[andrat2000]

Only a deliberately- and willfully-ignorant partisan would look at this and think it's justifiable, or that it in any way has a counterpart on the Democrat side. Because as Rep. Eric Swalwell (House Intelligence Committee) said:

"...to receive damaging information from a representative of a foreign adversary -- that's a betrayal of our country... this is not like somebody who walks in and says 'I work in politics and I've got some information on your opponent.' This is somebody who is from Russia, where very often Russian nationals are connected to the Russian Intelligence Services, especially around politics, and so the fact that this wasn't passed along to the FBI or the Department of State also very much concerns me."

It's incredible to think that there are still people who reflexively support this, and who continue to characterize "collusion" as "no big deal, the other side did it too, and Obama! Hillary! Podesta! Emails!" It's not "merely" collusion. This is aiding, abetting, and participating in espionage against these United States, in pursuit of political power (and self-enrichment).

Seth Abramson's Mega-Thread on Trump Jr.-Russia Meet: A useful timeline and explainer

Partisan? Like in resistance fighter? This would perfectly explain their received call for action to murder CNN staff.

[StrikezOne]

Only a deliberately- and willfully-ignorant partisan would look at this and think it's justifiable, or that it in any way has a counterpart on the Democrat side.

Yeah sure. Someone who NEVER questions or criticizes Democrats or the left has all the credibility in the world to talk about a "deliberate, willful ignorant partisan."

[andrat2000]

So in an attempt to gather incriminating material against Hillary Clinton, Trumpel jr. was willing to give away the US to Russia.

What's the sentence in the US for high treason?

I feel that to his high treason I need to add that Trumpel jr. now has provided evidence in e-Mails that he wanted to give a way the US to Russia in exchange for the incriminating material.

In other words the Trumple partisan demagogic propaganda of "big nothinger burger" turned into real news and the "big nothing burger" turned into FAKE NEWS.
Well but we are used to the permanent lying and FAKE NEWS coming from the white house, GOP and Trumpel staff.

I think a worser group of people the US hardly see before. What a shame for a once proud country to lose every credibility in the rest of world and to the people that knew, but weren't listen to, from the beginning that the Trumpel and his team better belong to jail.

[rtpoe]

Thanks for that link to the timeline/summary, Zook!

Here's another explainer, connecting dots over an even longer time frame:

"The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Is Now Very Simple" - David Corn, Mother Jones, 7-11-17
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/07/the-trump-russia-conspiracy-is-now-very-simple/

"This is what ought to register: The scheme appears to have been put into play by a Putin regime official and a Putin-friendly oligarch who was Trump’s business partner in Russia—and Trump’s son, son-in-law, and campaign manager all joined in. (A pop singer, a Russian lawyer, and a talent manager all had supporting roles.) Trump Jr., Kushner, and Manafort were looking to collude with a foreign power to gain an advantage in the election—an allegation the Trump team has repeatedly and passionately denied."

Today, Politico asked the question:

"What Is Collusion? Is It Even a Crime?"
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-215366

They asked many legal experts their opinions on the criminality of what happened. Some possibilities (emphases mine):

"For example, if Donald Trump Jr. sought “dirt” on Hillary Clinton from the Russians, he might be charged with conspiring to violate the election laws of the United States, which prohibit foreign nationals from contributing any “thing of value” to an electoral campaign." - Paul Rosenzweig, former deputy assistant secretary for policy at the Department of Homeland Security.

"Collusion is the descriptive word the news media has settled on to cover many potential illegal actions by the Trump campaign, which could range from aiding and abetting (18 USC 2) to conspiracy per se (18 USC 371) to conspiring to violate several potentially applicable laws like: 18 USC 1030—fraud and related activity in connection with computers; 18 USC 1343—wire fraud; or 52 USC 30121—contributions and donations by foreign nationals. Also, 18 USC 2381—for, contrary to a widespread belief that there must be a declared war, the Justice Department as recently as 2006 indicted for “aid and comfort” to our enemies, the form of collusion better known as treason." - John Dean, former White House Counsel to Richard Nixon

"There is also a crime called “misprision of felony” that means you know that a felony has been committed and you actively work to conceal the crime.... It would also be a crime for someone to offer to act in an official capacity, by repealing a law or discontinuing sanctions against Russia, in exchange for something of value." - Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor

"There is a statute punishing conspiracies to defraud the United States, including conspiracies to interfere with a governmental function by fraud. " - William Jeffress, a defense attorney at Baker Botts. He represented I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby in the Valerie Plame affair.

