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ScrewAttackSamus

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2017, 11:41:50 PM »
Yeah, not gonna lie, this has clearly made a bunch of people just not bother with the Addventure as there were less than ten new entries yesterday. There will probably be a bump once the server move is complete, but I can't see droves of people coming back to it. I get wanting to make registration necessary to perhaps cut down on spamming, but the Addventure has never really had that problem and the community has always been very good. The simplicity was also nice and any additions tended to be straightforward so it kept everything nice and clean. It sucks on a personal level for me as well considering one of my most consistent co-authors put some new entries up and I'm not sure if they'll follow up. This is really not helping in any way

Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2017, 12:38:25 AM »
Yep, tried to travel to an oft-used saved url to my favorite author on here, got greeted by a fuckhuge titty banner telling me to create an account (and an account creation page that defaults to the paid option that almost made me not even SEE the "free account" selection) and all I could think was "welp, it was fun while it lasted."

I could link to a bajillion studies showing that the moment it takes a modicum of effort to reach material people want to see (be it paying even a single cent to use wifi on flights, or, say, requiring an account to be created in the span of 30 seconds to view episodic porno writing) the userbase drops off a goddamn cliff, but that takes effort. Which, believe it or not, few people are willing to put in for a reward that can be found in a similar state on a great many other places on the web. IF YOU CATCH MY MEANING.

Suffice it to say if you don't roll this back, content creators (and ESPECIALLY content consumers) are going to dry up like a neglected vagina. Ain't nobody wanna touch that. I was barely willing to put in the effort as is, and even then really only to immediately check to see if there was a forum section and if there was a place I could bitch with the other people I knew would be doing the same. I know for a fact I never even would have started reading this thing if this was the state I found the site in.


Like, if you HAVE to have a splash screen, make it a "This is an 18+ site. Click here to proceed. Also, be aware of our SPECIAL PREMIUM ACCOUNTS YOU CAN BUY NOW FOR A LOW LOW PRICE." Requiring an account to VIEW content is downright asinine. If you need to push other (monetize-able) aspects of the site, do it without putting the entire damn site down, aye?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 12:46:09 AM by Gweh »

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GMJ

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2017, 02:26:21 AM »
I just made a free Breast Expansion Archive account. I had to mull the decision over for a few days before I took the plunge, though.

See, signing up for an online service is a risk: Every bit of personal information you give away could come back to bite you (most likely in the form of spam). And porn-focused sites... Well, they don't exactly have a sterling reputation. The Breast Expansion Archive's "Privacy Policy" page does says that the BEA isn't partnered with any ad serving companies... but it doesn't guarantee things will stay that way, so I was a bit worried.

Still, I figured that the quantity and quality of stories in the Addventure is definitely worth the risks inherent in signing up for a new online service.

The only reason I was able to make that judgement call, though, is that I've been visiting and reading the Addventure for over a decade now. I've learned what to expect; I know how good it is, how much content there is in the archives, and how easy it is to add new episodes of my own. I knew exactly what I was signing up for.

But for someone unfamiliar with the Addventure, think about what their first-time user experience looks like:
1. They find a link to an Addventure episode somewhere on the internet. On a forum, perhaps. The text surrounding the link promises an amusing story relevant to whatever was being discussed in the thread.
2. They take a leap of faith, and click on the link.
3. They immediately find themselves on the sign-up page for a porn site. This page makes no reference to the "Addventure episode" they wanted to see. From there, there's a few different ways they could react.
4A. They (incorrectly but understandably) assume that the page they're on is not related to the story they were promised, and that the forum post that sent them there was either trolling or spam. They hit the back button, report the forum post, and ignore similar-looking links in future.
4B. They (correctly) assume that the page they need to go to is hidden behind a membership wall. However, since the sign-up page doesn't contain even a sample of what they came to see, they have no reason to think it'll be interesting enough to be worth signing up to porn site. They hit the back button.
4C. They (correctly) assume that the page they need to go to is hidden behind a membership wall and are curious enough to sign up for a free account. However, signing up takes them through a number of different screens; Once they've finished, there's no easy way for them to navigate back to the content they wanted to find.

None of those outcomes are particularly good. Even 4C, which gives the BE Archive a new user, gives that user a bad first-time user experience; The other two actively discourage people who aren't already BE Archive members from reading or contributing episodes.

