[Q_BE]

Who doesn't like tea?

Oh wait...seems like certain ancestors of ours hated the idea of taxation without representation...which is basically what we're going to get with that dang ol' Obamacare mess. Healthcare taxes are set to start next year, but the benefits in 2016. How's that hope and change working for you?

Q-"Sign me up for a Tea Party"-BE

[3deroticer]

Who doesn't like tea?

Oh wait...seems like certain ancestors of ours hated the idea of taxation without representation...which is basically what we're going to get with that dang ol' Obamacare mess. Healthcare taxes are set to start next year, but the benefits in 2016. How's that hope and change working for you?

Q-"Sign me up for a Tea Party"-BE

Actually our ancestor protest against the elite rich, this teabagging party is protesting for the rich elite.

[DruulEmpire]

What's really going to interest me about this Tavern (provided it ever really does attract any kind of Right-on-Right conversation) is whether or not there's ever going to be any discussion here of differences amongst conservatives.  I just got done seeing Dick Armey with Charlie Rose (say what you will, but he does, eventually, let guests express themselves at length).  By just about any standard, Dick Armey is arch-conservative and behind Freedom Works, which in turn works closely with all this "tea partying."  (I share 3deroticer's dubiousness as to any degree whatsoever this resembles the original Boston act, but anyhow ... )  Yet Armey is an old and recognizable brand of conservative, which I tend to associate with Pat Buchanan, who is wary of pretty much any foreign military adventures whatsoever -- and he includes our invasion of Iraq.  See, now, if someone right-of-center could get Dick Armey here and thrash this issue out with him, that might actually be a little edifiying for all the rest of us.  But as this Tavern is standing, it remains Give Me Corporations or Give Me Death claiming -- to a big boob site, curiously enough -- to be the be-all end-all of conservative thought.  But GMC/D always does that already anyway, so this Tavern becomes redundant.  It might actually be interesting to see JJ or PregNut or whoeever take up this thread a little -- but I don't know if they will.  They may simply be too much into their own personal styles to gather here on GMC/D's ground.  But we shall see.

[Tesseract]

Actually our ancestor protest against the elite rich, this teabagging party is protesting for the rich elite.

It seems the Tea Parties I went to had pretty ethnicly diverse group with a wide range of class. Didn't seem too rich to me.

Oh, should I use the term "Communist Progressive Scumbag" to describe people that don't see my point view exactly? Or do I have to think up an equally juvenile term that describes an act of using genitalia too? Just asking.

I was actually interested in reading your point of view, until that comment.

[JJ]

the "Bama man - teleprompter blues.....................

[3deroticer]

It seems the Tea Parties I went to had pretty ethnicly diverse group with a wide range of class. Didn't seem too rich to me.

Oh, should I use the term "Communist Progressive Scumbag" to describe people that don't see my point view exactly? Or do I have to think up an equally juvenile term that describes an act of using genitalia too? Just asking.

I was actually interested in reading your point of view, until that comment.

That's just it, they aren't rich, but they are fighting for the right of the wealthy class. Obama cut taxes for everyone but the top 2% of the elite wealthy class. That was the tea party initial point of protest, and now it has grown to be more than that.

[Prophet_Tenebrae]

It seems the Tea Parties I went to had pretty ethnicly diverse group with a wide range of class. Didn't seem too rich to me.

Turkeys have been known to vote for Christmas, early and often. You're making the fatally flawed assumption that people are - as I've said a few times before - inclined to make decisions based on facts, evidence and reason. People are stupid for the very reason that they regularly make them based on passion, prejudice and emotion. That part of the human condition tends to transcend ethnicity and class boundaries.

[JJ]

a pair for all the ages...................ALBERT GORE JR.    a n d    OBAMA........................

[DruulEmpire]

Evidently there's a belief that the deeper the cold, the more snow there has to be -- the corollary being that if there's more snow, it can only because the winter is so very much colder.

