[3deroticer]

I went back to Roseburg for the weekend and they had a poll in their newspaper on the campaigning. This town is notorious for being staunch Republican, and run you out of town if you were a liberal, a black man, and a gay person. I was once a bar bouncer that stop a posse threatening to beat up a mexican for being in the bar patronizing. I have never seen a redder neck town than this. The polls recently taken that they favor Obama by 3 to one in being our next president. Even in here in this forum Goober after many years of vilifying a liberal like me and Tommy, who I would have never believe be a turncoat from the Republican to think about Obama.  Still the Media have the polls breaking neck numbers. If miraculous events happen in my disbelieving eyes, then why haven't the media show this?

Sarah Palin had a support rally for her in Alaska, and then a few days later the largest record breaking rally ever held in Alaska for anti-Palin rally never got a peep in the media. So is it possible that whatever you hear about any candidate in the media is never going to be what you should hear but what gruel they want to feed you with?

[TheZookie007]

"Cult of personality", around a man who supposedly has been "speaking in platitudes" for the campaign? What do you say about the "cult" among the 28% of Americans who give the current president a passing grade, despite 9/11, Katrina, illegal wiretaps, Guantanamo, Abu Gharib, the Iraqi invasion,...?

[Dearc]

Notty, it makes me feel so much better that there's someone else here NOT lapping up the Obama-flavored ice cream.  I don't hate him personally, but I despise all politicians outright.  They have to PROVE themselves worthy of my respect.  Why?  Because I pay their salaries.  Anyone remember what the title of "taxpayer" means?  I no more believe they look out for the people anymore than an 'young person assailant' (the real word was censored) watches a daycare.

[MasterDragonfly]

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't walking into the polls and voting Republican in a large way be the same as saying, "Those last 8 years?  Yeah, good job, people!  More please!"?

One message which I could swear I've heard uttered from the McCain/Palin camp is that there's going to be change.  If so, then that means they're opposed to how at least some things have gone on in the Bush administration.  So it follows that they're trying to say, "Yes we're Republican, but we're a *different* Republican"?  If they are in fact different, then who the hell would those people who really DID like the past 8 years vote for?

I can only speculate that McCain/Palin are trying to cater to those people who:

- tend to vote Republican, but aren't too pleased with the past 8 years
- tend to vote Democrat, are sitting on the fence, and simply want a change

Seems like they're trying to play all angles.

Meh.  Wouldn't be the first time a politician tried to make everyone happy, I suppose.

Still, I can't stop thinking that voting Republican is implicit approval that Bush did well by this country for the past 8 years.

Master "please Sir, may I have another?" Dragonfly

[notty]

Quote:
Real said:
meh, point is its time for a democrat in the white house.  i dont really see that he speaks in generalities any more than any presidential candidate in the recent past or present.

what's creepy is mccain's vp's resume next to his platform for the first 90% of his campaign.  what's creepy is bringing up your pow experience when youre asked why you dont konw how many houses you have.  what's especially creepy is insinuating that teaching kindergarders about inappropriate touching is "sex ed" on a tv commercial.  what's creepy is that after 8 years of george bush this election is a dead heat.  at least in my opinion.

i actually usually find the criticisms of obama more vague and superficial than people accuse him of being as a politician.  to go ahead and discount someone because of their oratory is ignorant from iether side.  he reperesents your basic liberal democrat, relative fiscal responsibility and social progression.  the way that many inudstrialized nations get along in peace and prosperity....

Your point, maybe, but you missed mine.  Generally what happens is: congressman decides to run, congressman secures candidacy, congressman makes a bunch of promises he doesn't intend to keep, the masses, in a fit of temporary amnesia, eat it up, candidate is elected, newly sworn-in president goes to work on his personal agenda, the agenda doesn't resemble campaign speeches, people cry foul, yada yada yada...

Yet, Obama is different, Obama wouldn't do that...why, exactly?  Nevermind, rhetorical question.

