[Insightful]

We saw the plastic surgeon together and he explained what he intends to do (and drew pictures), something apparently he's done before for my gf but when I pulled out my list of alternatives he got a bit defensive and got my gf to agree he's not coerced her in any way, it's her decision, etc. He also mentioned his wife suffered from pain for 10 years (they met in high school) and she had BR surgery (altho he added of course he didn't do it) and she's very happy. When talking about the size of my gf's breasts, he used the word "disproportional" twice; I tried to disagree, but it didn't get me anywhere.

So the surgery date is set for the first week in March (the 6-month insurance window expires then) and there's not a thing I can do about it. She says my inability to accept what she wishes to do with her body is "very worrying" and perhaps I should seek counseling to deal with it. Gf says she can go for other alternative treatments and get respite temporarily but the fact is the weight of her breasts are a big (if not the only) factor in the fact that she has pain. And if the surgery does not relieve her pain? (I asked.) She replied she thinks it will -- at least in her shoulders and upper back -- and then she'll seek additional treatment for any remaining (e.g. lower back) pain.

[MasterDragonfly]

I suppose all that I can add here is:

a) I hope the surgical procedure goes smoothly and without complications
b) I hope after the healing is done that the results are quite aesthetically positive
c) I hope she gets the pain reduction she believes she will get
d) I hope your relationship with her after all this will still be smooth sailing

Btw, has she mentioned a target size at any point? Will she settle for a full D, or is she aggressively seeking something closer to the B end of the spectrum?

[pilotblaze]

Insightful,

Just wanted to say that I really feel for you - you are really between the rock and the hard place.

I hope that, as things settle to where they are going, that the end-all is not too painful for both of you.

-D'Artagnian

[TheZookie007]

Insightful,

Just wanted to say that I really feel for you - you are really between the rock and the hard place.

I hope that, as things settle to where they are going, that the end-all is not too painful for both of you.

-D'Artagnian

Hear, hear.

[Insightful]

Thanks, people. I am grateful for your heartfelt comments.

Just returned from the AZ trip; it was fun but there were some rough patches. Remember my faint hope of a last glimpse of my gf in a bathing suit pre-BR surgery? (Not to mention a last photo op.) Well, My gf "forgot" her bathing suit (but remembered to bring her gym clothes to exercise at the resort we stayed at) and a fellow guest was -- wouldn't you know it -- an orthopedic surgeon from Germany. I talked privately with him about her and he believed surgery was not the only option to relieve back pain, and in fact he operates only as a last resort, perferring to teach patients how to exercise, strengthen their back muscles and improve their posture. He said he'd be happy to discuss options with her. Another gal there found out about his profession and peppered him wth questions about her back (she has a herniated disk and fused vertebre). He was more than happy to "talk shop" (although his wife wasn't too thrilled after a while) but guess who refused to discuss the subject? Yep. I asked my partner, "How's your back?" "It's fine." "Well, wouldn't you like to discuss the pain you have sometimes?" "No. Can't we just discuss social things -- we're on vacation, you know!" Rationalizing here, the doc's English was fairly difficult to understand, but still . . .

Sigh. Well, here's a last, lingering shot I took in the Red Rock Mountains of Sedona. Alas, my gf's magnificent mountains will soon be but a shadow of their former glory . . . 

[bignatslover]

Thanks for the update.

Sounds like she knows what she wants and is a very headstrong person - good traits in a person, really, although in this case it will result in some lost hooter-age.  I leave you with some famous quotes:

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him.
Groucho Marx

Women don't want to hear what you think. Women want to hear what they think - in a deeper voice.
Bill Cosby

[thesarge]

I don't normally de-lurk, but I had to weigh in on this matter.

Insightful, I have read through this entire thread and one thing has become very clear.  Let me be blunt, your Girlfriend is a fool.  She has approached this entire problem from the standpoint that her breasts are too big, instead of approaching it from the correct standpoint.  That being, she has a back issue.

She is taking the majority, if not the entirety, of the medical advice about a back problem from her GP, and a Plastic Surgeon.  A Plastic Surgeon?
What the hell does a GP or a Plastic Surgeon know about back issues?  That's like getting plumbing advice from an Electrician.  Yes they are both in the Construction Industry, but that is where the similarities end.

