[BarnacleBill]

 

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Guess the word got out a fat, short man with a bad attitude to unwanted guests was not to be fucked with  

this would be a great movie quote

[Dearc]

Firearms are only killing machines when they're being used to kill.  The other part, "machines,"  is just that...a tool to be used.  Every tool needs a user and intent.

As for  "numerous comments in this thread insinuating that others who disagree with you are like doe-eyed naive hippies yearning for utopia, or now "leftist communists."   These were in RESPONSE to others flatly making insults to me personally, like "sloppy non-thinking" or lacking a "scintilla of intelligence", etc.  These are not the way to properly have a civil debate with total strangers.  That's why I'm not getting as angry.  You seemed to have forgotten my jab at the French WAS A JOKE!  I even said as much RIGHT AFTERWARD.  And no, I don't listen to right-wing American radio, so I can't "repeat their lame cliches."  I don't listen to left-wing radio, either, so I can't determine if you're repeating theirs, either.

Although you obviously calmed down from your previous posts, which I was expected another heated exchange upon logging in today, I can still see a healthy arguement.

I actually have less firearms experience than most "gun enthusiasts."  I served in the U.S. Army, Military Police, for 5 years, another 2 years as a security contractor.  I'm a pro-gun advocate because it's legal and respected, well, by my peers anyway.  I'll never see a problem with this.  I know I'm responsible enough to handle any firearm.

Ok, you mentioned why gun-nuts don't care about drugs.  I'm no gun-nut, but you're probably right: I don't care enough about drugs.  I'm guessing it's because there are too many Americans who like the drugs, and parents stopped giving a shit a long time ago.  I know enough that it's bad for you...like cigarettes or **92** driving.  I'll let others fight that battle.

You also mentioned unlawful wiretapping.  Again, the courts can deal with that.  If they're unlawfully tapping people that they shouldn't be, how will WE ever know?  Subpeona the gov't phone bills?  Let the watch-dog groups deal with that.  I've got a meager lifestyle to maintain.  I know personally that I've no intentions against the gov't, or willing to support terrorists, massive violence, etc.  You could call it the "ostrich syndrome", but I say I'm behaving myself and minding to my own.

We can't expect everyone care about the same things as we do, or as much.  I've also said I'm willing to put this behind me, but it seems the anti-gun movement has taken over this thread, and felt the need to chime in.

Isn't there any other Pres. Obama news worth bringing up?

[Hugeboobfan]

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Dearc said:
Firearms are only killing machines when they're being used to kill.  The other part, "machines,"  is just that...a tool to be used.  Every tool needs a user and intent.

Sooo.... besides maiming and killing people, what are the other uses of handguns?

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Although you obviously calmed down from your previous posts, which I was expected another heated exchange upon logging in today, I can still see a healthy arguement.

Don't misinterpret my level of excitement on my previous posts.  I doubt this thread has raised my blood pressure one point (either systolic or diastolic).

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Ok, you mentioned why gun-nuts don't care about drugs.  I'm no gun-nut, but you're probably right: I don't care enough about drugs.  I'm guessing it's because there are too many Americans who like the drugs, and parents stopped giving a shit a long time ago.  I know enough that it's bad for you...like cigarettes or **92** driving.  I'll let others fight that battle.

See, that's the thing.  It has nothing to do with the drugs themselves and whether or not they are bad for you (which in the case of marijuana at least, is highly questionable).  The important part is that the government can easily infringe on your civil liberties because of the war on drugs.  It's the war on drugs that has led to the militarization of the police force.  That has led to "no-knock" warrants.  That has led to skyrocketing funding of police (governmental) agencies.  That has led to the government being able to confiscate your cash if you are carrying amounts in excess of what the government deems acceptable.

Why does this not bother you?  You talk about having guns to protect against government tyranny, but I guess the only tyranny you worry about is when the government tries to restrict your precious gun rights.  Everything else is fair game.

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You also mentioned unlawful wiretapping.  Again, the courts can deal with that.  If they're unlawfully tapping people that they shouldn't be, how will WE ever know?  Subpeona the gov't phone bills?  Let the watch-dog groups deal with that.  I've got a meager lifestyle to maintain.  I know personally that I've no intentions against the gov't, or willing to support terrorists, massive violence, etc.  You could call it the "ostrich syndrome", but I say I'm behaving myself and minding to my own.

Wait, you don't have any intentions against the gov't no matter what?  I thought keeping the government in check was part of the point in owning guns.  

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We can't expect everyone care about the same things as we do, or as much.  I've also said I'm willing to put this behind me, but it seems the anti-gun movement has taken over this thread, and felt the need to chime in.

