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Real

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #240 on: November 19, 2011, 09:39:33 AM »

Yes, but let's be fair about it... she didn't call anyone "soulless" nor "pervs" nor claim anyone was lost or empty.  Others have used us basically this same question and it seems that the words she never said that you put in her mouth are what have stuck with people.

Erica is actually one of the least self-righteous people I have ever met and I know this particular piece was written during an especially difficult time in her life and we all have said or written things in the heat of the moment that don't always necessarily reflect our true feelings, so let's cut her a bit of slack, and not judge her.  Further to that, it's also really not a judgmental piece at all -- at least not about others.  It's more a reflection on how she feels about life and herself, not other people, so to try to twist that into an "I'm better than you" rant is really not accurate or fair to her.

What is accurate, however, are her thoughts about our overall industry and what happens (for the most part) to the women in it.

Well I guess you and I take hokey caps lock laced religious 'This void in your life and heart. You seek pornography to fill it....it's only a bandage.' rants differently than I do.  But then again I probably bristle at cult indoctrination more than most people so I wanted to post her own words so people could interpret it as they want.
My current avatar is: Manda Dawn

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DJPFC

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #241 on: November 19, 2011, 10:17:01 AM »
Erica isn't modeling again and has no plans to return. I'm not sure where that notion came from but it's not true. I keep in touch with her because she is my friend not because she is making a comeback.

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YS

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #242 on: November 19, 2011, 11:03:31 AM »
Soulless pervs?
I'd say it's accurate. I mean, the noun perv is fairly accurate to people who regularly read BE fiction..

Souls, free will.. those are just trite illusions the more self-deluded soulless organic machines made up to comfort themselves...  ;)

I think the more naturally occuring illusions, like 'love*' are better at filling voids in metaphorical hearts.

*what is love but your genes manipulating you to make sure you procreate and then see to the rest?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 11:05:41 AM by YS »

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Pipatel

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #243 on: November 19, 2011, 12:57:08 PM »
What a bunch of whiny, self-righteous bull. Reads almost like a copy of Crissy Moran's big screw you letter to her fans and the industry that made her lots of money when she quit the biz.

Why do these girls think they have it so damn hard in their lives? How about a reality check? If I could make 500 bucks an hour grinding my ass on a pole or in front of a webcam I certainly wouldn't complain but feel damned lucky. It's as easy and dumb a money-making machine as there is. There is no other (legal) job where you can make a six figure income with no education and professional experience. The vast majority of us here (and the vast majority of their fans) have to slave away in meaningless, repetitive blue collar and white collar jobs for a tiny fraction of the buckets of dollars these girls receive just to get naked. It's not like you need an education and a $100k master's degree to do that and they can still pull in a mid-level management salary just by showing their bits. They're the ones who have it easy, easier than almost anyone else in this economy, because their looks virtually give them a free ride to go anywhere and do anything they want. Heck, even if they don't want to work at all, a girl with such extraordinary looks could always bag some rich guy and be set for life.

If they squander all of their earnings on shoes, booze, drugs and abusive, mooching boyfriends then that's their own fault, certainly not their fans' or the industries'. How about taking responsibility for your own choices instead of blaming your problems on some ominous godlessness and the "pervs" that paid for your rent, car and clothes over the last couple of years? In the end it's a business and you have to be smart about it, like you have to do in any other business. Those girls that are smart can make a boatload of money in just a few years and do what they want with the rest of their lives - an opportunity that most of us will never ever get in life. Girls like Jenna Jameson and Sasha Grey come to mind here, these ladies don't just look good, they're also very intelligent and business savvy. I don't remember Sasha being that condescending towards her fans. She went in it for the money, made some great cash during the just three years she did porn, made some connections in the entertainment business and then moved on to bigger and better things, no regrets. That's a smart, professional woman in my book and it's women like that who go far, whether in the sex industry or any other profession.

What I partly agree on with Erica is that some guys can be very obsessive about porn and that definitely isn't healthy. But that kind of addictive behavior is only common among a small minority of porn consumers. Every man consumes porn and for the vast majority of us it's a let's download some shit for free, shoot a load and be done with it for the day kind of a thing that we spend  maybe 15 minutes on. It's as mundane as taking your dump of the day and there's not always a willing lady around to schlob your knob. Hence why man came up with pornography ever since he put charcoal on cave walls. Porn is not meant to be meaningful or intimate, it's no substitute for a woman but simply a tool to take care of our sex drive when there's no opportunity to do it with a woman. That is your average porn consumer.

Then there are guys that become fans, buy web site subscriptions and write the girls emails (or the webmaster pretending to be the girl, as in one well known case). And among that minority an even smaller minority will become fanatics and obsess about girls they will never meet and start collecting gigabyte after gigabyte of content. For these guys a girl like Erica will indeed become a substitute for a real woman in their everyday life and a projection of their own loneliness. However that percentage of addicts is the same in basically any area, whether it's porn, booze, gambling, drugs or video games. Addictive behavior is not exclusive to porn. Naturally those at the receiving end (like Erica) see a lot more of those addicts, the same as a black jack dealer sees more gambling addicts than your average Joe Shmoe. They just shouldn't confuse that narrow peer group with reality and with the average man.

