[Insightful]

After "lurking" for a bit, I'm inspired by the numerous insightful comments I've read from what seems like multiple nice people, and I've decided to dive in and ask advice for a troubling matter. Any constructive comments would be welcome.

My GF and I have been together for 8 years. At first she wore a 36G or H bra. She exercised regularly (still does) and had no back pain. 2 years ago, pain started. She asked me to gather info about back pain treatments including breast reduction surgery. I gathered (emphasizing non-surgical options and listing surgery only as a last resort) and presented my info. She seemed dismissive about my labors but agreed eventually to let me take her to a custom-bra fitter (last October). The fitter said she should be wearing a 36N bra. My gf said she was considering BR surgery at the suggestion of her doctor. The fitter responded, "I've never said this to any of my customers before, but I've never seen anyone with the amt of breast tissue you have, so I would consider the surgery if I were you." (Thanks a lot, bra-fitter.) She saw a PS a few weeks later who recommended she lose weight and return in several months. Meanwhile, her GP referred her to a physio-therapist whom she saw 3x a week for about a month. She felt better after the sessions but the pain (shoulder, upper and/or lower back, tingling in arm) returned. She also got a shot (once) to relieve pain, but again the pain returned after several days. (She refuses to take "pain-killers," but occasionally uses Absorbine Jr., which helps temporarily.) Some days are good, some bad. I feel terrible when I see her get out of bed and instinctively put her hands behind her back.

I have suggested she try acupuncture and/or a chiropractor and I offered to take her to a custom-bra maker (she agreed to that but changed her mind when I told her the distance we'd have to travel -- custom-bra makers are few & far-between). Instead she saw the PS again. He noted her 30 pound weight loss (she's 5'6" and is now about 175 lbs) and told her to wait until he gets confirmation that her insurance co. will approve the procedure. (It rejected it after her first visit last fall.) Yesterday the doc's secretary called with the news: insurance co. approved the surgery and approval is good for 30 days. And incidentally, although apparently her boobs increased seven cup sizes in about as many years, after her recent weight loss her cup size changed not a bit. (If anything they're a little snug.)

So. After several battles (i.e., arguments about exhausting non-surgical treatment first) over the last 2 years, the war is lost. What's a fella to do? I'm not a complete dolt; I would sanction the surgery ("breast muti-lation" she once called it) if truly there was no other way to relieve her pain. Removing the pain from the equation for a moment, allow me to boast she is a magnificent physical specimen. (She's in her early 50s and looks fantastic, at least a decade younger. I attach a pic to give you an idea but obscured her face. Sorry.) Regrettably my gal is on the conservative side and is a master at hiding her assets. She won't go out without a spandex-like vest covering her bra (and constricting her breasts) underneath her blouse. Occasionally tho she'll put on a clingy dress and a bit of cleavage at last is visible and  . . . wow.

But the pain IS part of the equation and she seems to be convinced BR surgery will be her salvation, downside be damned. Scars and possible loss of sensation and even nipple necrosis? Oh well. Here's part of a post she made recently at women's health site. "For me, breast reduction is not just about the pain, it is about relieving the stress on my shoulders and being able to exercise with less difficulty." (Her post brought a flood of encouraging BR veterans cheering "you go, girl," "best thing I've ever done," "it's wonderful to find clothes that fit" and "tell your bf you'll feel sexier after the surgery," etc.) I've bought Enell bras for her but she still has to wear another bra over it when exercising (including back-strengthening exercises she's done for years). When I suggested getting a custom-made sports bra from Enell, she says no, the problem is the design -- "it's just not supportive enough" -- end of discussion. She insists her breasts have become heavier and droopier in recent years and the increased weight is just too much for her anymore, and no bra will give her enough support.

Help. Is it indeed hopeless? I wish she could talk to someone with her figure, in her age group, who's not in pain. Any words of wisdom would be much appreciated. I thank you. (The clock is ticking.)

[mcgarp]

Wow, she looks amazing! I feel for ya brother. An ex of mine spoke of BR surgery a few times and it just tore me up inside. I felt helpless, like I would take all the pain and give it to myself if she would only reconsider. Her breasts were considerably smaller than your girlfriend but gave her pain as well. I felt torn, between my love of her breasts and her being uncomfortable all the time. It really felt like a weight on my shoulders when she mentioned her pain. In the end, we split up and to my knowledge she hasn't had any surgery done. Like I said I feel you pain, but I don't have any words of wisdom for you, sadly. It really was something I was terrified of. It's one thing if she just feels like she gets too much attention or has trouble finding clothes. The pain thing makes it more real, and I felt a little selfish praying she didn't do it. Good luck to you man, I hope you find the answer! She looks astounding!

[Nimrod]

Is breast reduction inevitable?

The short answer is yes.