No, I don't expect you to care about the same things as I do.  But it would have been nice if you didn't conform to my stereotype of american gun-rights advocate.

[rtpoe]

On the topic of government tyranny, I always have to wonder what the Gun Advocates consider to be sufficient tyranny to warrant their taking up arms and going to battle.

I recall those Glory Days of the NRA...

In early 1942, when President Roosevelt's Executive Order 9066 authorized the internment of Japanese Americans, NRA members gathered arms and stopped the trains... And where they couldn't stop the trains in time, they raided the camps and released everyone...

In 1957, when Governor Orval Faubus called out the Arkansas National Guard to prevent the integration of Little Rock Central High School, local NRA members stood up to that tyranny and escorted the nine African-American students safely to school...

In the summer of 1964, when civil rights activists went to Mississippi to help African-American citizens register to vote, NRA members from all over America joined in to provide security for them...

The memories all bring a tear to my eye...

These days, the only "government tyranny" the gun nuts seem willing to fight is the "tyranny" of having their guns "taken away".

[TheZookie007]

rtpoe, if what you say is true, then obviously the NRA has gone down the same road as has **02**: an organization started by sensible people with laudable aims, taken over by nutjobs with views and attitudes so extreme that the original founders have disavowed the actions of their successors. Sad.

[Dearc]

Another use for handguns, well, great paperweights!  lol

Let the cops kick in every fucking crackhouse, and toss the maggots in prison.  I have no sympathies for drug addicts.  If they can't clean up their acts, prison will do it for them.  If I believed in a god, I'd thank him everyday for our honorable men & women in blue, whom you seem to compare to Nazis, without having called them as such.

I own guns for my own protection, peace of mind, and sometimes, my own personal amusement.  I don't give a shit about YOUR problems, or what YOU care about.

Huge, as far as I'm concerned, all you care about is picking apart other people's posts, opinionated or factual, and using them to further some spin about how they're the one not playing ball here on the Forum.  Still, I haven't seen anything new from you; either contribute something original, or STFU.

Seriously, what the fuck do you care about what I think?  It'd be nice if you, and several others like you, weren't conforming to my stereotype of an American hippie.

[Real]

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notty said:

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Real said:
i was characterizing your misrepresentation of population density as an overriding factor in gun murders.  then contradicted by your pointing out the the even lower gun crime rate of australia.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. You failed to grasp my argument, or read what I wrote, or both. Cultural and political factors are the overriding factors. However, when cultural and political factors are similar, you must look deeper. The first place you look is population distribution. The second place you look is socioeconomic distribution (don't even want to go there, already wasted enough time on this). And so on. My argument isn't thin, but your head certainly is thick! You're the one attempting to squeeze simplicity from complexity. And, BTW, you stupid fuck, the population density in Australia is less than the population density in Canada.

I have to put you on ignore now. I truly can't afford to spend any more time on this, and I can't not call you out when you say something moronic (which is often). So, yah, I think this is the best option. Buhbye, hoser!

oh dang youre totally right.  i attributed 31 rather than 21 million to australia.  ill retract my assertion that you contradicted yourself, you did not.  you are simply wrong in attributing the us' aberrant gun murder rate to population density, which is exactly what you did in naysaying me all the way along before finally just articulating a real opinion above.  and once and yet again sorry bringing up canada ruffled your feathers so much, i knew you were a sour cow i just didnt know how much of one lol.
peace.

[notty]

[Hugeboobfan]

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Dearc said:
Let the cops kick in every fucking crackhouse, and toss the maggots in prison.  I have no sympathies for drug addicts.  If they can't clean up their acts, prison will do it for them.  If I believed in a god, I'd thank him everyday for our honorable men & women in blue, whom you seem to compare to Nazis, without having called them as such.

Ahh... so you treasure your freedom and like to mind your own, but if someone (heaven forbid) wants to partake in a substance in their own home, bothering no one else, then it's time to kick their door down and throw them in prison.  Land of the free!

They can get outrageously **92** in their own home though, because the government tells us that's acceptable and whatever the government says is right.  Right?

I wonder which side you would have been on in prohibition days.  Probably cursing all those bootlegging maggots.

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I own guns for my own protection, peace of mind, and sometimes, my own personal amusement.  I don't give a shit about YOUR problems, or what YOU care about.

Roar!

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Huge, as far as I'm concerned, all you care about is picking apart other people's posts, opinionated or factual, and using them to further some spin about how they're the one not playing ball here on the Forum.  Still, I haven't seen anything new from you; either contribute something original, or STFU.