She should have seen a Chiropractor, Neurologist, and an Orthopedic Surgeon before she ever set foot in a Plastic Surgeon's office.  Even if, in the end, the recommendation was to have a reduction, at least those specialists would also see to her follow up care and treatment, because I can guarantee, that just a BR will not immediately eliminate this issue.  Not with the horrible posture she shows in every one of those pictures.

The fact that she was **86** to even listen to free advice from an Orthopedic Surgeon just shows that this whole issue is less about back pain to her, and more about reducing the size of her breasts.  It sounds to me like she latched on to a recent back issue as a way to get, for free, a procedure she may have secretly wanted for a while.

I don’t think she is being very honest with you about her true motivations, and I don’t think she is being very honest with herself.  She is being very irresponsible with her own health.

Back pain is a serious issue, it can lead to nerve damage if not properly treated, and to just go blindly into a treatment that has been fluked upon by some doctor that is not a specialist in the field pertaining to the actual issue, is just asking for things to get worse.

Again, this whole issue is not about the size of her breasts.  It’s about the pain in her back.  The only person who has linked the two is a Doctor that is only qualified to reduce her breasts.  Not qualified to diagnose back issues.  And yet she gets upset with you for questioning this dynamic?

I hope she never breaks her arm at any time.  She may very well go to a Dentist for treatment and wind up getting a root canal.

[CyberPlainsDrifter]

Super de-lurk.

Insightful, get your GF to a Lady Cameo bra fitter for a "Style 708 Lace bra." As everyone will tell you, my wife of 24+ yrs is on par w/ your gf... a 36LL now. I've been around here since the beginning. She had exactly the same problems until we went to the Lady Cameo bra. Your GF's pain is exactly what she gets when the weight of her breasts is carried by the bra straps instead of the band. Even my wife's old Lady Cameo bras will give her pain like that when they've stretched out.

The bra is the problem, not her breasts. My wife goes braless as much as possible & when she does, she is fine. I've learned to massage those muscles in her neck, upper back, shoulders & upper chest & that makes a HUGE difference in the nerve pinch in her shoulders & arms.

She used to wear Goddess bras & her fingers would often go completely numb. We tried Pennyrich, Jeunique, & others before the Lady Cameo. Yes, they are expensive... probably $120+ each. Ladies with huge boobs tend to wears bras all the time thinking it'll help the problem when in fact it does just the opposite. Surgeons are all to happy to line their wallet at her expense. We've heard hundreds of times that my wife should get a reduction. But we've talked to way to many women who did & then still had back & shoulder issues (b/c they were still wearing an ill fitted bra even after surgery.) Yes, surgery *MAY* fix the problem, but it may not. Surgery should be a last resort. Give the Lady Cameos a try before she goes under the knife.

The Lady Cameo 708 is what a lot of people term a "granny bra", but it is far & away the best supporting bra on the market. You cannot walk into a store & buy one. You have to see a fitter & then try several before the proper size is attained. The initial measuring/fitting simply gets her into the ballpark. Last time my wife changed sizes it took 5 band/cup combos before she settled on the 36LL. They are stiff & pointy to begin with, but with washing get comfortable & less pointy. She needs to listen to the fitter as far as care & fitting. I help my wife put her bra on most days. It is the only way to get them on properly to get the wrinkles out & get her breasts into it properly, but what a difference it makes.

PM me & I'll see if I can help you find a fitter in your area. Ours moved to Arizona.

Super re-lurking.

[TheZookie007]

Thanks for your de-lurk, CyberPlainsDrifter, and glad to hear that your darling wife's boobage is still intact

Insightful, in my opinion, thesarge is correct. To a carpenter with a hammer, every problem is a nail. That's what's happening here, with your girlfriend getting advice on how to alleviate her back pain from a plastic surgeon. It may be the last-ditchiest of last-ditch efforts but I sincerely hope that your gf will at least try to get a proper bra fitting and bra from Lady Cameo.

I feel your pain, brother, I sincerely feel your pain.

[CyberPlainsDrifter]

We may be too late. Once these things get scheduled people feel like they have to go through with it even if they have reservations or change their minds. The problem with a reduction is it cannot be undone. Tattoos can be lasered off. Piercings left to heal. Even vasectomies can be reversed. Women who regret doing it rarely admit it & most never solve the pain they set out to fix. You have to really question them to get the real answers, but that is often the case.