I was waiting for the John McCain thread to give my John McCain rant, but since you brought him up:

John McCain should not run for president.  He should retire to one of his houses where he can ramble incessantly about the old days while his soulless robot wife spoon feeds him applesauce.  McCain is a warmonger.  It is all he truly understands, all he knows how to do.  This is a man who wants to bomb, bomb, Iran while building up our own nuclear program.  In matters domestic, he is clueless.  Apparently a devotee of Adam Smith, he worked for years and years to deregulate the markets, an experiment that turned out swimmingly, as we all saw last week.  A pity McCain lacks the wit to realize all systems fail when pushed to extremes, including capitalism.

Regarding Sarah Palin, she isn't fit to pull my dog sled.

As for Joe Biden, I got nothing.  He's too boring to even insult.

[notty]

Quote:
TheZookie007 said:
"Cult of personality", around a man who supposedly has been "speaking in platitudes" for the campaign? What do you say about the "cult" among the 28% of Americans who give the current president a passing grade, despite 9/11, Katrina, illegal wiretaps, Guantanamo, Abu Gharib, the Iraqi invasion,...?

I say we conscript them into the army and send them to the Middle East.  Then everyone is happy.

[mofoapoo]

Quote:
MasterDragonfly said:
Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't walking into the polls and voting Republican in a large way be the same as saying, "Those last 8 years?  Yeah, good job, people!  More please!"?

It boils down to that a lot of people don't vote based on democrat or republican.  They vote for how much they like the candidate.

It's obvious that over the last decade, or more, the republican party has been full of corruption.  I understand conservative views, but the republican's haven't really represented that lately.

an example, the health care problem here.  The liberal view would be universal health care.  The conservative view is eliminate all the pointless middle men that are making the price of health care sky rocket.  Democrats do lean toward the liberal view, while republicans just want to do nothing, and leave the entire money drain in there.

I think, the only way to cleanse out the republican party is that if everyone stops voting for them, they will be forced to change.  Even now, McCain, who use to have some integrity, is running his campaign the same way bush did, trying his best to only answer questions he wants to hear.  It worked for Bush, why wouldn't it work for him?

[notty]

Quote:
Dearc said:
Notty, it makes me feel so much better that there's someone else here NOT lapping up the Obama-flavored ice cream.  I don't hate him personally, but I despise all politicians outright.  They have to PROVE themselves worthy of my respect.  Why?  Because I pay their salaries.  Anyone remember what the title of "taxpayer" means?  I no more believe they look out for the people anymore than an 'young person assailant' (the real word was censored) watches a daycare.

I think some politicians are better than others, but I am extremely wary of anything that is said on the campaign trail.  It's all lowest common denominator stuff designed to attract as many voters as possible.  There is always a hidden agenda, and we don't truly know what we are getting until the candidate is sworn in.

[Real]

Quote:
notty said:

Quote:
Real said:
meh, point is its time for a democrat in the white house.  i dont really see that he speaks in generalities any more than any presidential candidate in the recent past or present.

what's creepy is mccain's vp's resume next to his platform for the first 90% of his campaign.  what's creepy is bringing up your pow experience when youre asked why you dont konw how many houses you have.  what's especially creepy is insinuating that teaching kindergarders about inappropriate touching is "sex ed" on a tv commercial.  what's creepy is that after 8 years of george bush this election is a dead heat.  at least in my opinion.

i actually usually find the criticisms of obama more vague and superficial than people accuse him of being as a politician.  to go ahead and discount someone because of their oratory is ignorant from iether side.  he reperesents your basic liberal democrat, relative fiscal responsibility and social progression.  the way that many inudstrialized nations get along in peace and prosperity....

Your point, maybe, but you missed mine.  Generally what happens is: congressman decides to run, congressman secures candidacy, congressman makes a bunch of promises he doesn't intend to keep, the masses, in a fit of temporary amnesia, eat it up, candidate is elected, newly sworn-in president goes to work on his personal agenda, the agenda doesn't resemble campaign speeches, people cry foul, yada yada yada...

Yet, Obama is different, Obama wouldn't do that...why, exactly?  Nevermind, rhetorical question.

