[Omega72]

For awhile now, I was trying to get a Girlfriend but I'm at the point of giving up. The girls I've tried to date either have a-hole boyfriends that they love or just palin-crazy.

Just recently, I tried to ask a girl out and got the response of "I'd rather go gay then go out with you". I don't know what to do at this point, I feel so miserable as of lately between other stuff going on with my life I just can't seem to get ahead enough to feel comfortable lately and that just put the nail in the coffin.

So, what can I do?

[DruulEmpire]

I appreciate your coining the term "Palin-crazy."

How old are you?  Because offhand I know no way of buffering the pain of this for the young.  I'm fifty now, but I can recall how my universe could wilt if a girl (pause) friend failed to smile at me as she passed by.  The problem being, if I even try to commiserate or advise, some kind of generation gap may get in the way of my trying to help.  So if you're young, you may simply need to wait for a younger Forum member.  All that I can say is that when you're young, it can seem to some of us that love is easy and sex is impossible, but as you get older it feels more like the reverse -- not that sex is that much easier, but love proves itself to be highly elusive.

Take honest stock of yourself.  Are you a very narrowly defined, highly idiosyncratic sort of person, or do you consider yourself more a regular guy, perhaps well-nigh generic?  If you consider yourself pretty regular, your prospects are good; if you're a very specific, particular person, this is going to take work.  I'm an extremely specific personality, a class pretty much unto myself, and only after the age of thirty did that start paying off.

By the way, I almost had that happen to me.  I was dating a woman who was VERY feminist -- reasonably feminist is great, but she was ultra --  and we got along well enough and yet, after hearing her out after a couple of dates, I put to her the question "So, according to you, what GOOD are men?"  And she couldn't answer -- not even with me around (I mean, she could have been nice enough to try).  So I didn't "turn" her from men, but I was her final phase in rejecting men altogether.  She wasn't that great a loss, and I have to chuckle as I recall this -- but yes, women do suggest that sort of thing.

Always remember that there is no shame in masturbation -- which, after all, is what this place is largely about.  If you're serious about this, though, be ready to share one hell of a lot more specifics.  Are you young, or older?  Unemployed, underemployed, successful?  How adequately do you groom and dress?  None of these specific superficial details are going to guarantee anything all by themselves -- but if you manage enough of them, you'll at least be on the radar screen.

That's about it for now.  Best luck.  

[Ladon]

I'd still probably be in the same boat, but I was lucky, and I can't really say anything I did could guarantee the same results.  I'm a pretty 'sensitive' guy, the sort that had girls in school thinking I was gay.  The sort that women usually adore, but don't actually want to go out with.

Anyway, Harmony and I were friends on another forum for almost a year, when we discovered that we lived about an hour apart.  One day we decided to talk on the phone, and the next she called and asked if I could meet her at a mall about halfway, since she had to drop off her roommate at work anyway.  Long story short, she moved in and we got married after a few months.  Just had our 4th anniversary actually.  We just fit in a lot of ways, but I do have to say she's not what I was looking for.  She's not a 'ten' in a conventional sort of way, but she tries to be, and that's what matters to me I think.

Anyway, you're probably better off working toward the person you want to be, and she'll show up when you're not looking.  It sounds lame, but it sometimes works (worst case, you've improved yourself when you decide you need to look).  Reminds me of a line I heard on Red vs Blue of all places, "A good love is like a good memory.  When it's there, and you know it's there, but it's just out of your reach, it can be all that you think about.  You can focus on it, try to force it, but the more you do, the more you seem to push it away. But if you're patient, and you hold still, maybe, just maybe, it'll come to you."

Bleh, I suck. XD

[sidewalkpsycho]

So, who is going to be brave enough to bring up the old "be yourself" bullshit?

[Omega72]

I'm 27, got a good job.

I used to look like a hobo but I cleaned myself up. Started using face scrubbers and got rid of most of the acne I had except for a few scars, also started dressing better and stopped hitting the clearance racks

She wasn't that great looking anyway, just wanted to try.

I'll try again

I appericate the replies.

[Belle]

Women pick up on desperation and they don't like it.  For a large majority of women (thank God), it's not so much about your looks or the way you dress or anything.. other than basic personal hygiene.  As long as you aren't gross, most women see right through your appearance and lock in on your personality.  And desperation is nasty.. you need to switch gears, and quick.

First of all, it sounds like you are chasing the wrong women.  At your age, you should be worried about one thing only, and that is HER personality.  Quit going after the hot or semi-hot chicks.  I'm absolutely serious.  Quit looking for a soul-mate and start looking for a friend.  It won't work in the long run unless you are best friends anyways.

Let me ask you this question.  Would you rather have a hot chick with big boobs who is a bitch and treats you like shit.. or would you rather have a not-so-hot woman, who shares all of your interests, loves you for who you are and would even change herself to better match your fantasies?

