[Palomine]

Hullo!

I dug one of the old salvaged PCs out of the garage to set up as a workshop computer. It's a Dell Optiplex 330 w/an Intel Core2Duo 2.53GHz CPU, 4GB of RAM and a 160GB SATA drive... despite the badly scratched case (I got it from a recycling place) it's a nice little PC: a small footprint, quiet and more than quick enough for me. It's got what looks like a working install of Windows XP Professional on it (w/a COA sticker on the case, though I don't have the/any original install media for it) and rather than wipe the drive and install Linux, I'd rather partition/dual-boot and KEEP the WinXP that's on there for those times when having Windows might come in handy for something or other.

Of course, I don't have a password to log in to Windows, so I need to get around that: to either reset the Windows admin or user password, or to create new accounts (I did F2 and reset the computer admin and system passwords, but of course, that's separate from Windows and doesn't help). On boot, the first Windows splash screen prompts me to 'press Ctrl-Alt-Del to begin' with no other options... I presume this is a security thing given the PC probably was a public PC in a library (I think). After that, I see the regular Windows log in screen, which prompts me for a username, password and to choose whether to log on via/to a pre-named network (unavailable now of course) or to this PC itself. There are no other buttons/options that I might use to recover/reset a lost password at all, let alone to revert/reset to the computer passwords I was able to reset via F2.

Of course I tried using the admin and system passwords I made in BIOS setup anyway even though I knew they wouldn't work for the Windows log-on... as well as a few obvious passwords for the single pre-assigned username visible ('communitycenter') but no luck. I also tried both the 'this PC' and 'network' log-ons, hoping one or the other might eventually offer an option re: lost password (w/o luck of course). SO, here I am sort of stuck (short of wiping the drive) and since the majority of users here are Windows, I thought I might as well ask if anyone knows of a relatively simple way to recover/reset the WinXP password or create a new account or do something so I can keep/use the XP install on this PC.

TIA for any feedback!

[SamV]

Are you sure this is XP?

XP doesn't normally present a "Press Ctrl-Alt-Delete" to login panel.

And I don't suppose you made or have a password reset disk for other user accounts?

Well if you did reset the admin account password and you can login as the admin, then you can use the Windows Control Panel to remove the password from other user accounts. The downside is that user will lose access to his EFS-encrypted files, personal certificates, and any stored passwords to web or network resources.

[Palomine]

Sam V said:

Are you sure this is XP?

Yep, that's what it says on the splash screens: "Windows XP Professional."

XP doesn't normally present a "Press Ctrl-Alt-Delete" to login panel.

Yes, I know... as mentioned, I'm assuming this extra/initial 'ctrl-alt-del to begin' dialog is an extra step intended to improve security from one user to another on a shared/public PC... I think this one was in a library before.

And I don't suppose you made or have a password reset disk for other user accounts?

No, as mentioned, I don't have any original installation media for this machine (salvage PCs almost never come with any). Nor do I have a 'password reset disk' for WindowsXP but if you could shed some light on this, maybe I could make or download one?

Well if you did reset the admin account password and you can login as the admin, then you can use the Windows Control Panel to remove the password from other user accounts. The downside is that user will lose access to his EFS-encrypted files, personal certificates, and any stored passwords to web or network resources.

As I said, the admin and system password that I was able to reset were for the PC itself: the ones you can access when entering BIOS setup (F2) and NOT anything to do with the admin or user accounts within Windows itself... i.e.: when Windows asks me to login, me typing admin (user) and admin (pw) does not allow me to log in.

Again: I don't care about any of the data, encrypted files, certificates, etc... that may already be on the machine... I'm happy (and would prefer) to create new admin/user accounts once I'm able to do so, and start fresh with them. I could just wipe the disk and start over with Linux, but if it's possible for me to save/keep/use the XP that's already on there too, that would be helpful.

I'm starting to read this: http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Reset_a_Windows_XP_Password ...the only method I could try immediately, the "Logging On as an Administrator" did not work: I made repeated attempts but could not get the machine to boot into safe mode as described.

[BillPratt]

That's XP pro set to run in old-fashioned mode or as part of a domain.

Here's something from Mark Russinovich, currently of Microsoft. Not sure if this will do the job if you don't already know the password, but it's worth a try.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-ca/sysinternals/bb897543.aspx

If it's a no go, try some of these:
http://pogostick.net/~pnh/ntpasswd/

If I remember correctly, they use a Linux live CD/USB stick to rummage through the registry for the password and blast the crap out of it. If I don't remember correctly, I pointed you at the wrong site and apologize. Regardless, this should send you down the right path.

[SamV]

If this box was used in a library, it most likely was on a Windows NT/2000 network and logins were being handled by a Domain controller, which explains the "Press Ctrl-Alt-Delete" login panel.