However it all depends on the woman. There are so many factors that go into this sort of decision that it boggles the mind. There are entire doctoral thesis works on this subject. In the end the best way to approach it, when it is not your body, is to realize that there is a size at which any woman will move to get reductive surgery.

What that tipping point is differs from woman to woman - but there is one for everybody.

A breast reduction has been suggested spontaneously to my wife from several people, a number of her doctors and even a few random people over the years. Luckily she has no physical discomfort and a healthy attitude. Possibly it was being large early in life that gave her the motivation to come to terms with her chest, or she was smart to find a good bra because she had to being outside the common sizes so quickly, or she was surrounded by friends that either did not make them into a issue for her or made her feel overly self-conscious, or whatever...

For all that I have read, talked with doctors, know about friends who went under the knife, it does come down to thirds.

1/3 of women are satisfied with the decision - it fixed the pain, allowed them to fit into that special dress or swim suite, made them feel good in some way or simply made life better.
1/3 of women have a few issues or exceptions - they took too much out, have some minor complications, are left with some scars, could / would have done something else but still had it done and are reconciled with it.
1/3 of women hate or regret the decision - they botch the work, they have medical complications, their lives did not get better, still have pain which had nothing to do with their breasts, or even the wickedly ironic "they grew back".


I say ironic as I know of a friend who went from a 38E down to a 36B and in about 3 years was back up to a 36F - she said many years later that she was too young and too quick to have the work done and now she was "big and bold" but looked like the Frankenstein monster.

[Pixeltiger]

My 2 cents. Chelsea's breasts weigh at least 50lbs but she has no back pain. She swears by Pilates. Seems like it might be worth a try.

[Andrew]

  She has pain that can cause tingling in her arm? That's usually a sign that a nerve is pinched and is radiating the pain down it's travel path. I recommend finding a good neurologist to source out the answer for the tingling, and I'm not talkin' brain surgery here, neurologists' deal with the nerves. Which is where a lot of pain can come from, or be traced back to. I would find it hard to believe her tingling arm(s) could be from having large breasts...  I'm not a doctor but I've got friends who are and this sounds like something I've heard them discuss about other paitients who don't have boobs, but have a radiating pain that can cause numbness in extremeties. It's almost always found to be a pinched nerve.
  That's my 4 cents (adjusted for inflation) Later--->Triumph

[Ooze3d]

Triumph is right. I'm studying Osteopathy and we're always looking for heavy tension on the back and sides of the neck when a patient comes to us with a numb or tingling arm. Normally it has something to do with rock hard tense muscles on the neck or even small vertebrae rotations pinching or trapping the nerve. Those problems normally go along with intermittent lower back pains, just as you said.

Sadly it seems your gf's pretty much convinced on the fact that the BR will eliminate her pain for good, but I'd suggest a visit to a good osteopathist before. Not only to avoid the surgery, but also to make sure it's not something else. If she has spine problems or heavy contractures on several muscles, the surgery won't ease the pain and she'll go through a long and tough procedure for nothing.

It's very important to look for an osteopathist. Physio-therapists care about muscles, chiropractors only try to fix the spine. Osteopathists consider the whole picture and fix the whole system.

[MasterDragonfly]

I'd also recommend osteopathic treatment. And acupuncture, although finding the right acupuncturist might not be trivial.

Your gf appears to have amazing trapezius muscles. Kudos to her for that. It does look like her bra is digging in somewhat, which is no doubt contributing to the issue. Any chance of adding pads which can distribute the force over a wider area?

About 10 years ago I used to chat online with one gal who she claimed had been a 32G in high school, the classical "tits on a stick". She complained of back pain, and eventually (presumably after HS) got a reduction. She wanted to be reduced to a C-cup, but the surgeon reduced her to a B-cup. Years later (when I was chatting with her), I asked her whether she still suffered from back pain. She said she did. I had met her (and others from the chat room) in person more than once, and this particular gal had a habitual slouch. My guess is that she developed the slouch back in HS when she wanted to maintain more of an 'invisible' profile, and hadn't broken free of that habit.

You need to show your gf before/after reduction pics. In my opinion, lift pics (without implants) and reduction pics, the breasts always look 'boxy' afterwards. Check out the Dors Feline thread on this site for a good example of what your gf could be getting herself into.

My wife was a 38D/DD when we first started chatting online. She had dreams of getting a lift, so I showed her before/after pics. She was horrified. She agreed that the lift pics which included implants looked quite a bit better. After we married, she did get 1000cc implants (with a lift - there was no getting around that due to the ptosis) and she ended up a 36G/H.