[Omega72]

the second option

[DruulEmpire]

So, who is going to be brave enough to bring up the old "be yourself" bullshit?

That's exactly why I asked him if he's a "specific" or "generic" person, because in my experience some of us need to work harder -- and I wouldn't mind hearing his answer.

As to choosing the second option: bravo!  Men can drive themselves nuts their whole lives trying to find an exact "look" when the woman inside that look is unreliable.  One of the hottest women I ever hooked up with turned out to be bipolar and, on a whim, destroyed the original manuscript of the first story I ever wrote.  You've just saved yourself a lot of hassle.

[pedonbio]

Let me ask you this question.  Would you rather have a hot chick with big boobs who is a bitch and treats you like shit.. or would you rather have a not-so-hot woman, who shares all of your interests, loves you for who you are and would even change herself to better match your fantasies?

I'm sure that Belle has given you sound advice.

Now, let me discuss the alternative. First, remember what Bette Midler said: "Your Twenties are for **83** with all the wrong people." And you need to get cracking!

Next, look up a thread in this forum titled "Relationship Advice". It has some Youtube clips of Dan Savage. Dan is gay, but his advice applies to all relationships. In one of those clips he talks about finding a long-term relationship, if that's what you're interested in. You find that, he says, by having a whole bunch of one-nighters*. Which leads to my next topic.

Next, don't knock hooking up with a few nasty bitches until you've tried it. So long as it stays below a lethal level, it can be a turn-on.

Curiosity is a wonderful thing, and I always suggest that people explore. Hell, I even found a couple of pretty hot Republicans, though I knew they weren't gonna go anywhere. Women are as different as men in bed, and it's fun to find out. I mean, a lot depends on where you live--On the West Coast we're all sluts; Alabama, not so much. Mississippi I'm not sure about; ask gOOber.

---------
*--Personally, I preferred the "few dayers" or the "one weekers", but I'm an old romantic.

[gOOber]

Mississippi I'm not sure about; ask gOOber.

I say all women are fair game providing they are of legal age and not first cousins.

[Belle]

I say all women are fair game providing they are of legal age and not first cousins.

Speaking of.. we were watching Jane Austin's "Mansfield Park" the other night.. and did you know that the two main characters that end up together at the end of the story (Fanny and Edmund) are 1st cousins?  I guess that back in 1814 that was considered ok.

Also, in "Pride and Prejudice", the younger sister, Lydia runs off and elopes at the ripe old age of 15.

Seems to me, Goob, if you were born 200 years ago.. you could revise your list to say, "all women are fair game" and end the sentence right there.

[Palomine]

For awhile now, I was trying to get a Girlfriend but I'm at the point of giving up. The girls I've tried to date either have a-hole boyfriends that they love or just palin-crazy.

Just recently, I tried to ask a girl out and got the response of "I'd rather go gay then go out with you". I don't know what to do at this point, I feel so miserable as of lately between other stuff going on with my life I just can't seem to get ahead enough to feel comfortable lately and that just put the nail in the coffin.

So, what can I do?

Oh. Boy.

First and foremost Omega72: I empathize, I really do.

Any guy can feel lonely and blue ...even the Brad-Pittiest fellow amongst us has those occasional stretches now and then when he can't get no play whatsoever: he might as well be Urkel for all the girlie action he's not gettin' ahold of (double negative very much intended). Wistful car songs be damned: when you crave companionship, being alone ain't romantic, or noble, or character-building. It just sucks.

Though I'm no Brad Pitt, I'm not exactly a troll either: I don't live under a bridge, demand tolls or eat mutton on anything like a regular basis. I like to think of myself (perhaps generously?) as being roughly halfway between the aforementioned Mr. Pitt and say... Ernest Borgnine (whom I've seen in person and can state for the record that he's not quite troll-like himself ...but I'll put him on the other side of the bell curve simply because he's a common reference and pretty far from the usual ideal of masculine sex appeal personified). So, I'll just go ahead and plunk myself down in the middle of the spectrum mannish-eye-candy-wise... looking more or less like Jon Stewart's second cousin or something.

That relative regularness, coupled with my various positive qualities (that I shan't enumerate here lest my head swell so much that vaseline be required for me to pass through doorways) has, on occasion, provided me with the opportunity to procure some genuinely-first-class trim. More than once, I've frankly marveled at my own good fortune, wondering to myself "how the fuck is a girl like THIS... so gorgeous, so sweet, so smart and so gainfully employed... how is SHE managing to smile at ME... of ALL people... WHILE my hot fresh DNA is splattered all over her pretty face and ample breasts?!" Sometimes I can't believe my luck.