An XP password reset disk was something a user created by means of the Control Panel User Account applet after logging in.
While I know such a disk works on stand-alone, or peer-to-peer networked XP machines, I don't know if it works on a machine set-up to access a Domain controller without the controller being present, even if you happened to have one. So the whole subject is moot.

If you only had an XP install CD and since you don't care what might be stored on the hard drive, I would have suggested to wipe the drive and re-install a new version of XP, set-up for stand-alone use. But lacking that, I'm not sure what to advise you at this point.

Perhaps what Bill has in his post might help then. 

----
Not sure if your aware but here's one other thing to consider. Microsoft's support for XP with service pack 3 will be ending in April 2014. I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not, but I thought I'd let you know.

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I suppose you might have already seen this MS KB article about logging in to XP when you forgot your password, but if not: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/321305

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I suppose if all else fails; from About.com - 7 Free Windows Password Recovery Tools.

[Palomine]

Thanks both of you for the info... I will look into all of it.

I actually do have a few original Windows install disks lying around (XP, Vista, etc...) that didn't come with this machine but are left over from previous ones. In my (finite Windows) experience I can't use these to reinstall Windows on any machine OTHER than the one they were first installed on due to the original CoA sticker number having been registered (if I install on a non-net-connected machine, I think Windows will only run for 30 days or something). Am I mistaken about that? Again: I don't care at all about any apps or data on this PC... I'd prefer to be able to re-install the OS from scratch... but Microsoft's protection mechanism makes that problematic for me since I don't have the original media this PC came with (or a recovery disk made from it).

Heck I even have an original Vista pack that was originally/only installed on a Mac (under Parallels) which recently stopped working (on the Mac... suddenly saying it was an unregistered copy of Vista) and when I try to re-activate/re-authorize it on that machine using the CoA# (where it was running fine until recently) it still won't take the info. That's a 100% kosher stand-alone copy of Vista Ultimate that Microsoft got paid for that's now useless due to their questionable anti-piracy mechanisms.

I gotta say... of course I understand MS's interest in not having their OS pirated, but this is a bit ridiculous: Windows becoming 'unauthorized' on a machine it's been legally running on for years, or not being able to re-install it on a PC that came from the factory with Windows installed if you don't have the exact install disk that came with the machine (or a recovery disk you made from it). I mean, Microsoft already got paid for the license of XP on the Optiplex in my garage... why should they care if I re-install the OS from different media... it's still just the one license on that PC, regardless of the install media. In this regard, I gotta give props to Apple... though the OS disks bundled with particular kinds of Macs will only allow you to reinstall the OS from that disk on the same kind of Mac, you can use the stand-alone boxed OSX on ANY kind of Mac (and more than once if necessary... i.e.: if your Mac dies and you replace it). Of course, Linux is best: free/unlimited re/installs of the OS on any device from any media forever... plus all the other stuff: free upgrades, free apps, no viruses, low system overhead so fast on old devices, blah, blah, blah...

I'll try to get this XP thing resolved today or tomorrow if possible because if I don't, I know I've got so much else to do (firewood to cut and stack, a fence to repair, other PCs to work on...) that if I don't take care of it promptly (do whatever's necessary to recover the password) I'll just wipe the whole thing and install Linux instead (rather than alongside XP) so I can cross it off my to-do list, which would be a shame because I'd like to have the XP option down the road.

Thanks again, and I remain open to any simple/specific lost-password info.

[doctorx33]

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/tipstricks/f/forgetxppass.htm
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/toolsofthetrade/tp/passrecovery.htm
http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Reset_a_Windows_XP_Password
http://lifehacker.com/137980/how-to-reset-your-windows-xp-password
http://www.wikihow.com/Retrieve-Passwords-in-Windows-XP

[SamV]

All Microsoft XP install CD's, of the same version (Home, Pro, etc. and either Full Install or Upgrade), are exactly the same.

And starting with Vista, which came on a DVD, this fact is even more so the case, as the Home Basic, Home Premium, etc. versions were all packed on the same disc. What got installed was determined by the COA key code.

So if you know exactly what version of XP (I'd guess PRO for this PC, since XP Home Edition lacks certain network functions) then the only thing you'd need is the Registration Key to re-install it.  And that might not be a problem as I think there are programs that can extract the KEY CODE from an installed version, even one you can't log in to.

Yes, I'm aware of that... I was talking about how it's not possible (in my limited experience) to use Win install media to install the OS on a different machine if it was already used to install (and register the CoA) previously on another PC, so any used Win disks I have around the house can't be used to re-install Win on the Optiplex. Since I don't have the original install media specific to this machine, there's no point in me extracting the key code from it.

If Optiplex is still a viable company, you might want to contact them, give them the PC Model and Serial Number and they might be able to set up with the right stuff, once you explain the situation that you picked their box up at a garage sale.  It's how I got an XP Pro install and setup CD for the refurbished Compaq PC I use, after I contacted HP Support about it.

