkd have been responsible for keeping the English IN the EU, so one side or other was always going to be unhappy with the outcome.

What is funny to me is that First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon is bending over backwards to 'listen to the voice of Scotland' with regards to how they voted in the EU referendum, while at the same time has ignored the wishes of the Scottish people with regards to the vote of the referendum to stay or leave the UK. She and the SNP have been looking for a way to engineer a second referendum ever since the first one was lost. Using Brexit as a reason is really just cynical political posturing on behalf of the SNP.

The problem with the SNP is that they do not govern Scotland for the benefit of its citizens but instead are trying to turn the Scottish people towards their way of thinking. Which is not how a government should operate. The government should serve the people and do what is best for them, not try to shape them into how they think people should be. Their relentless crusade for independence has done nothing but cause division and resentment in Scotland, which is now truly a divided nation.

The SNP doesn't really do anything but engage in grudge and grievance politics designed to cause division. Anything to further their cause and goals for an independent Scotland.

Anyway, rant over, lets ger back to chatting about the differences between the US and Europe!

[solvegas]

Anyway, rant over, lets ger back to chatting about the differences between the US and Europe!

On a lighter note, some of our British / European guests frequently mention several things that either annoy them or they love here in Sin City :
1.- The bars/pubs never close !  Especially young lads love this. 
2.- Food portions are gigantic ! 
3.- They give free water and soda refills ! 
4.- Everything is so far !    They look at a map and things don't look so far and when you tell them that the Grand Canyon is 240 miles away ( 400 Km ), they freak out. 
5.- Walmart is so fucking big, they sell everything and it's open 24/7/365 ! 
6.- Tipping sucks and we really don't understand it ! 
7.- The price you see on the price tag is not what you actually pay !  This is due to sales taxes. Since there are 50 States, there are 50 different sales tax rates. Confusing. 

There are more but these are a good start. 

[Hiram]

On a lighter note, some of our British / European guests frequently mention several things that either annoy them or they love here in Sin City :
1.- The bars/pubs never close !  Especially young lads love this. 
2.- Food portions are gigantic ! 
3.- They give free water and soda refills ! 
4.- Everything is so far !    They look at a map and things don't look so far and when you tell them that the Grand Canyon is 240 miles away ( 400 Km ), they freak out. 
5.- Walmart is so fucking big, they sell everything and it's open 24/7/365 ! 
6.- Tipping sucks and we really don't understand it ! 
7.- The price you see on the price tag is not what you actually pay !  This is due to sales taxes. Since there are 50 States, there are 50 different sales tax rates. Confusing. 

There are more but these are a good start. 

None of those really annoyed me - but some did surprise me.

I've driven from Vegas to the Grand Canyon, it is a long way - even the road from the highway is pretty long. I was just talking abut that to me girlfriend and how remote the high desert is.

Distances are vast after you come from a small country like the UK. I drove the whole of New Mexico in a day once, almost the length of England.

The issue with sales tax being different in different states can be confusing - as are time zones when you are travelling.

Yep, as a Brit, I never understood tipping. I never got it right.

I remember going into a Walmart* in Texas and seeing bullets on the shelf, not even behind any glass.  I wasn't so surprised about 24/7 - shops here are open all night.

I like the idea of free topup of coffee in diners.

[Hiram]

Well, personally I think that more Scots want to stay in the UK than leave it.

I still think the currency that an independent Scotland will/could use is the deal breaker for me.

Can you imaging if Scotland have to take the Euro (as I suspect) and the Pound stays weak. That isn't going to be good for Scotland. England is by far a bigger market than the EU for Scotland.

[TheZookie007]

There are more European women with bigger breasts willing to go topless for our prurient pleasure than in the US. Apparently.