[rtpoe]

I love this sort of stuff, and I can't wait to see what kind of things come out of this intelligent crowd.

For several years, American Heritage Monthly has been doing an annual "Overrated - Underrated" issue where various authorities write short essays on who or what they think is overrated and underrated in a given category (e.g. Liz Smith on "Romance", Laura Hillenbrand on Racehorses, etc.) It's fun reading, and very enlightening.

Shall we play the game as well?

The basic rule is that you have to pick something for both the Overrated and Underrated sides of your topic. No saying "So-and-so is overrated as a whatever" unless you can come up with an example of an underrated "whatever". Of course, it helps if you explain your choices.

This is not an attempt at starting arguments or flame wars. We're giving our educated opinions in the hopes of stimulating intelligent discussion. And we're not making any declarations about Best and Worst here, either.

Here are the links to AHM's articles for examples, and hopefully for inspiration:

http://www.americanheritage.com/AMHER/2000/03/over-under.shtml

http://www.americanheritage.com/AMHER/2001/06/over-under.shtml

http://www.americanheritage.com/AMHER/2002/05/over-under.shtml

OK? I'll go first.

rtpoe

(and I hope I can get someone else to play, so I don't have to fill up my own post with my choices for Computer Game, Hobby, and other stuff...)  

[rtpoe]

Overrated: Emancipation Proclamation, 1863

Please put down your weapons and hear me out. The popular opinion of this document is that by issuing it, President Abraham Lincoln ended slavery. But a closer reading shows otherwise. What it actually did was end slavery in those areas not controlled by the Union. This is like Dubya issuing a declaration that the Communist Party is outlawed in Cuba. A nice sentiment, but when you can't enforce it, it's pretty much meaningless. At the time it was issued, Lincoln couldn't end slavery - there were four slaveholding states on the Union side. Any attempt at ending slavery could have sent them over to the Confederacy. Slavery wasn't ended until the ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment in 1865. What the Emancipation Proclamation really did was make slavery the one and only real cause for the Civil War. By issuing it, Lincoln seized the moral high ground, and made it impossible for England and France to side with the Confederacy. An important document, but not for the reasons most people believe.

Underrated: Northwest Ordinance, 1787

For a few short years, the United States was governed by the Articles of Confederation. This is the most important document to come out of that era. The Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War, gave the colonies the right to the land north and west of the Ohio River. A big question facing the new country was how would that land be settled, developed, and added to the nation? In just a few short pages, the Northwest Ordinance answered it, and set the precedent for future additions to the U.S. The land would be surveyed and divided into townships (thanks to this, counties in Midwestern states are usually rough squares). Part of the revenues in each township would be set aside for public education - the first federal funding of public schools. By setting up an orderly process for expansion and the admission of territories into the U.S., it laid the groundwork for all our subsequent growth.

rtpoe  

[solvegas]

I believe the 4 states were Kentucky , Maryland , Delaware and West Virginia . Am I right ?    

[Palomine]

Hi rtpoe,

I know that you're probably looking for a more intellectual analysis along the lines of what you posted, and while I'm certainly capable of coming up with something like that (technology or natural sciences would have been my topics of choice probably) I think that right now I have to say:

Over-rated: Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera (sp?), Jessica Simpson, and every boy-band since the Osmonds (including the Osmonds themselves of course).

Under-rated: punctured eardrums, i.e.: blessed silence.

[100ProofBE]

Awww, c'mon Palomine... that's shooting fish in a barrel.  

Hmmm.

How 'bout:

Overrated - Anime... more specifically the story-telling aspect. While people are often quick to dismiss american animation for being shallow, PC, and "kiddy", 98% of anime, while deliciously violent and/or alarmingly funny, has equally wretched story-telling. Endings are often disjointed or sometimes even flat-out stupid (the first person to mention Evangelion as a counter-argument gets stabbed in the eye) and the industry is just as ripe with nauseating repetition (seriously... how many maid shows and harem shows (a la Tenchi) have been released in the last few years?). Truly, if American animation is made for 7-11 year old boys, the majority of Japanese animation is made for 12-14 year old boys. It's not a significant improvement. (Please note that I'm actually a BIG anime fan... just tired of people who think it's the second coming of Christ)

(Vastly) Underrated - animated shorts. Anyone remember Tom + Jerry? Looney Tunes? Hanna Barbera? Tex Avery? Walter Lantz? Animated shorts in the 40s and 50s were a fine art... played before feature films to warm up the crowd, they were laugh-out-loud funny, often topical, occasionally edgy, and never a disappointment for children or adults (although I never did like Droopy). Now the animated short is a dying breed... movie houses give us 5 minutes of shit commercials and another 10 minutes of trailers for mediocre Hollywood films and television won't touch 'em with a ten foot pole.