I can understand why making the Addventure require a log-in might seem like a good idea. After all, the new site's stated philosophy is to break down the distinction between content creators and consumers, and the Addventure is that incarnate. Besides, requiring Addventure users to sign up for a BE Archive account will cause a huge upsurge in the number of new BE Archive accounts being created as existing Addventure users sign up.

That's a short-term benefit, however. In the long term, fewer new users will start reading the Addventure, and that means fewer people will become Addventure authors. This means that the number of authors and readers will decline over time - and as others have already said, discouraging new people from becoming users is a big risk for a service that depends on crowdsourcing for new content.

There's also a risk of losing your existing users, including the authors who make the Addventure worth visiting. I'm still here, obviously, but there are a lot of Addventure authors out there. As others in this thread have already mentioned, those who click on their bookmarks and see the new sign-up page won't necessarily realise that it means the Addventure is now members-only: Some may assume that it's down temporarily as a result of your site upgrades, or that it's gone forever, or that it now requires a paid membership. Of those who do realise that the Addventure is still available, some of them may decide that they don't want to sign up - and that means that you're losing authors who would otherwise help attract people to your site.

tl;dr: Putting the Addventure behind a membership wall is causing problems.

I have some unsolicited suggestions that I (as an unskilled commenter with no financial stake in your company) imagine might help mitigate these problems:

1. Make it possible to read the Addventure without having to sign in. Some of it, at least. Perhaps make episodes readable to anyone, but hide their options, or something. Unless you actually demonstrate to potential members what the Addventure is prior to their signing up, there's no way for it to act as an incentive for them to join.

2. If you definitely want to keep the Addventure behind a membership wall, and don't want to lose the existing Addventure readers and authors, put a line on your sign-up page that says "Sign up for access to the Unending BE Addventure, our image galleries, and other content." I know it's in the FAQ, but as other posters have mentioned, people might assume the site's just down and not get as far as reading the FAQ page.

3. If you want the Addventure to funnel its users to your paid content, put a link to the Breast Expansion Archive into each BE Addventure episode. Even a simple text link under "Go back" would do a lot to drive traffic. (Currently it contains very few links to the Breast Expansion Archive, and hardly ever mentions the BEA by name. It was previously possible to use the Addventure without realising the BE Archive existed, so I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't driving many people to sign up.)

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saibott

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2017, 03:45:56 AM »
The Addventure must remain free, which you promise it will, however like many have said, if you can't at the very least read it unlogged it will fail and it will be spectacularly rapid, turning into bast-enterprises Anime Addventure with perhaps only a single contributor. That will eventually cause the business decision to kill the failed system freeing server resources it is using. Like many have said put up a "this is a 18+ site" splash if there are specific concerns making the "must be logged in" decision. I have issues with needing to login every time my browser is loaded, it is causing supreme annoyance, when I just want to check the recent0 page which boots me to the pay portal which then dumps me to the main site, not the page where I came from.

I know that I found the BEA about 2-3 years after it was created, and have wanted to have a paid membership to browse the content, however just never had enough income to be able until just recently and when I just about made the decision to do it this new site shows up. I only found the BEA because I was on the Addventure and wondered what happened if i removed everything after ".com" this new site is far too restricting in handling the free user and their permissions if that is just a hiccup or not I have no idea but I do know that I will not be paying for a membership now or in the future as the new site is far too unwieldy to navigate. A similarly related side note is that I have been thinking of buying some BOTcomics, however with the blatantly hostile stance that you're taking over something that has been around and survive well for nearly 20 years turned me completely off from supporting your company, I will go to the individual authors and artists directly if possible to support them.

There are vastly superior ways of handling things, as have been pointed out. perhaps in the future you prove yourselves to be an honest and trustworthy company I may decide to pay for some content, but as it stands right now, never. There may be a few others who share my opinion, if not circumstances, that may not have even bothered with a free account, I don't know, it's possible, which is all that truly matters in the business world. Success=Good product, good service, and good customer support. You may have these, and seem to act like you do, and yet conduct business with bad service and customer support practices.

This is not intended as a threat, it is purely an explanation that you have in fact succeeded in doing the opposite if the goal was to attract paying customers. I know that my single instance probably means nothing to you, however like I have stated above I am probably not the only one who feels this way.

Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2017, 04:51:52 AM »
Oh hey yeah let's make you have to deal with an embarrassing and poorly drawn picture with a transparent money making ploy (Paid being the default) in order to even view the site.

Oh yes, great idea. Nice way to kill this site.

I don't even like breast expansion but I used the addventure because good stories were on it. If all I got was that awful login page, well, I never would have even looked at it.

If you want more members than viewing it should be public, how else are people going to even want to make an account if they can't see anything?

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Malhavoc

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2017, 09:27:13 AM »
Dayum. I ask about search options and 20 seconds later a powder keg goes off. Anyway, I definitely can see where both sides of this issue are coming from.

For the admins and such, being able to know who is posting what is a strong incentive to require logins, simply because some rather questionable episodes have been put onto the Addventure (and usually scrubbed not long after) in the past. As admin who would likely catch a lot of crap if anything like 'youngling fetishes' were found and reported on, I'd personally want to be able to drop that hammer where it needs to go.
That's just one example of an argument for the admins and I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons.

On the other hand my many fellows here have voiced their concerns and legitimate worries. I'd hate to see the Unending BE Addventure suffer and perhaps even expire due to a login wall. It has been one of the best writing sites around. Writing.com, CYOC, and so on just don't have the same special something that the UBEA has.

I remain hopeful that the administrators and the users can come to a reasonable compromise (at the very least the admins should provide their reasons for the changes, accept any thoughtful criticism, and seriously consider any plausible solutions offered).

All that being said, is there any update on the Google search function?

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Djoser

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2017, 09:47:08 AM »
This will take some time for me to get used to. Time that sadly I don't have as I don't come here as often as I did.

On the other hand I feel the entire site needed a change in looks.

Although I have to join the choir and say that I find some details, namely the sudden pop up to the subscription to the pay site, quite annoying. I sincerely hope this will be fixed.

Besides that I have no complaints all is just strange to me :P
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 10:00:45 AM by Djoser »
Welcome to the internet, where men are men, women are men, and childr3n are the FBI

If it hurts, it means that you're still living

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Benji Dude

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2017, 09:48:48 AM »
1. Login requiement won't be removed. You just need to create a username and subscribe to a free account.

That is an incredibly asinine, insulting and condescending response.  What are the reasons for this choice?  It seems at the moment all it's doing is pissing people off.  As a contributing writer to the Addventure I'm finding myself holding off on adding any content until all this is sorted.  I don't contribute to the Addventure to line the pockets of whoever owns the site, I contribute to give something back to the community, for free.  Yes there are free accounts available (I have one myself, have done for years) but this decision just present hurdles for any user (new or old) and gives the wrong impression as GBJ has already mentioned.  I still have to click on my bookmark twice to get to where I want to go because every time I log in I get an error page, any new users/visitors of the site aren't going to do that, I appreciate that there are bugs when updating a site especially when it's a quantum leap like this one but there are design choices at play that are just plain wrong.  I'd love to hear your reasons for this choice.

As a usable compromise why not just make it a requirement for content creators and commentators to make an account?  That way you can better control the undesirable content that sometimes get posted while leaving those who just want to read and lurk free to do so.

3. We could implement HTTPS in the future. For now, if you want to join as a subscriber the payment gateway has a https page.

Why, having gone to all the expense and effort of updating the website have you not thought to future proof yourselves by implementing it now?  You know how it works and how to implement it seeing as you've got it for the subscriber payment gateway.  Seems like you're just shooting yourself in the foot, again.

It all seems like a very crude way of trying to get people to purchase your comics and novels.  There's a reason why I don't buy them, I simply don't have time to sit down and read an entire novel or comic book these days I'm sure I'm not the only one.  If your plan is to kill off the addventure then you're off to a flying start but I can't see it garnering the results you (or your shareholders) are seeking.

Such a shame that this is how the Bearchive ends.



As an aside I'm disheartened to see my older morphing content hidden behind a pay-to-see wall despite having most of it available for free, my email address hasn't changed ever (20-odd years strong!) and there has been no attempt at contacting me requesting any of it to be made pay-only.  As customer service goes that seems pretty piss poor.