I was waiting for the John McCain thread to give my John McCain rant, but since you brought him up:

John McCain should not run for president.  He should retire to one of his houses where he can ramble incessantly about the old days while his soulless robot wife spoon feeds him applesauce.  McCain is a warmonger.  It is all he truly understands, all he knows how to do.  This is a man who wants to bomb, bomb, Iran while building up our own nuclear program.  In matters domestic, he is clueless.  Apparently a devotee of Adam Smith, he worked for years and years to deregulate the markets, an experiment that turned out swimmingly, as we all saw last week.  A pity McCain lacks the wit to realize all systems fail when pushed to extremes, including capitalism.

Regarding Sarah Palin, she isn't fit to pull my dog sled.

As for Joe Biden, I got nothing.  He's too boring to even insult.

ah i see.  the lesser of two panderers is always the choice;  one of the flaws of modern democracy.  but when you compare the last republican administration to the last democratic one i cant help but bristle at even the perceived insinuation that they start from even ground...

[ChrisR1]

I think one of the biggest problems is having a team mentality; people get so caught up in the Us versus Them & hoping "Our guy wins" - it's especially problematic with congressional seats and all the gerrymandering of the districts so that there's such a safety net for incumbents. These people need to know that we've selected them to do our collective bidding and if they're up to shenanigans, they're out on their ass.

[notty]

Quote:
Real said:
ah i see.  the lesser of two panderers is always the choice;  one of the flaws of modern democracy.  but when you compare the last republican administration to the last democratic one i cant help but bristle at even the perceived insinuation that they start from even ground...

For some people, I guess.  For me the choice is neither candidate.  Why are we talking about degrees of insincerity?  That it exists is enough.  Even ground?  I never said that, never insinuated it.  Ask the forumites; I'm not subtle in my ways.  The ground is uneven, and that's part of my point.  I think people are somewhat less objective because the ground is so uneven, because people are so weary of George W. Bullshit. They'll rally around any guy who says, "Change, change, change," while seeing him through rose-colored glasses.  Who knows, maybe Obama is the right choice.  Maybe he'd do well as president.  But to predict he would make a good president based on his campaign seems foolish to me.

[pedonbio]

Quote:
notty said:

Your point, maybe, but you missed mine.  Generally what happens is: congressman decides to run, congressman secures candidacy, congressman makes a bunch of promises he doesn't intend to keep, the masses, in a fit of temporary amnesia, eat it up, candidate is elected, newly sworn-in president goes to work on his personal agenda, the agenda doesn't resemble campaign speeches, people cry foul, yada yada yada...

Notty, excuse me, but that paragraph demonstrates that you're not applying your usually sharp analytical skills here.

The last time a congressman was elected president was 1824. The last time a congressman got his party's nomination was 1896.

Congressmen do not do well in American presidential elections.

[notty]

Is John McCain not a member of Congress?  Is Barack Obama not a member of Congress?

Are my analytical skills not sharp because you don't agree with me?  

[Real]

Quote:
notty said:
For some people, I guess.  For me the choice is neither candidate.  Why are we talking about degrees of insincerity?  That it exists is enough.  Even ground?  I never said that, never insinuated it.  Ask the forumites; I'm not subtle in my ways.  The ground is uneven, and that's part of my point.  I think people are somewhat less objective because the ground is so uneven, because people are so weary of George W. Bullshit. They'll rally around any guy who says, "Change, change, change," while seeing him through rose-colored glasses.  Who knows, maybe Obama is the right choice.  Maybe he'd do well as president.  But to predict he would make a good president based on his campaign seems foolish to me.

really?  when people are making laws, setting domestic and foreign policy you dont think degrees of insincerity are of the utmost importance?  the ground is uneven to start to tell you the truth.  the race is a dead heat after the last 8 years of republican rule because in general america is the most right wing country in the free world.  i too think the prospect of that changing has people excited.  it has some very people very excited actually.  but what are the obama negatives being ignored that constitute the "rose colored glasses" that see this race tied?  i mean "change, change" is now the rallying cry of both sides.  what im getting at is if you pay attention, if you are inclined to, its very obvious who is far more full of shit.  the notion that politics doesnt matter because it isnt perfect is how people like geroge w end up in the most powerful office on earth....

[Hugeboobfan]

Quote:
notty said:Who knows, maybe Obama is the right choice.  Maybe he'd do well as president.  But to predict he would make a good president based on his campaign seems foolish to me.

Then why not roll the dice?  Why choose neither?