Optiplex is the model of the Dell... I suppose I could try to get an XP install CD from them, but it'll probably cost more than the PC is actually worth. I didn't get a chance to mess with it at all today, but maybe tomorrow... I'm willing to put in some time/effort to save/use XP if I can, but there's a limit. Aside from the initial futzing with the BIOS setup passwords, the only other thing I've tried so far is the Wired/Wiki 'boot into safe mode' instructions and they didn't work, so that's one potential method off the list. I'll try a few others and if one of them doesn't work in a reasonable period of time, I'll just wipe it and start over with Linux, where these sorts of problems never come up. Of course, I'll post updates here.

I appreciate the help... as mentioned, the infrequency with which I use Windows makes me least-informed about it (vs. Linux and OSX). -Pal

[BillPratt]

Installation disks the same, yes. However most manufacturers don't provide the installation disk. They provide a recovery disk which is only good on an unmodified or slightly modified computer of the type they shipped.

Palomine, boot the system and start mashing the ctrl+f11 key to see if it boots into recovery mode. You may be able to restore from a hidden partition.

This is what sucks about the Internet. I've got a spindle full of XP disks and I can't just walk over to your place and loan you one.

Thanks Bill... I was doing the Ctrl+F8 for safe mode (which would supposedly let me then reset passwords) but it didn't work. I'll put off cutting firewood one more day and give your advice and the links/info posted earlier a try tomorrow. -Pal

[SwitcherX]

I asked a Windows admin I know and he said:

I'd try lophcrack or the Offline NT Password & Registry Editor
http://pogostick.net/~pnh/ntpasswd/bootdisk.html

They got a free partition editor to compact the windows partition, and create free space for the linux install.

Thanks switcher... IIRC, you can specify how much of the drive you want to leave for Windows and use the rest for Linux during the Linux install (at least w/Ubuntu you can)... then the machine gives you a simple menu to choose which OS to boot into on power-up. I'm hoping to futz with this today. -Pal

PS: it's Monday and I haven't gotten a chance to work on this just yet... but I WILL and again I thank everyone for the feedback. -Pal

[Lightfoot]

I never tried this, but it's a Windows rescue disk made with Linux, and one of the things it claims to do is be able to reset your password.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Rescue_Kit
http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.php?content=TRINITY_RESCUE_KIT____CPR_FOR_YOUR_COMPUTER&front_id=12&lang=en&locale=en

It looks like there are iso's to download-
http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.php?content=TRINITY_RESCUE_KIT_DOWNLOAD&front_id=12&lang=en&locale=en
and then you burn them into a DVD/CD.

Here's some instructions-
http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.php?content=3922.2_WINPASS_AND_REGEDIT&front_id=12&lang=en&locale=en
It looks like it's partly command line stuff, but not completely.

Pal says: Thanks LF! I'll look at those too. I've been busy w/other things lately but have thus far managed to wipe the PC and install Linux from scratch (which would lose the Windows install of course, but it would allow me to cross one thing off my to-do list ). I've got some work this week, but will try to get some closure on this soon (and report back here). -Pal

[Palomine]

Been busy, but still a work in progress. Lotta programs won't write back to disk (demo version) or are supposed to, but don't work at all. Still a couple left to try.

Edited Sat, 11Sept12: I probably should have tried this first, but Titmouse talked me through booting the machine from another system and them deleting/replacing a file on the C: drive and now I can log in as administrator. Now I have to get the machine online, clean it up, install new anti-virus, etc... all the usual stuff.

THANKS TITMOUSE!

[TheZookie007]

Having those steps all laid out would be nice. I'm curious to hear about which file needs to be deleted...

[titmouse]

IF the hard drive is Unencrypted (or you have the ability to decrypt said drive)


1. Pull the hard drive and Slave to known good working PC that can read the windows xp file system

OR

Boot from linux/other OS disk or thumb drive or what have you.

2. When Booting from known good machine/boot disk access C:\Windows\Repair OR C:\Winnt\Repair (One or the other will be  on the drive you are accessing. (SAM file will be about 24kb)

3 Copy the sam file from the C:\Windows\Repair

4 access C:\Windows (or C:\Winnt)\System32\Config

5. Rename the original SAM file  to .old or what ever you care to. And then PASTE the Repair version into the System32\config folder

Reboot the machine

The Password SHOULD be BLANK and the Account name SHOULD be Administrator.

IF you know EXACTLY what you are looking for should take 10 minutes.

Ive had about a 90 percent success rate with this trick (Most often when it fails the drive was fubar anyway and had a ton of bad clusters)

This trick also will sometimes work if the Security file goes tits up  as well. (I have found it to be less successful but it works often enough to be worth trying)



 

[TheZookie007]

Thank you!