In almost every case, the reduction is for vain, trivial reasons... so they can wear the "cute" clothes that are the style of the day.

And then there is never a mention of the botched reductions.

What gets me is the pressure to do it NOW b/c the insurance company set a deadline. Plastic surgeons love this because it doesn't give the patient time to back out & change their mind. Ever notice how pushy they are to get them in & get it done? You don't see that on other elective surgeries.

[steps off the giant soap box]

[Insightful]

Again, thank you all who've posted recently, for your heartfelt and sympathetic comments. (The Marx and Cosby quotes were brilliant and made me chuckle -- something I haven't done in a while regarding this blasted affair.)

Thesarge correctly asserts my gf has put too much stock in what the PS says. In fact, even on the subjects of size and looking at before/after pics, she refuses to look or discuss, saying she trusts the doc. (I am sure he is very good at what he does, but still . . .)

To try to make some sense of it all, it might be helpful to review my gf's progression to her current state, on the eve of her BR surgery scheduled for next week.

I do think there is a psychological component in play here (altho she says I'm the one with problems because of my inability to accept what she wants to do with her body; she says she thinks I think she's an idiot. Not true, but she doesn't quite believe me, no matter how much I say it's not true). She is indeed quite "headstrong." Why refuse to discuss matters with the orthopedic surgeon we met in AZ recently? Why say "maybe I would" when I asked her if she'd still want a breast reduction if she could eliminate her back and shoulder pain without surgery? However I do not think she's anxious to get "clothes that fit." She's never had a problem mixing and matching from different racks at clothing stores and of course she has to pay more for bras but I do not think that's a bother. (In fact in the summer I bought the last half-dozen she's wearing -- a small assortment of "Goddess" underwire and wire free bras in size 36N, and Elomi EL8030 "Caitlyn Side Support Underwire Bra" in size 36K which I was told is UK size equivalent to 36N.) She said recently she "does not like the way she looks" in a bathing suit, which is sorrowful because I think she looks fantastic. (How I wish I could've seen her wear one since she lost 35 pounds this past year.) And as CyberPlainsDrifter argues, perhaps the elusive right bra would be a big help -- if only there was a Lady Cameo fitter near where we live on the East Coast (altho at this late stage the chances of my getting my gal to go for a fitting are slim).

She NEVER spoke to me about teasing, tormenting, etc. that most girls w/her assets get growing up (although she was always top-heavy, she told me she really grew after her two pregnancies). When I asked her about taunts recently, she said there was a bit of that but she never let it bother her. (There's little in fact that "bothers" her. Not even her **112**.) She told me she did have a classmate who had a BR (probably soon after college) but it was something my gf says she never considered for herself because she did not have pain (or more recently she reflects perhaps she did have discomfort but she learned to "accept it" because she never figured to change her body; indeed I think she once mentioned near the beginning of our relationship, "You don't want to mess with what the Good Lord gave you.")

She's seen the same gynecologist annually for the past 12 years and always spoke highly of him. When we discussed her back pain when she really started to be bothered 2 years ago last October, she told me he had asked her from time to time (maybe at every annual check-up; I'm not sure), "Do you have back pain? Or do the weight of your breasts cause you pain?" Her answer -- until about 2 years ago -- was always no or not really. At about that time she consulted a gastroenterologist. She too said something like, "I'm surprised you don't have back pain considering the size of your breasts." And she saw an internal medicine specialist her gyno recommended, who also asked her about back pain and breast size. In one of our many discussions on the subject of surgery (probably when she told me, "You know, I think I am going to do this") my gf said something to the effect that, "with so many people asking me about it, and after I began to really feel pain, I began to really think abut the connection."

So I believe her gyno (or perhaps her internist) referred her initially to a physiatrist (a board certified physical medicine and rehabilitation physician specializing in interventional spine and sports medicine). He examined and prescribed back exercises (administered by a physio-therapist whom she saw 2-3x week for six weeks) and twice gave her fluoroscopic epidural steroid injections to alleviate pain (once after she lifted heavy luggage!). When I asked her why she discontinued the physical therapy she said her prescription was only for six weeks (i.e., insurance was paying for most of it) and she could do the exercises herself, which she said were not helping all that much anyway; she said she felt relief only temporarily. Recall she's a dedicated exerciser (wearing 2 bras -- an Enell size 5 plus one other older, stretched bra) -- 3x week in the gym plus zumba once or twice weekly.