I'm sorry that me disagreeing with some of your posts on an off-topic discussion forum upsets you so.

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Seriously, what the fuck do you care about what I think?  It'd be nice if you, and several others like you, weren't conforming to my stereotype of an American hippie.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[pedonbio]

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TheZookie007 said:
rtpoe, if what you say is true, then obviously the NRA has gone down the same road as has **02**: an organization started by sensible people with laudable aims, taken over by nutjobs with views and attitudes so extreme that the original founders have disavowed the actions of their successors. Sad.

There's some truth there, and his name is Wayne LaPierre. In the 1980s he was hired as executive director of NRA and immediately wedded it to the Republican Party and burned his bridges to everyone else. The irony, of course, is that, despite LaPierre's zeal at spinning conspiracy theories for direct-mail money raising (which, incidentally, has made him very rich) there isn't any great gun-ban enthusiasm among Democrats.

By the way, did you catch any of those silly gun-nut videos on YouTube about how the Democrats were gonna round up gun owners and put 'em in concentration camps in February?? Didn't they get the memo about how we'll do that in April?

[SwitcherX]

 for when the gun grab comes

[Dearc]

Huge, are you saying you're all about legalization of certain narcotics?  If they were legal, guns would somehow be less neccessary?  I'm not sure I'm tracking on this one.  I mean, what does drugs have to do with legitimate firearm ownership?

I can most certainly handle a disagreement; it's when the counter-arguement makes as little or no sense whatsoever.  Disbanding the military, guns do NOTHING but kill, cops getting the upper hand on drug dealers by the tactical element of suprise, ie "no-knock warrants."  Have you also forgotten that sometimes drug dealers outgun the cops?  These are some truly fucked up individuals that would probably fight to the death to stay out of prison.  I'm all for "no-knock warrants", the use of CS gas and flashbangs.  If such an intrusion deems to be an unlawful entry, let the victim take it to court.  Laws are meant to protect everyone, but they're not perfect.

Tell me, what would you do if someone busted in your home?  Sit there and let it happen?  Chances are, you're probably too far, too asleep, or just not home to do anything about it.  Yes, I'm a confrontational S-O-B with a flashpoint temper, but to hell with it.  In the Army we had a saying: "Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6."

Gun ownership isn't the only thing I care about.  I used to donate, but if anyone lives in this country, we all feel the pinch.

Regarding all those horrible events in our nation's past, I can't speak for why there wasn't a larger outcry.  Plainly saying it was racsism and moving on might be the tip of the iceberg, but that's another topic.  Gun-nuts aren't going to revolt all at the same time, and chorus out "See, that's why we're armed!"  I believe it's a contingency plan for all the things that we can't think of to plan for.

Look, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but I get the idea I'm about to repeat myself, and the mods will surely clamp down on me for that.  I don't see guns going away anytime soon.  Chances are most people will be killed by a **92** driver several times over before they get shot at.  The only response to that is more cops, tougher fines and longer prison sentences.  When people are shot, the offenders are sent away for murder.  Is it possible innocent people die?  Absolutely.

I can't find an exact census of gun owners, but out of a population of about 300 million, let's say a third of them own firearms.  That's 100 million, and a major portion of them didn't shoot anyone today.

Oh, and referring to Switcher's post-link, even I'm not THAT fucking crazy!  lol

[rtpoe]

I think my subtle sarcasm went over the heads of TheZookie and Pedonbio. The NRA wasn't involved in any of those events.

The NRA was founded in 1871 by some retired Union officers who were dismayed at the lack of marksmanship of many of their troops in the Civil War. The intent was to give people an opportunity to improve their skills. Which should still be the primary focus of the NRA today.

[TheZookie007]

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rtpoe: I think my subtle sarcasm went over the heads of TheZookie and Pedonbio. The NRA wasn't involved in any of those events.

Ah, I see.

But my statement still remains valid, I think.

[pedonbio]

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rtpoe said:
I think my subtle sarcasm went over the heads of TheZookie and Pedonbio. The NRA wasn't involved in any of those events.

 

rtpoe, both Zookie and I know full well your point: The NRA, for all its zeal about "rights" has never stood up for anybody who wasn't white. They are probably the most racist organization still active in the U.S. When they take positions on public issues other than direct Second Amendment issues, they have been actively on the wrong side.

And while the NRA wasn't "active" in the Japanese-American internment, the membership of the NRA in California and Washington was almost a complete overlap with the Sons of the Golden West, a KKK-like anti-Asian group that thrived on the West Coast from 1900 to 1950.