So, suffice it to say that I've dated out of my league a few times... which, given my age isn't all that impressive... the odds work in your favor every now and then if you manage to stay awake and actually leave the house often enough. You strike out sometimes, and then there are the girls who like you that you've literally no interest at all in penetrating, and then... once in a while, when all the planets line up, you make a connection with someone special and wind up spending a few weeks or years sharing omelettes, trips to the dog park, visits with parents, cheesy rock and roll songs and body fluids.

More relevant though is the fact that I've had some girlfriends... some really nice girlfriends... in spite of the fact that what you typed could very well have come from my own keyboard at various points over the years, especially in my youth. Believe me, we all know how you're feeling: alone and unwanted and forever destined to remain that way as if the fates themselves were conspiring to keep your dick forever dry. Your skin breaks out, you stutter ...you practically choke on your own tongue and inexplicably reek of garlic... how else to explain the less-than-enthusiastic response that your advances elicit from the fairer sex (many of whom aren't really all that fair, but that's a topic for another day).

The fact of the matter is that though it's a truly horrid cliché... one so revolting and expected that you can't help but feel your eyes roll back into your skull upon hearing it... there IS someone out there for everyone. Even the most repugnant and wretched fellow: that sub-human guy who still hasn't caught on to that hygiene and grooming thing... you know, the one who's mere **103** into a room of breeding-age women can instantly cause all vaginas to dry up within a 65 foot radius... even that guy can 'get a little' IF he's A) persistent, B) realistic and C) able to walk upright and speak in semi-complete sentences at least half the time.

Which brings us back to you: tired of waking up alone over and over again. Always in the line up but never chosen. Forever seeking your very own Annie but winding up spending the party in the kitchen with Sandy while some other dude chats up the object of your affection prior to the all nighter they're about to share once he matter-of-factly says to her: 'your arse, my place.' So, you wind up barking like a mad dog in online forums like this one, seeking an explanation, a solution, maybe even just some solace? All perfectly understandable frustrations on your part... maybe even sufficient to warrant the momentary contemplation of suicide when it all seems a bit too much.

So, some feedback for you:

First, stop trying to date girls who already have boyfriends, whether said boyfriends happen to be assholes or not. Aside from the very bad karma such behavior invites (nay: demands!) the fact of the matter is that at that particular moment, those specific girls are off the market and unless you happen to be Brad Pitt or some reasonable facsimile thereof, the odds of any of those girls deciding to deviate from the social norms of monogamy (i.e.: break up with or cheat on their boyfriends with you) are somewhere between slim and none. Impossible? No. Very, very unlikely? Yes. If you're going to piss into the wind you've got no right to be surprised when your pants end up wet.

Second, kudos on coining 'palin-crazy' and let me echo and elaborate upon the opinion alluded to earlier that in reasonable doses, crazy can be charming, endearing and (pardon yet another cliché) sometimes even great in bed too. So, before you turn up your freshly-exfoliated nose at that oh-so-cute-but-maybe-slightly-less-than-stable chick at the bar, ask yourself: if she were never here wouldn't the potential evening the two of you might share be a hell of a lot less interesting? She might have those freaky Grinch-who-stole-Christmas eyes and mutter 'Da Da Da' under her breath between shots of vodka & schnapps but what. the. fuck?! Are you planning on running for President or something and just forgot to mention it? As long as the odds are that you're not going to wake up in the morning in a motel bathtub missing a kidney, why NOT give that 'palin-crazy' cutie a spin? Worse case scenario: you wind up home alone again yanking your crank in front of the magic porn machine. Best case scenario: you discover she's a nympho with a 180 IQ and a trust fund big enough to choke Linda Lovelace. So, what's there to lose? (Heck, if you're going to take a pass, have her drop me a PM: my sex life could do with a change of pace! ).

Thirdly and lastly, regarding the gal who professed that she'd rather spend her life muff diving instead of giving you the time of day... fuck her! Not literally (though I gather a grudge-fuck can be satisfying, I've never sampled one myself) but figuratively. How could her opinion of your spongeworthiness really mean anything at all in the grand scheme of things and thus, why should it carry any weight with you? After all, she's demonstrated that she's that absolutely no good sort of person who, for reasons unknown, would go out of her way to needlessly hurt another human being. The bitch don't work! Thus, why should you expend even an iota of consideration regarding anything she might say regarding you, the universe or anything else whatsoever? Forget her and any others like her.... the sooner the better.