Interested in seeing what's being offered on the animated short front these days?  Check it out. Mike Judge (of Beavis + Butthead, Office Space, and King of the Hill fame) and Don Hertzfeldt (Billy's Balloon, Rejected) have created a small film (not unlike Fantasia... just without the classical music) featuring a selection of amazing animated shorts. Anywho, I caught it last week, thought it was great, and figured I'd share with the group.

Proof out.  

[Goldeneye]

Overrated: James Bond.  Yeah, I know, you're angry, aren't you?  You're shocked and dismayed and some of you even downright incensed.  I'm a Bond fan.  I think he's a great example of the modern hero.  But, the Bond franchise is past its prime, and no one can argue that.  Who can name the last good Bond film?  Tomorrow Never Dies.  And GoldenEye before that...and the last good one before that preceded it by nearly a decade.  And yet they continue churning them out, tanking MGM's old faithful tentpole franchise, pushing each and every one as if it were the Second Coming of Bond when in fact we all know that a good Bond film is, until proven otherwise, a thing of the past.  The stories are flat, thin, and boring.  The villains are hardly memorable, and in the last two outings didn't even get enough screen time to give a lasting impression.  Bond, for the most part, has become a seriously tired formula.  Pierce Brosnan, God bless him, has tried his hardest to shake things up and give new twists, and they've made for interesting moments, sure, but the insulting quality of the scripts have bested him.  The film's nothing if you don't have a good (at least) story and a really great villain.  The franchise is a bore.

Underrated: Stone Barrington is where it's at.  For anyone who hasn't checked out the literary escapades of Stuart Woods' Stateside 007, you're missing out on the best thing since Bond.  Stone Barrington, ex-NYPD cop (retired after taking one in the knee) with law degree, now lives in a huge renovated NY house inherited from his aunt and does high-profile consulting work with a local law firm.  These cases often involve jetting to exotic locales, some being LA, Miami, Italy, London, etc., mingling with the upper-crust, staying in posh hotels, eating in fine restaurants, bagging at least two seriously hot babes, and helping crack pretty cool mysteries ranging from colorful thefts, murders, and switched identities to terrorism and political intrigue.  Stone is a man's man, but loaded with class, and style, he's quick on his feet, quick with his fists, and the ladies love him.  The series is long and shows no sign of stopping, and the books are thick but quick reads, full of colorful characters, cinematic writing (casting the books with **28** is always fun), and involving stories that hit the ground running, rarely pause, and give a satisfying finish.  And each book usually contains some sort of chance meeting with Arrington, the great love of Stone's life that just never seems to work out.  This series is what Bond SHOULD be, COULD be, and once was.  When I long for a good new Bond flick, I settle in with a Stone book, and I have yet to regret it.

[Blax12]

  Overrated: religions (all of them and any kind of them

Underrated: pornography

Blax12  

[BillN]

Overrated - John Holmes

Underrated - BillN

(No I'm not bitter  )

[PregNut]

Overrated-Holiday Inn Express Cinnamon Rolls.

Underrated-Tostitos Restaurant-Style Tortilla Chips 100% white corn with a hint of lime.  

[DruulEmpire]

I'll try to swing this back a little to rtpoe's original wishes.

Overrated: St. Paul.

True, St. Paul is vastly important to the evangelization of Christianity and establishing the early community -- yet a person can be so crucially important and STILL be overrated.  As i listem to many of the wouldbe Christian pundits of our day, I have trouble squaring their fiery tone with that of the jesus whom I have come to know.   Much of this can be blamed, and quite rightly, on centuries of intervening theology, but I notice that they just can't seem to get enough Paul.  Paul is the classic example of the person who is persuasive largely by sheer volume of production; he writes the most and evangelizes the hardest, and thereby begins to superimpose his own personal tone upon that set in the original Gospels.  Whether it was Paul's original intent or not, he's wound up becoming the validator of just about any intolerant prejudice that occurs to a clergyman's mind: "It says right here in this or that letter to the Miscellanians ... "  But there is a simple problem here -- mainly, it's Jesus Christ, not Paul Christ.  To listen to some preachers, Jesus is almost an inconvenient embarrassment compared to all the handy fury of Paul.  Should Paul be respected?  Absolutely.  Should he be rated at least as highly as Jesus?  No way.