As for religion, I'll just leave it to Robert A. Heinlein to express what I think about this redundant "God fills my hole" mantra - which by the way always sounds kind of pervy itsself (usually because the invisible old guy in the sky fills the void of an absentee dad/male role model - psychology 101).

"A religion is sometimes a source of happiness, and I would not deprive anyone of happiness. But it is a comfort appropriate for the weak, not for the strong."

Just my two cents. Hope I didn't sound too much like a dick here, but religionists annoy me since they cause far more problems than they believe they're solving with their little crusades.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 01:01:13 PM by Pipatel »

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pedonbio

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #244 on: November 19, 2011, 01:54:33 PM »

What is accurate, however, are her thoughts about our overall industry and what happens (for the most part) to the women in it.

If that is the case, things have changed since I was in the business, because when I was there the vast majority of women did a shoot or two or three, tired of the business and left to become waitresses, bank tellers, singers, or teachers.
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.

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Pipatel

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #245 on: November 19, 2011, 06:19:24 PM »
If that is the case, things have changed since I was in the business, because when I was there the vast majority of women did a shoot or two or three, tired of the business and left to become waitresses, bank tellers, singers, or teachers.

Very few (can) stick around for longer than two or three years, at least in porn. At some point producers stop hiring them due to lack of novelty value, only girls that make a name for themselves escape that expiration date.

Erica never did porn as I recall and had a fairly long run in softcore modeling. Imo one of the ~five best looking glam/softcore models of the last decade (with V. Zemanova being another one).

Luckily DJPFC still has a bunch of nudie sets sitting on his HDD to keep Erica's fans happy for a couple more years.

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Palomine

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #246 on: November 19, 2011, 06:23:23 PM »
What a bunch of whiny, self-righteous bull. Reads almost like a copy of Crissy Moran's big screw you letter to her fans and the industry that made her lots of money when she quit the biz.

Why do these girls think they have it so damn hard in their lives? How about a reality check? If I could make 500 bucks an hour grinding my ass on a pole or in front of a webcam I certainly wouldn't complain but feel damned lucky. It's as easy and dumb a money-making machine as there is. There is no other (legal) job where you can make a six figure income with no education and professional experience. The vast majority of us here (and the vast majority of their fans) have to slave away in meaningless, repetitive blue collar and white collar jobs for a tiny fraction of the buckets of dollars these girls receive just to get naked. It's not like you need an education and a $100k master's degree to do that and they can still pull in a mid-level management salary just by showing their bits. They're the ones who have it easy, easier than almost anyone else in this economy, because their looks virtually give them a free ride to go anywhere and do anything they want. Heck, even if they don't want to work at all, a girl with such extraordinary looks could always bag some rich guy and be set for life.

If they squander all of their earnings on shoes, booze, drugs and abusive, mooching boyfriends then that's their own fault, certainly not their fans' or the industries'. How about taking responsibility for your own choices instead of blaming your problems on some ominous godlessness and the "pervs" that paid for your rent, car and clothes over the last couple of years? In the end it's a business and you have to be smart about it, like you have to do in any other business. Those girls that are smart can make a boatload of money in just a few years and do what they want with the rest of their lives - an opportunity that most of us will never ever get in life. Girls like Jenna Jameson and Sasha Grey come to mind here, these ladies don't just look good, they're also very intelligent and business savvy. I don't remember Sasha being that condescending towards her fans. She went in it for the money, made some great cash during the just three years she did porn, made some connections in the entertainment business and then moved on to bigger and better things, no regrets. That's a smart, professional woman in my book and it's women like that who go far, whether in the sex industry or any other profession.

What I partly agree on with Erica is that some guys can be very obsessive about porn and that definitely isn't healthy. But that kind of addictive behavior is only common among a small minority of porn consumers. Every man consumes porn and for the vast majority of us it's a let's download some shit for free, shoot a load and be done with it for the day kind of a thing that we spend  maybe 15 minutes on. It's as mundane as taking your dump of the day and there's not always a willing lady around to schlob your knob. Hence why man came up with pornography ever since he put charcoal on cave walls. Porn is not meant to be meaningful or intimate, it's no substitute for a woman but simply a tool to take care of our sex drive when there's no opportunity to do it with a woman. That is your average porn consumer.

Then there are guys that become fans, buy web site subscriptions and write the girls emails (or the webmaster pretending to be the girl, as in one well known case). And among that minority an even smaller minority will become fanatics and obsess about girls they will never meet and start collecting gigabyte after gigabyte of content. For these guys a girl like Erica will indeed become a substitute for a real woman in their everyday life and a projection of their own loneliness. However that percentage of addicts is the same in basically any area, whether it's porn, booze, gambling, drugs or video games. Addictive behavior is not exclusive to porn. Naturally those at the receiving end (like Erica) see a lot more of those addicts, the same as a black jack dealer sees more gambling addicts than your average Joe Shmoe. They just shouldn't confuse that narrow peer group with reality and with the average man.