OK, you're having a bad day/week/year... I get it. Heck, I'm usually not quite sure why I bother to get out of bed 3 mornings out of 4. But take it from me: the law of averages is on your side Omega72... keep up with the decent clothes and grooming, ignore abusive gonifs and keep on leaving the house on a regular basis. You do that and eventually (probably when you least expect it) some pretty chicky is going to warm up to you like a generator running at 110% capacity. Lest you think these are merely empty platitudes, let me assure you that I operate from experience AND have the law of averages backing me up: the odds are better than even, perhaps as good as 2:1 that before too long (not as soon as you'd like but probably sooner than you think) you'll be happily ensconced in some girl's heart and orifices on a more-or-less regular basis. And you'll realize that yes, finally: you're ok.

Then you can come back here and complain about how it's such a drag being in a relationship.

Good luck!

[3deroticer]

For awhile now, I was trying to get a Girlfriend but I'm at the point of giving up. The girls I've tried to date either have a-hole boyfriends that they love or just palin-crazy.

Just recently, I tried to ask a girl out and got the response of "I'd rather go gay then go out with you". I don't know what to do at this point, I feel so miserable as of lately between other stuff going on with my life I just can't seem to get ahead enough to feel comfortable lately and that just put the nail in the coffin.

So, what can I do?

That response doesn't sound mature, if anything sounds like a person detach from the living. I think getting out and doing things you enjoy would find the person right for you. I have been pretty successful with avid book reader in spite of my grasp of a proper sentence. I think it is because more people tend to take the hi-tech way of communicating and can easily tune you out and change channel and don't take the time to get to know anyone deeply. As of old fashion book reader take the time to see that things aren't always what they seem to be when they get to know the character. When I teach Tai Chi, I often get the weirdest people in my class that are on heavy medication. Not the best first impression, but after a while they become my friend and I can look past that and actually see them for who they are.

My experience of dating a so-so looking person over the most attractive one is wrong. It's the most attractive one that treats me the best, but what I found is that what I consider is attractive is not that great to others. So the only thing I can think of is that the personality somehow mingle with my eye's perception. I got that shallow Hal treatment from a hypnotist, but I cant recall that ever took place. I am okay being alone, and consider anything more is a gift. It as not a tangible bond, but a spiritual one, but in the end you go alone, but take with you the spiritual essence of all your life experience.

One thing I notice about Jane Austin is that most of her character had enough wealth to sit around and ponder about relationship, where as the hard working people didn't have time to be complicated by affairs.

Cant say that this was any help, but that I hope I don't end up with a person who had the audacity to say "I'd rather go gay then go out with you" to another person. I think you were spared from that one.

[MasterDragonfly]

Anyway, you're probably better off working toward the person you want to be, and she'll show up when you're not looking.

Quoted, as it bears repeating.

Please tell me you're not hanging out at bars trying to compete for the attentions of women. If you've done this 100 times with no success, time to quit it. At least for the time being.

Go do something YOU want to do. Like take a cooking class, or a foreign language course. Or see whether there's a small art gallery offering a private wine + cheese + closed door art showing, the sort of thing where you pay a fee. Try sailing if it's in your area. Or river rafting. Or a motorcycle safety course.

Just... something. Something which caters to small groups of 5-30 people. Change it up a little. Spend money on yourself, enjoying things YOU enjoy doing. Chances are good that if there are women there, they're there because they're interested in doing the same thing. Congratulations, you've found common ground outside of music, dancing and doing shots of peppermint schnapps.

Coming at this from another perspective, there's a certain attitude worth developing: the cocky/confident.

Also, were you raised to treat all women with incredible respect, like they can do no wrong? That saying anything vulgar around them will cause your/their world to turn brittle?  (I ask, because I can relate.) Not saying you need to belittle them, but it's surprising when you find the ones who talk the way you talk, the ones who think the way you think.

[Omega72]

I didn't think I would get this many replies from my post. The "Palin-Crazy" phrase just came to me

Dragonfly, I was raised to treat woman with respect........but I've shot my mouth off alot over time in front of them.


I've went to bars, but never tried to pick up a bar wench. The bars around here and some of the woman that go to the bars should have collars with ID tags on them. I went on Friday with a friend and the pickings weren't even slim, they were none even in my species

The funny thing is I found out AFTER they went out with me they had boyfriends that were so horrible I couldn't see why they liked them. But meanwhile, it's like they all shared the syndrome of "Asshole Boyfrienditsh"

"I'm working, boyfriend collecting and sitting on this ass not doing nothing but I love him. Had fun Though "

At this point, I've been spending money on myself. Bought some new shirts, pants are on the next trip to better Mall up in Wilkes-Barre. Where I live you gotta drive about an half hour or more just to get to a good mall that at least has some life. It's boring to be walking around in a dead mall like something would find in an old zombie movie.

I'm not looking for a big breasted girl, just someone to hang out with. It gets old to just drive somewhere by yourself, hang out by yourself and hanging out with some of my friends has became a problem due to the fact they are broke and then when they see me......I can see the loan me money stare and try to avoid them now.