Underrated: Joan of Arc.

True, everyone knows about her, and she was one weird kid -- but I'm still not sure how many people "get" how radical a figure she is.  She is in a way more American than any Founding Father, for Adams and Jefferson and Franklin were relatively upper-class men.  Joan was no one from nowhere, a bolt from the blue, and while we can attribute all her strength to God, we still have to wonder at the girl who wielded the strength.  I've come to appreciate Joan only by my growing interest in Witchblade fandom, and I feel apologetic for not knowing her better before.  Much has been made of her being a kind of feminist figure, though I don't think many feminists today really care for martyrdom -- the thing is, though, that Joan is an example for ANYONE, male or female, who is basically a nobody and a naif -- as most of us are, if we admit it -- to rise up and try to squeeze some justice out of a situation.  My interest in her just seems to keep on growing.  

[rtpoe]

I like what I'm reading. Mind if I do another?

 Hobby

 Overrated: Collecting

I can't think of a more pointless endeavor than collecting any item called a "collectible". Some company churned out thousands of copies of a piece of kitsch, and little old ladies or fanboys spend time, money, and space in their homes trying to get every single one, so they can have the honor of a COMPLETE SET!!! Which, once they have it, will never, ever, be touched for fear of damaging it and thereby reducing it's value. Yes, heaven forbid that the figurine that you paid hundreds of dollars for (actual value of materials: $1.98) should get scratched!

 Underrated: Amateur Astronomy

There are only so many big telescopes in the world, and they cannot look at everything. Fortunately, the price of equipment has come down so much in recent years that even an amateur can afford a setup that can get accurate, and valuable data. Even the simplest of telescopes can provide good data. Not for major research, of course, but for the things that the big scopes cannot afford to spend time on. And there are organizations for the dedicated amateur to share his or her data with: The American Association of Variable Star Observers. The International Occultation Timing Association. The Association of Lunar and Planetary Observers. Most new comets are discovered by amateurs, and they provide a great deal of orbital data on asteroids. If one of either of those turns out to be headed straight for Earth, chances are it will be an amateur astronomer who spots it first. And hopefully in enoutgh time to do something about it.

rtpoe  

[GALVATRON]

Over-rated: Nirvana
yeah they werea good band, but tremendously over-rated talent wise.  They were not half as revolutionary as people make them out to be today. If you go by what people say today,you'd think: everybody was a poffy haired glam metal poison wannabe but then one day in 1991 smells like teen spirit came on the radio, and at that exact instant in time every one said, "you know what, glam sucks". Then they went out and bought flanel shirts and became very depressed. But, in fact, glam was well on its way out before Nirvana came along. Heck NIN came out a good 3 years prior. The "hair bands" had all since removed thier make up. Guns and Roses, Skid Row were never really a "Hair bands" Faith No More, Jesus Jones, EMF and other Alternative (though crappy) sounds were on the radio long before Nirvana came along. I suspect most of their kudos stem from the fact that kurt died young.

Under-rated: TOOL
Well, Tool just rules. Just so many layered messages. and I like the way they seem to have no public image. It all about the art.

Over-rated: The Beatles
The Beatles have fantastic catchy pop songs, but people are just rate them too highly as if they are some sort of gods. Interestingly enough, I like beatles songs better when non- beatles sing them. But I encourage you to buy more Beatles Songs becaue it makes Michael Jackson richer.

Under-rated: Radiohead
Better than the Beatles. Spin magazine once tried to say this once in an article and all the Beatles fans gave them hell for it. So mostly i say this just to piss of people, but I really do like Radiohead better.

Over-rated: Homer
Homer is very funny, but after so many years some episodes are misses, especially lately.
 
Under-rated: Bender
More consistant in quality, but there are fewer episodes.

Over-rated: Madonna
Her music is not creative. Like a Virgin is a direct rip-off of Billie Jean. She just seems to leach off of watever is popular. She was kinda pretty, her dancing is mediocre, her acting is terrible. And whenever she opens her mouth she manges to say something that makes me want to disintergrate her. Her only talent is staying in the press. Someone please make her go away.