My wife has largely been pain-free in her back. The only back pain worth mentioning has been from doing a lot of work or time on the mat. One time she was pretty tired, and merely turned to get out of the car, when her back went out. Took her to the same acupuncturist we'd been to many times before; she was twisted and hobbling on her way in, and was vertical and walking comfortably on her way out after treatment. Another time (still related to the above) she turned the wrong way in the shower and aggravated it. This is something which worked itself out. I think this is when she decided to buy the TENS unit from Amazon (which was dirt cheap btw, but it packs a helluva punch - a combo TENS and something else... she thinks it was called EMT).

Okay, so add TENS unit to the list of things your gf could try.

[Relentless]

Go see a neurologist. This sounds like it could perhaps be something a bit more than breasts. It sounds like with every doctor she's been to, the overwhelming preconceived notion of the cause of her pain has been her breasts, and, as such, no one has even explored other possible causes. I would explore other avenues as to the cause of her pain. For example, what does she do for work? Does she use her arms and shoulders and back when she works? At all? One of my friends has back pain and, ironically enough, it's simply from walking her dog because her dog pulls hard on the leash and strains her back in just the right area to irritate it. The dog isn't even big, either.

I would get her health checked out fully and I would have her monitor what type of strenuous activity she does and when exactly the pain occurs. Also, at 5'6" and 175, she's still classified as overweight according to the BMI. I know she's lost 30 pounds and she still has the same breast size, but everyone loses weight differently. Some people don't lose a cup size when they lose weight, while others lose most of their breasts. Of importance, they sometimes start to lose breast size at different times during the weight loss. I would have her try to get down to a 23-25 BMI (this is considered the healthy level for women, not the low end of the "healthy" BMI range 19-22). The breasts might just be the last to go if she tries to lose 15 more pounds.

But get her health checked out fully. If there's still nothing wrong with her, you can try things like pilates and such. If nothing still works, I think she needs to deeply consider the benefits of a breast reduction surgery against the potential risks and disadvantages of a surgery.

I hope things go well for you. Either way, you are very lucky to have a woman who endured the pain for two years while thinking/knowing the cause of the pain was her breasts. That's true willpower right there.

[Insightful]

Thanks, all of you, for the insightful and sympathetic comments. I do appreciate your taking the time to respond.
 
Here’s an update (of sorts). Since we plan to attend a wedding out of the country in mid-December, I suggested she postpone the breast reduction surgery (scheduled for October 3rd). She wouldn’t hear of it. Why? She’s “psyched herself up” now and just wants to “get it over with.” Instead she asked me if I wanted to accompany her to the doc’s for a final pre-surgery briefing (just a few days before, so I wouldn’t “have time to be too upset”). I was somewhat surprised by this but pleased. (She’s never wanted me to accompany her to a doctor before.) Of course I said yes and began to compile a list of questions, not just about the surgery but also non-surgical alternatives (thanks in part to suggestions made here). I felt (and still feel) that I could ask questions and get my point across in the presence of a doc in a way that I could not in her company alone. (Why? She has pronounced me “breast preoccupied.” I think she wanted to say, “breast obsessed” but checked herself. And accordingly, does not think I can be objective about matters concerning her magnificent mammaries.)

Anyway she checked with the insurance company and was told she can postpone the surgery for no more than six months before her approval would expire. She then cancelled the surgery (as well as our appointment, explaining it was “no longer necessary” to see the doc so soon.

So now I hope to be able to have that appointment with the PS sometime in October or November, so I can present my concerns and non-surgical alternatives (i.e., your alternatives) and hopefully he’ll sanction some of them, which I believe is the only way my gf would consider them. Example, I suggest seeing an osteopath and/or a neurologist. I can just hear her response. “Nope. No need. At this point, I’m just going to do what my doctor says, plus my insurance won't cover a treatment my doctor hasn't recommended.” (And of course the expense is a valid point.)

At bit more about the psychological aspects. I mentioned my gal is a master minimizer and conservative by nature, She wears vests, spandex-type garments over her bra, etc. to make her boobs look smaller. How I wish I could get her to be more comfortable with her body! We took a short trip recently and I told her I wanted to take pictures if we went swimming. (We did not have time as it turned out, but we did discuss.) “No way,” she said. “Why not?” I asked. (I love to take pictures of her.) “Because you already have pictures of me in a bathing suit [yes, taken 6 years ago!] and besides, I don’t like the way I look in one.” (Sad. And mystifying. I told you she lost 30 pounds recently, and numerous workmates as well as friends and relatives who’ve seen pics on FB told her how great she looks.)

And what if her "girls" are still growing? She was a G or H cup when we met (presuming she was wearing the right bra – more or less – at the time) and now she’s an N cup. If she has the surgery, mightn’t she need it again years from now? Perhaps we should add an endocrinologist to the list to check hormone levels? Most distressing.

As a way of saying "thanks again," I attach another (face-obscured) photo.

[pedonbio]

Sad news.