"The question of the underlying crime here might be tricky [emphasized for fairness - rtpoe], and would include possible violation of campaign contribution laws. But if there is an underlying campaign violation in play legally, the email and meeting are very strong evidence of a nascent conspiracy and attempt to commit such an offense." - Samuel Buell, a law professor at Duke University and a former federal prosecutor who led the Justice Department’s prosecution of Enron Corporation.

"What has been leaked to the press so far are all fragments of possible lines of criminal inquiry. They neither complete the picture for possible prosecution, nor rule out the idea that prosecutions could come about." - Mark S. Zaid and Bradley P. Moss, national security attorneys [again, included for fairness - rtpoe]

"There is no crime of collusion, but if it were proved, that evidence might establish other crimes, such as conspiracy to commit cybercrime (with respect to hacking) or campaign finance violations (with respect to soliciting a thing of value from a foreign government, namely damaging information)." - Norman Eisen, chief White House ethics lawyer from 2009 to 2011

So that's "collusion". Not necessarily a crime per se, but an umbrella term covering conspiracy, aiding and abetting, and the like.

Another term worth looking in to is what the intelligence community calls an "unwitting agent", which is essentially a person who is tricked or duped into working on your behalf.

And don't forget the obstruction of justice and tampering with an investigation involved in the firing of James Comey....

[StrikezOne]

Yeah sure. Someone who NEVER questions or criticizes Democrats or the left has all the credibility in the world to talk about a "deliberate, willful ignorant partisan."

This might be the post of the year so far. It pretty much summarizes this thread.

I knew it would get ignored for that reason.

[TheZookie007]

Today, Politico asked the question:

"What Is Collusion? Is It Even a Crime?"
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-215366

They asked many legal experts their opinions on the criminality of what happened...

I appreciated that roundup, because we non-lawyers may throw around terms like "collusion" thinking that it has a legal basis, etc. and not realize what the terms actually mean:

Not necessarily a crime per se, but an umbrella term covering conspiracy, aiding and abetting, and the like.

This troop aren't "unwitting agents"; they're witless agents. Like John Oliver said a few months ago, we're living through "Stupid Watergate".

[TheZookie007]

Title II protections being removed would make it hard for you to receive your daily dose of wackadoodle-doo from Faux News, as well as other news sources. No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, it would be in your best interest to make your voice heard so that the current FCC Chairman does the right thing for once. Because Net Neutrality's not a partisan issue.

And to Ajit Pai, I say, along with John Oliver:

[andrat2000]

Only a deliberately- and willfully-ignorant partisan would look at this and think it's justifiable, or that it in any way has a counterpart on the Democrat side. Because as Rep. Eric Swalwell (House Intelligence Committee) said:

"...to receive damaging information from a representative of a foreign adversary -- that's a betrayal of our country... this is not like somebody who walks in and says 'I work in politics and I've got some information on your opponent.' This is somebody who is from Russia, where very often Russian nationals are connected to the Russian Intelligence Services, especially around politics, and so the fact that this wasn't passed along to the FBI or the Department of State also very much concerns me."

It's incredible to think that there are still people who reflexively support this, and who continue to characterize "collusion" as "no big deal, the other side did it too, and Obama! Hillary! Podesta! Emails!" It's not "merely" collusion. This is aiding, abetting, and participating in espionage against these United States, in pursuit of political power (and self-enrichment).

Seth Abramson's Mega-Thread on Trump Jr.-Russia Meet: A useful timeline and explainer

Partisan? Like in resistance fighter? This would perfectly explain their received call for action to murder CNN staff.

More evidence that Trumpel and his goons are out to come after those that critic them:
https://www.propublica.org/article/marc-kasowitz-trump-lawyer-threat-emails-maddow

So Trumpels lawyer wants to come after a retiree at his home because he sent him a mail ...
What people are these Trumpel and GOP lovers, supporters, staff, fans, ...

They are not normal. If they fall in such a rage for a simple e-Mail, murdering crtic isn't far away. As could be seen in that call for action from Trumpel to murder CNN staff.

[rtpoe]

Every rock you turn over has more and more creepy crawlies under it.