Anyone who actually observes winter from day to day or year to year knows this doesn't always work.  You can have a lot of snow while in the "mere" twenties, while you can have no snow for days and a clear sky while the temperature plunges far, far below zero Fahrenheit.  You look at Antarctica, it's not in a snowstorm all the time and yet it has a lot of clear and yet far-below-zero-F days.

In fact, if deeper cold always equaled more snow, one scientist friend of mine speculates that the poles woudl have sucked all water vapor out of the entire atmosphere by now.

You only need to be below 32 F to have or keep snow.  That's it, that's all.  If you're waiting for the end of snow altogether, you're waiting for a HUGE change to the entire Earth, one that could fry not only the equator but even Arizona and Texas.

Snow, like rain, comes from water vapor and is therefore dependent on heat elsewhere in the atmosphere.  I though we had all this in elementary school.

[Real]

lol, the fuck do i care what joe biden says?  unlike a good conservative i actually think for myself instead of letting anyone who espouses my general position think for me.

changing my question doesnt answer it though.  im not saying war=bad.  im saying iraq was invaded for no other reason than a conservative political theory on the democratic domino effect in the middle east.  something that was clearly planned since the 90's.  no imminent attack, no weapons, no leader more unstable than liquid al-quaeda terrorist cells, and the true front in the war on terror far to the north on the afghanistan-pakistan border.

so again; where were all these violently-indignant, fiscal responsibility-or-die, uber-patriots when a trillion dollars that tanked your economy was being pissed away on republican vanity?  we hear all the time this is not a race or even republican based movement.  the question then seems obvious.  and so does the answer.  especially with you identifying with said movement.  esepcially in revealing your thought process the way in which you brought up joe biden.  pure, unthinking, reactionary partisanship.

to answer your question without changing it; no.  if someone named gore or kerry had launched a pnac fabricated trillion dollar war based on out and out lies i would say they tanked the economy. for starters.

in fact people with those names mentioned dont rile me at all.  theyre left to rile people currently on the loser side of the culture wars, just as rush himself has said.  but then you knew that lol...

[Prophet_Tenebrae]

I thought post-communist Republicans wrote had what amounted to a lengthy treatise on the NECESSITY of an invasion of Iraq because otherwise the GOP would lose out on their home territory of security?

Hmm... I wonder if that makes it more or less morally conscionable?

Afghanistan... the Western world has to realise something. Even if we all heaved to, made the porous border to Pakistan airtight... won the battle for hearts and minds and achieved the task of making Afghanistan a solid democracy - all of which is kind of like suggesting after purchasing a winning lottery ticket you might walk outside, get struck by lightning and not only survive but get superpowers - there's Somali... there are a LOT of places you can set up your terrorist training camps. Seems like intelligence is even saying there has been a move toward African training camps. So, if it IS a fight against terrorism we want... we're probably bogging down tens of thousands of troops, while terrorists may well be having fun in other wholesome places.

The real problem is encompassed by what we will ALWAYS be taunted by... we might have the watches but they have the time.

[Prophet_Tenebrae]

a pair for all the ages...................ALBERT GORE JR.    a n d    OBAMA........................

Which is funny, as last week an ACTUAL scientific body - and I'm not sure how many PhDs those comic sketch artists yield between them, so perhaps it's not a fair fight - said the case was stronger than ever. As I said though, I'm not sure about those artists... I do know Al Gore is a douche though... I'm pretty sure he's just glad they let him ride the gravy train rather than be president, lotsa money and no responsibility WOOO! But yeah, even if he's hypocritical and we should ignore him... kind of seems stupid to think SO many scientists are just lying... I mean, the suggestion that such a scientific consensus could be bought... if that were true, then ID would have a LOT more credibility.

[JJ]

Evidently there's a belief that the deeper the cold, the more snow there has to be -- the corollary being that if there's more snow, it can only because the winter is so very much colder.