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Adama

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2017, 11:25:27 AM »
All that being said, is there any update on the Google search function?

No update on making Google Search work, but I'm considering options for re-instituting a search function on the Addventure itself.

Any suggestions?
Adama, Addventure mega-geek

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Adama

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2017, 11:42:42 AM »
Passing on an unedited message from ffq, who didn't want to register:

Quote
Please pass on to BotComics for me that his decision to lock the Addventure behind a registration requirement has done a great job of killing the Addventure, and I hope he's happy about pissing people off from ever wanting to have anything to do with the rest of what he's shoveling. Which must be shit if he's so desperate to force it on people that he'd kill the Addventure for the chance of a few extra sign-ups.
Adama, Addventure mega-geek

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lurker

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2017, 12:38:58 PM »
No update on making Google Search work, but I'm considering options for re-instituting a search function on the Addventure itself.
Any suggestions?

https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2008/10/first-click-free-for-web-search.html
https://support.google.com/news/publisher/answer/40543



A similarly related side note is that I have been thinking of buying some BOTcomics, however with the blatantly hostile stance that you're taking over something that has been around and survive well for nearly 20 years turned me completely off from supporting your company, I will go to the individual authors and artists directly if possible to support them.

There are vastly superior ways of handling things, as have been pointed out. perhaps in the future you prove yourselves to be an honest and trustworthy company I may decide to pay for some content, but as it stands right now, never. There may be a few others who share my opinion, if not circumstances, that may not have even bothered with a free account, I don't know, it's possible, which is all that truly matters in the business world. Success=Good product, good service, and good customer support. You may have these, and seem to act like you do, and yet conduct business with bad service and customer support practices.

You are barking up the wrong tree.

The right venues to air your concerns are:
https://botcomics.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
https://botcomics.com/us/contact-us/
https://botcomics.com/us/blog-2/ (comment on their blog)



What are the reasons for this choice?

BotComics is a for-profit corporation.  Unrestricted access to the UBEA does not directly generate income.  I believe that is all there is to it.

I don't contribute to the Addventure to line the pockets of whoever owns the site

Apparently the site owners see it differently.

As an aside I'm disheartened to see my older morphing content hidden behind a pay-to-see wall despite having most of it available for free, my email address hasn't changed ever (20-odd years strong!) and there has been no attempt at contacting me requesting any of it to be made pay-only.

1. Check if the agreement you entered into by posting your content on their site allows them to do that.  If not, then they are violating your copyright.
2. Check if you can pull down your content.
3. At the least, you can always replace the link to BEA in your signature to one pointing to your freely available content.

As an aside, I do not understand why content creators will post their work on a site that requires a paid subscription to view it, without getting a share of the profits.

Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2017, 02:04:21 PM »
I'm also an old on-again-off-again contributor to the adventure. Not impressed by the change. I can understand the owners wanting to have a tighter control, but the register function is badly working. In fact, I needed to three attempts on three separate Email addresses until I finally managed. And yes, I did check all the spam folder. After my first failed attempt I figured to just delete my bookmarks and forget about BEadventure, but this Forum thread made me reconsider.

So not only are you scaring away people who don't want to register on a porn site - what a surprise there - you also make it difficult for those who would do so.

Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2017, 02:59:35 PM »
Hi, I've been reading fanfic in the addventure for about 6 months, and the only reason I even made an account to come and complain was because of that time I'd spent. This is quite simply a bad move on the part of the siteowners.

On a semirelated note, when content is submitted to the addventure, is it's copyright held by the poster or the site? Could people potentially migrate their stories to a new location? I've got a hermpire society story I'm following and I don't want to see it die because somebody at botcomics made a poor decision.

Additionally, who or what is botcomics? This is all news to me, I thought the addventure was just a group run thing, not... The front for an actual porn site.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 03:03:29 PM by TheEngineer »

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Adama

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Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2017, 03:01:06 PM »
Thanks, but the Google First Click Free stuff you pointed out would require the BEA to get involved in the changes.  I'm looking for something (like a library or tool) I can implement myself.
Adama, Addventure mega-geek

Re: New BEArchive.com
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2017, 04:03:32 PM »
I'm guessing we're not going to hear much from Bot Comics since it's the weekend now, but I think it's important that we continue to leave feedback until then.