Remember back in March when Trump fired US Attorney Preet Bharara for no apparent reason? Well, you probably missed the news that the case he was working on (involving money laundering by Russian mobsters in New York real estate) was surprisingly settled in May for the mere pittance of $6 million (compared to the laundered amount of over $200 million))

"It's almost an admission that they shouldn't have brought the case," Faith Gay of Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan LLP, told Reuters. "The settlement is the amount it would have cost to try the case."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-prevezon-idUSKBN18904I

By the way, there were also a couple of suspicious deaths on the Russian side of that case, including the lawyer who exposed the fraud - the same Sergei Magnitsky, for whom the Magnitsky Act was named (you know, the one blocking adoptions from Russia, that Don Jr. was allegedly meeting with the Russians about).

Anyway, it turns out that Trump's attorney Mark Kasowitz bragged that he played a key role in getting Bharara fired.

http://www.propublica.org/article/trump-personal-lawyer-boasted-that-he-got-preet-bharara-fired

To be fair, the guy's been known to brag about his influence and accomplishments.

But still.....

Oh.... The lawyer representing the biggest company involved in the money laundering scandal?

Natalia Veselnitskaya - the person Don Jr. was going to meet with for dirt on Clinton....

And don't forget, the money laundering was to be done by purchasing high-end luxury real estate in NYC....

A number of Congressmen want to know more....

http://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/7.12.17%20LETTER%20AG%20SESSIONS%20-%20WE%20WANT%20ANSWERS%20ON%20FRAUD%20SETTLEMENT%2C%20MEETING%20AT%20TRUMP%20TOWER.pdf

[andrat2000]

Everybody knows Russian mafia is well involved with Putin and Trumpel is deeply involved with Russian mafia. So Trumpel gave the US away in an act high treason.

[TheZookie007]

Vanity Fair: "Republican Who Sought Clinton’s E-mails from Russian Hackers Committed Suicide"

Days after speaking with The Wall Street Journal about his attempts to work with Russian hackers to obtain deleted e-mails from Hillary Clinton’s private server, Republican operative Peter W. Smith died of an apparent suicide in a Minnesota hotel room, the Chicago Tribune reports. “NO FOUL PLAY WHATSOEVER,” read a suicide note left behind at the scene. “RECENT BAD TURN IN HEALTH SINCE JANUARY, 2017 . . . TO LIFE INSURANCE OF $5 MILLION EXPIRING.”

Smith, 81, who had implied to those he approached that he was working for former Trump campaign adviser Michael Flynn, though he’d later tell the Journal that Flynn was not involved in his search for the e-mails, was said to be in poor health, former associates told the Tribune. Shane Harris, who wrote the explosive Journal story about Smith weeks ago, said that he “had no indication that [Smith] was ill or planning to take his own life” after the Tribune published its story Thursday. The hotel in Rochester, Minnesota where Smith was staying is known to be frequented by Mayo Clinic patients, but a spokeswoman did not confirm to the Tribune if Smith had been a patient there.

Smith was found with a bag over his head with a source of helium gas attached. According to the Tribune, asphyx!ation with helium is a method promoted by the Final Exit Network, a non-profit that offers information to people who suffer from terminal illness and want to commit suicide. Police, who do not suspect foul play, also found a Walmart receipt for “Helium Jumbo,” among other items, although they said they had not reviewed security camera footage to see who made the purchase.

Can't wait for the nutty "ARGH!!!!^^^DEEP STATE!!!^!!!!KILLLARYYYYYY!" crowd to start in on this...although to be fair to them for once, I'm not sure that the very best way to make people think that no foul play was committed, was for the suicide note to have "NO FOUL PLAY WHATSOEVER" all over it...

[Robin_K2]

I have been a close reader of several newspapers every day -- local, state and national -- for decades. It falls within my daily work responsibilities. And, of course, informed public debate is critical in a democratic republic.

I hesitate to mention this, but I'm curious about others. This last year, at times, I have made a conscious decision not to read the national news. This has gone on for days at a time.

I just need to do this (or, rather, not do this) to preserve my emotional well-being. When I do pay attention, I'm tempted to fall into deep depression and go on a bender to anesthetize myself. Been there, done that, and I dare not go back.

I don't mean to be critical of any party or personality. I'm merely stating a fact about myself. I cannot take -- I cannot withstand -- 2017 news on a daily basis. I'm not strong enough. I need to preserve my mental health.

Anyone else making similar adjustments in media consumption?

[CarlTL]

I have been a close reader of several newspapers every day -- local, state and national -- for decades. It falls within my daily work responsibilities. And, of course, informed public debate is critical in a democratic republic.