Not sure who made the PS referral -- I guess either the gyno, internist or physiatrist. Also not sure if she was pursuing these methods (including the visit to the Jeunique bra-fitter in Oct. 2011, which was such a fiasco) to try to get real non-surgical relief or was just going through the motions to get insurance company approval for the surgery. Soon after her first PS visit over a year ago, the ins. co turned her request for approval down; the PS told her to lose weight (and possibly embark on the regimin I've indicated above), and to return in several months. She did, was told the insurance was now approved and good for six months, and you all know the rest. She also saw an acupuncturist several times (about 3-4) during this past summer because a co-worker raved about one (I suggested an acupuncturist and she **108**-pooed it); my gf says he did not so much relieve pain as relax her and put her to **82** . . .

Oh -- she has not mentioned a target size -- as I said she believes the PS will do right by her and leave her "proportional." Frustrating. So there you have it. I probably wrote too much, but I am in a despondent place . . . Thanks for listening.

[thesarge]

she says she thinks I think she's an idiot. Not true, but she doesn't quite believe me,

I wonder why?

Look, I'm going to be brutally frank here.  I mean no disrespect to your girl friend, but people being so ignorant and stubborn when it comes to matters of their own health, angers me to no end.

I have had people in my life who have had back issues.  Gone to the wrong Doctors, been given useless advice and treatment by them.  Then when they get to the right Doctors they are told that they now have permanent nerve damage because they waited so long before getting proper treatment.
One of those wrong Doctors that gave useless advice was a Plastic Surgeon.
Has she even had an MRI done?  How does she know she doesn’t have a herniated disc, which a reduction would not fix at all?

As to your statement I quoted.  Admit it.  You think she is being an idiot.  You may not say it to her, but everything you have written in this thread indicates you believe she is acting irrationally, and foolishly.

Now, be honest.  Do you think she is being an idiot because she is getting a reduction, or because she is not getting a proper diagnosis for her back issue?  If the answer is the reduction then I will stop right here, because then she should be mad at you.

If the answer is the lack of a proper diagnosis, then you need to be honest with her, and tell her.  It is tough love.

When she asks that question again ask her some questions.

“Have you seen a Chiropractor, a Neurologist, and an Orthopedic Surgeon?”
“No?”
“Then yes I think that you are being an idiot, because only an idiot would leave the diagnosis and treatment of a chronic back issue solely to a Plastic surgeon, and not a specialist like the other three.”

Tell her she owes it to herself to get the best medical advice and treatment options available, and that it can only come from the Doctors that specialize in back issues, like the ones above.  And if they determine that a BR is the best course of action then you will fully support her.  But they may tell her that a BR would not help, or that a BR is needed in conjunction with some other treatment, which a Plastic Surgeon wouldn’t know about.

Ask her what her primary goal and concern is, honestly.  Is it treating her back issue, or is it getting a breast reduction?  If it is the former, then she is going about it all wrong.  If it is the latter, then she should stop using her back as an excuse with you and just be honest.

[CyberPlainsDrifter]

I believe Sarge is absolutely correct. If she hasn't already consulted with back experts, she's completely shooting in the dark. She may lose her beautiful boobs, have to go through recovery & keep the back pain, too.

Not smart.

If an orthopedic surgeon has told her the boobs are the problem, well then...

[Insightful]

Points well taken, gentlemen.

I predict the conversation with my gf will go something like,

"Don't you think you should consult with an orthopedic surgeon? And by the way, why did you not talk with the surgeon we saw in AZ? He would've been happy to discuss your situation with you."

"Well, my GP referred me to a physiatrist, who treated me and as you will recall gave me spinal injections for pain (twice). I think it's his qualified opinion that there is a relationship between my pain and the weight of my breasts. If he thought it was necessary, he would have referred me to an orthopedic surgeon . . . as far as the doctor from Germany and his wife, I did not want to discuss my private, personal business with a stranger I just met, in a social setting, when I have professionals I trust whom I have already consulted."

I think she'll hang her hat on the physiatrist.  

[TheZookie007]

So she's going off the word of just one person. Before you get anyone cutting into your body, it behooves you to get more than just one opinion.