Anyone who actually observes winter from day to day or year to year knows this doesn't always work.  You can have a lot of snow while in the "mere" twenties, while you can have no snow for days and a clear sky while the temperature plunges far, far below zero Fahrenheit.  You look at Antarctica, it's not in a snowstorm all the time and yet it has a lot of clear and yet far-below-zero-F days.

In fact, if deeper cold always equaled more snow, one scientist friend of mine speculates that the poles woudl have sucked all water vapor out of the entire atmosphere by now.

You only need to be below 32 F to have or keep snow.  That's it, that's all.  If you're waiting for the end of snow altogether, you're waiting for a HUGE change to the entire Earth, one that could fry not only the equator but even Arizona and Texas.

Snow, like rain, comes from water vapor and is therefore dependent on heat elsewhere in the atmosphere.  I though we had all this in elementary school.

=============================================
You make an excellent point DE for which, as you say, the evidence has been in since we were in grade school.

=============================================
For me the question of Global Warming is more particular to the following three theories:

1) caused by mankind
2) caused by nature (God)
3) caused by combination of the two

Logically it would seem that 3. would be most likely, which leaves us with Al Gore running around the globe saying the sky is falling because we are bad people, especially we Americans, consuming so much wealth.  (Of course hypocrite 1st class in the war on global warming is Albert Gore Jr.)

That leaves us with the question of how much of it is "our" fault (insert "USA" here to be politically correct with the Radical Left).

I say little or none.  It's the height of human arrogance to believe that we can possibly know, let alone predict what is going on with our limited understanding of the Universe.  Polluting the air with your little Cadillac in Chicago is tame stuff compared to the much larger changes already in play around the Universe.

On the other hand, if you want to socialize a population into driving mini cars, fully dependent on a centralized government controlling your every move, then it makes sense to cry "the sky is falling".  Plus, you can become wealthy giving lectures on the subject.
===========================================================
more 'Bama man on the job in D.C..................................this time cutting missle defence..............

[3deroticer]

Hah Ha! Control the people with smaller cars and green technology!

I have got to remember that! That is so hilarious!

[DruulEmpire]

First, I'm not letting go of the original point with a "Well, never mind that, what about ... "  It's one thing to have different opinions about human institutions, but few things have made me fear for overall intelligence more than all this cartooning and giggling and catarrhing with laughter over Snowstorm vs. Gore.  If conservatives wanted to convince people that they are "conserving" our technical civilization, they would act like far better role models to their children when it comes to a respect for basic technical knowledge, as I assume they would like future generations to have some fundamental understanding of the principles of air conditioning and refrigeration and such, and you don't encourage that by actually bragging that you understand less than one of Jeff Foxworthy's sixth-graders.  Someone within the community ought to be shaming the cartoonists and "Fox and Friends" on this one simple point, and for the sake of their own position.  I'm serious.  Chalk up half a quickie political point at the expense of several points of the integrity of your own belief.

Anyhow, I'm glad you like answer #3, because that's the Gore position, for someone who actually looks it over instead of having it condensed for them -- and here we hit another snag of basic arithmetic.  (Honestly, if Rush wants to claim in his 35 truths that arithmetic is important, it would be nice to quit having trouble with it.)  It's absolutely true that one Cadillac won't bring down the world.  But millions of cars and thousands of power plants here and around the world 24/7 have a cumulative effect.

I would love nothing better than to have back much of the situation in the 19th Century, when the population and its energy demands were small enough that it barely mattered what we did.  But we've been dedicated to a model of constant growth -- which wouldn't be that bad, if we had by now mastered our ultimate eventual step out into outer space, but we haven't licked that yet.  At some point you don't have it both ways, you don't get to say "Infinite growth!" and "Oh, but we're so tiny" in the same (polluted) breath anymore.  So the only disagreement is over timetables.  You're saying it doesn't feel right.  I agree, it's a nuisance.  Feeling perfectly fine and then having the doctor give you bad news, that's a nuisance too, but you perk up and pay attention.  Some of us are listening to the doctor.