I'm trying to think of a witty old saying about doctors, like, if you go to a podiatrist, you may discover that everything looks like a bunion. I agree with all the posts above. There is rarely a connection between large breasts and back pain, but too many women think there is and tell a doctor what they want to do, rather than learning about the possibilities. Back pain is complex and has many causes, as suggested above. It seems quite likely that if she has the surgery, she will still have the pain.

EDIT: Just a couple of thoughts: When I was practicing law many of my clients were women who worked in various areas of the sex industry. The topic of breast augmentation came up often, and I always recommended that they talk it over with a counselor or psychologist first, mostly to consider how it might change their lives versus what their real expectations were, and I think the same is good advice for anyone considering a reduction. For example, does she think it will make her look tall and thin? It is much more likely to make her look pear-shaped a/k/a "bottom heavy".   

[MasterDragonfly]

Insightful, remember to do some online searches of before/after breast reduction pics. If she asks you what the hell you're doing, tell her you're trying to educate yourself so that you can brace yourself for the inevitable. I'm sure if you dig really hard, you'll find some after pics which look somewhat reasonable. But you can expect a lot of them to look quite unnatural, even having a 'boxy' shape to them. The scars, those can usually be worked through with one treatment or another (there are options), but a formerly round breast which after surgery (and long after the healing period) looks to have a 'flat' bottom or just looking quirky, for want of a better word.

I should add that I have an acquaintance who is a retired doctor who had an interesting comment. He indicated that 90% of all back pain, regardless of treatment, will eventually resolve itself. The remaining 10% will never be resolved, regardless of treatment.

Btw, digging the hairstyle.

[Insightful]

Just checking in with an update after a (somewhat) long interlude. The out-of-the-country wedding has come and gone (and it was a great trip; I attach a pic) and my gf has just gotten the results of her annual mammagram (she's fine) so she sees the plastic surgeon this coming Tuesday; the 6-month insurance approval window runs out in March. I'm coming along, but at this late date I do not know what I can say or do to get her to reconsider. I do not expect too much sympathy from the PS (it's like asking a mechanic if you need a brake job, or a barber if you need a haircut) but I take comfort from the fact that he has done reconstructive surgery on women who've had breast cancer, so I believe he's something of an "artist." My gal's areola are quite large, symmetrical and well, in a word, magnificent, and she has Montgomery's Glands in abundance. (Curiously, her nipples are rather small, considering, and ultra sensitive to the touch. In fact, it's painful if I "go to town" too much on them. And after orgasm, the nipples are absolutely off-limits.) So the prospect of losing those magnificent mammaries, strictly from an aesthetic perspective, is quite sad (not to mention the possibility of nipple necropsy).

I will speak my peace -- I shall first indicate I do not wish my beloved to be in pain, but I want to be sure there's no alternative to surgery we've overlooked. I'll present my laundry list of alternatives (with thanks again to those of you who've made suggestions) --

Pilates
Yoga
Neurologist -- to look for a pinched nerve
Osteopathist -- to look at the whole picture, not only to avoid the surgery but to make sure it’s not something else
Acupuncturist -- although at the recommendation of a co-worker she had several (about 4) sessions in November-December, and it did not so much relieve her pain as make her very relaxed and put her to **82** . . .
Massage therapy
Weight loss -- altho she's lost 35 pounds with nary a change in her N cup size, her breasts just might reduce if she loses 10-15 more lbs to reach 23-25 BMI (sometimes breasts are “the last to go”)

We do have one last fling with my gal's "girls" -- a long weekend in Arizona in mid-Feb. With any luck the weather will be nice and we'll be able to use the hotel's heated pool and my better half will consent to some last bathing suit shots. (Sigh.)

Well, that's the whole sad tale. Again I shall try to keep in mind the comforting words posted here that my better half is indeed quite a special person to endure pain for 2 years before resorting to surgery. And she's made it clear she is in pain -- pain she says she's "used to" so she doesn't complain, except when I'll ask, "How's your back, shoulders today? And she'll tell me, "Not great," or "It doesn't hurt so much if you don't remind me." (Sigh.)

[MasterDragonfly]

Sorry to hear this.

Dumb question, but have you asked her outright what "next steps" she'll consider if after the reduction she continues to have back pain? I'm not talking a week after her surgery, as it'll take her body a bit to adjust. But say 6 months after the fact...?

[Insightful]

Appreciate the question, MD (and I wouldn't call it dumb) -- I will try to ask soon (maybe tomorrow, when we see the plastic surgeon together). I recall we touched upon the topic months ago when discussing locations of back pain. I think I asked "well, what if you still have lower back pain after the surgery?" And she replied something like, "well, at least I won't have the upper back pain." (She has had pain in both areas at times.)

[MasterDragonfly]

Insightful, check your PMs.