I hesitate to mention this, but I'm curious about others. This last year, at times, I have made a conscious decision not to read the national news. This has gone on for days at a time.

I just need to do this (or, rather, not do this) to preserve my emotional well-being. When I do pay attention, I'm tempted to fall into deep depression and go on a bender to anesthetize myself. Been there, done that, and I dare not go back.

I don't mean to be critical of any party or personality. I'm merely stating a fact about myself. I cannot take -- I cannot withstand -- 2017 news on a daily basis. I'm not strong enough. I need to preserve my mental health.

Anyone else making similar adjustments in media consumption?

Yes.

[TheZookie007]

I have been a close reader of several newspapers every day -- local, state and national -- for decades. It falls within my daily work responsibilities. And, of course, informed public debate is critical in a democratic republic.

I hesitate to mention this, but I'm curious about others. This last year, at times, I have made a conscious decision not to read the national news. This has gone on for days at a time.

I just need to do this (or, rather, not do this) to preserve my emotional well-being. When I do pay attention, I'm tempted to fall into deep depression and go on a bender to anesthetize myself. Been there, done that, and I dare not go back.

I don't mean to be critical of any party or personality. I'm merely stating a fact about myself. I cannot take -- I cannot withstand -- 2017 news on a daily basis. I'm not strong enough. I need to preserve my mental health.

Anyone else making similar adjustments in media consumption?

Yes. I have let my subscriptions to both the print and the digital editions of my hometown newspaper lapse. I have refused to watch the local news and network news since November 9, 2016. I am watching a hell of a lot of the Disney Channel and Nickelodeon lately though!

You are so right, Robin: with all the truly destructive news coming out of Washington DC on a daily basis, news that should be alarming to any American of any political bent, it is quite necessary for the citizenry to do all in their power to preserve their mental health. And to do this while at the same time attempting to remain informed (because an informed populace is necessary for the smooth and effective running of a democratic republic) is a tough row to hoe.

Out of all the simply horrible appointments to the current cabinet, as bad as the VP, the Attorney-General, Secy. of the Treasury, and the Secy. of State are, I think the worst of the lot, in the long run, is Secy. of Education Betsy deVos. The best way to fuck up a country does not involve going to war or dropping bombs or having a proliferation of guns. All you need to do is destroy the elementary education system. It's the worst kind of generational domino effect: ill-educated elementary students go on to become ill-educated high school students, who go on to enter the workforce and/or go on to become ill-educated university students. In less than 25 years, we shall see the results of this -- unless it is somehow stopped before then. And even then, it will probably be too late. You can bet your bottom dollar that other countries, which are churning out literally hundreds of thousands of engineers a year, are not sitting back waiting around for us to get our shit together...
 

[TheZookie007]

This exchange between Shepard Smith and Chris Wallace is pretty amazing:

“If there’s nothing there––and that’s what they tell us, there’s nothing to this, and nothing came of it, it's all a nothing burger… if all of that, why all these lies? Why is it lie after lie after lie? [...] The deception, Chris, is mind-boggling. And there are still people out there who believe we’re making it up. And one day they’re gonna realize we’re not.”

I'm truly amazed at those people who want to say that this is all "nothing". (How they know it's all "nothing" when they haven't finished the investigation into it all, is another story.) To quote John Oliver:

“There may be Americans hidden in plain view, working on behalf of Russia, is not 'boring' -- it's literally a fucking Emmy-nominated TV show!”

Going back to that clip: I listened to Shep Smith and really was surprised. He seemed very emotional about the whole thing. I guess, like me, he feels that having Russian assets in the White House is quite upsetting. I wager that he was raised in a conservative household, and raised in a time when it was believed that, when it comes to your country, there are some lines that should never be crossed...and this may just be one of those lines. After all, this isn't about "liberal" versus "conservative", or about "Democrat" versus "Republican", and this isn't a dispute over policy or political theories. The current occupants of the executive branch of government, along with their enablers in the legislative branch, are doing things that should bother anybody with a conscience. And that goes even beyond the lies. As just one example, why would a government functionary tell the members of the press to turn off their cameras and their microphones during a White House press briefing? In fact, they were forbidden from doing so. Has that functionary and/or his/her boss forgotten about the First Amendment? How on earth can anyone of any political persuasion believe that that is acceptable?

It's mind-boggling.