Under-rated: Lennox Lewis. Okay, so this doesn't match up well with my last over-rated thing but, i think that the Champ is vastly underated. If you had a rumble of all the heavywieght champs in HIStory, my bet is that Lennox comes out on top. Never Before has such a large, powerful man been so fluid and skilled in the ring. He's defeated everyone he's ever faced (emphatically avenging his 2 losses) I think, he's Better than Evander and Iron Mike, and Mike Moorer and Big George and Bowe and Larry Holmes and Fraizer  
and he even matches up well againt Ali. He's better than Liston and Walcott and Marciano and Patterson and Charles
and Tunney and even the mennasa mauler Jack Depmsey. (Ali can possibly out slick him, but he's the greatest).  

Over-rated The Wizard of Oz
I hate this movie

Under-rated The Wiz
this funktasic updated version of the Wizard of Oz is actually entertaining.

Over-rated Julia Robert
I dont get it

Under-rated Jennifer Love Hewitt
This I get.  

[Palomine]

In response to rtpoe:

If collecting is over-rated then most of us are surely wasting a hell of a lot of time: after all, how much more 'valuable' is a jpg beaver shot of Christy Canyon or Lisa Lipps than a Hummel figurine, Beanie Babie, Barbie Doll.... really? I don't even DO much of anything with the images I collect... it's just the hunting/sorting part of the process I enjoy. Why is this?

In response to the mighty purple robot:

JMHO your awesomeness: but it'd be hard to over-rate The Wizard of Oz in any technical or creative aspect. This fact though doesn't detract from the joy that is The Wiz of course.

Radiohead IS very good, but hardly under-rated, at least as far as the amt of press they receive seems to indicate. I'd also disagree re: the Beatles... not that ANYTHING ever lives up to it's hype, but their simple, clean pop tunes still consistently please decades after the fact. I doubt that will be the case with Britney, Christina, ad nauseum... Along these lines, I think Elvis would have been a better choice insofar as over-rated is concerned, particularly in light of the fact that most of his hits were written by others (unlike the Beatles, who wrote almost all of their own material).

Bender and Futurama WAS under-rated, but given the low average quality-wise of televised dreck, it'd be hard to argue that even a bad episode of The Simpsons is better than a good episode of just about any other sitcom currently airing.

To be under-rated, JLH would either have to not have enough PR/hype (obviously not the case) OR she'd have to have talents unknown/unappreciated by the masses (possible, but what? I haven't seen it yet). Like your purpleness, I very much enjoy looking at JLH, not simply because she's a skinny gal with a decent rack, but I personally find her sharply chiseled facial features very appealing. Maybe she has a degree in fluid dynamics that I don't know about, and therefore could do a good job at screw design to reduce cavitation on submarines... in that case, she WOULD be under-rated in that capacity. Julia Roberts is good to look at too, as is Madonna IMHO (I think she's much more desirable now than 15 years ago) ...neither is as gifted in their vocations as hype would have us believe, but isn't that ALWAYS the case with hype?

OK, if you are going to vaporize me for chiming in here, please wait until after 4am Pacific time, so that I'm more likely to be asleep when the end comes. Thanks.


 

[GizmoWidget]

Topic: Music.

Overrated: Top 40, pop music, Grunge... I think you get the idea.

Underrated:  World music, Ambient Groove.  Bands like Afro-Celt Sound System, Groove Armada, etc.  If any of you are familiar with Peter Gabriel's brilliant album "Passion; Music From The Last Temptation Of Christ", you have a pretty good idea of the direction I'm going here.

Sorry I'm not providing one of my usual long winded, point by point, tedious posts, (actually, maybe you're not sorry...) but It's late, I'm tired, and I'm looking forward to snuggling up next to my wife...  

[Raiden]

Another Music Over-rated/Under-rated

Over-Rated:  Musicians who only play the same three chords over and over again, every song they produce sounds the same, every song they produce sucks or sounds like noise, and they get tons of money and radio time.

Under-rated: Musicians who can actually play more than three cords, are good at what they do and get very little radio time (unless your listen to colledge radio). Musicians like this include: Derek Trucks, Jaco Pastorius, Frank Zappa, and Joe Satriani.