As for religion, I'll just leave it to Robert A. Heinlein to express what I think about this redundant "God fills my hole" mantra - which by the way always sounds kind of pervy itsself (usually because the invisible old guy in the sky fills the void of an absentee dad/male role model - psychology 101).

"A religion is sometimes a source of happiness, and I would not deprive anyone of happiness. But it is a comfort appropriate for the weak, not for the strong."

Just my two cents. Hope I didn't sound too much like a dick here, but religionists annoy me since they cause far more problems than they believe they're solving with their little crusades.

I have to quote this post of Pipatel's since it is, once again, a great example of the kind of intelligent, realistic, common-sensical thinking that I'd love to see more of outside of our little corner of the internet. A great, well-reasoned expression of the situation IMO. :)

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brakblake

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #247 on: November 20, 2011, 01:36:29 AM »
I have to quote this post of Pipatel's since it is, once again, a great example of the kind of intelligent, realistic, common-sensical thinking that I'd love to see more of outside of our little corner of the internet. A great, well-reasoned expression of the situation IMO. :)

I could not agree with that sentiment more. Very well thought out and put together response.
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Major Zoidberg/Futurama Nerd.

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DJPFC

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #248 on: November 20, 2011, 09:23:21 AM »
I agree that it is well written and I also agree with many of the points he made. However, the one thing I do not agree on is his contention about how girls make a "boatload" of money doing this. I cannot tell you how many fans we have encountered or spoken to over the years who think a model is rich simply because she gets naked. I have said this before and I will say it again: these women do not make anywhere near what fans think they do. Not even close.
Check out our brand new, fully re-booted mega-site, PinupFiles/PinupGlam!  Featuring the best and hottest big boobed pinup gals on the web!



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Pipatel

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #249 on: November 20, 2011, 10:33:40 AM »
I agree that it is well written and I also agree with many of the points he made. However, the one thing I do not agree on is his contention about how girls make a "boatload" of money doing this. I cannot tell you how many fans we have encountered or spoken to over the years who think a model is rich simply because she gets naked. I have said this before and I will say it again: these women do not make anywhere near what fans think they do. Not even close.

I was not talking about mere modeling (which is becoming less and less profitable, everyone is a "model" these days), but about the possibility to combine it with dancing, webcamming or escorting, custom paid work (fetish) etc. That is where the real money is. A girl with her looks can make three grand a night dancing in an upscale club in a major city (L.A. / Vegas / NYC etc.) that attracts lots of high rollers and players. The Rhino is basically a playground for cybergirls. These girls don't pay for their nice appartment with the occasional $500 / day fee they get from Playboy (and I doubt you or one of the other multiple-model web outlets like Twistys & Co pay more than Playboy). As for dancing, that's 250 grand a year with two day's work per week. There is no blue collar / white collar job where you can make $500 an hour without an education and a boatload of professional experience. You'd be lucky to get more than minimum wage these days. Of course not every woman is comfortable with dancing or webcamming and maximizing the economic potential of her looks - just because she gets naked in front of the camera of an industry professional. I am talking about a potential here that most of us will never ever have.

As for Erica, from what I have heard her reformed life plan has worked out for her, so all is good. I still don't like the judgmental attitude.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 10:40:44 AM by Pipatel »

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flowers65

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #250 on: November 20, 2011, 10:51:18 AM »
I agree that it is well written and I also agree with many of the points he made. However, the one thing I do not agree on is his contention about how girls make a "boatload" of money doing this. I cannot tell you how many fans we have encountered or spoken to over the years who think a model is rich simply because she gets naked. I have said this before and I will say it again: these women do not make anywhere near what fans think they do. Not even close.
No doubts we should be glad she found something to believe in. But what comes out from her speech is that she has the same distorted idea about how their fans live their lifes.
Anyway, she deserves our best wishes for her new life.
Flower.
Lisa & Milena: an erotic novel about big breasted girls
http://www.lisaandmilena.blogspot.com

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DJPFC

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #251 on: November 20, 2011, 01:36:01 PM »
I was not talking about mere modeling (which is becoming less and less profitable, everyone is a "model" these days), but about the possibility to combine it with dancing, webcamming or escorting, custom paid work (fetish) etc. That is where the real money is. A girl with her looks can make three grand a night dancing in an upscale club in a major city (L.A. / Vegas / NYC etc.) that attracts lots of high rollers and players. The Rhino is basically a playground for cybergirls. These girls don't pay for their nice appartment with the occasional $500 / day fee they get from Playboy (and I doubt you or one of the other multiple-model web outlets like Twistys & Co pay more than Playboy). As for dancing, that's 250 grand a year with two day's work per week. There is no blue collar / white collar job where you can make $500 an hour without an education and a boatload of professional experience. You'd be lucky to get more than minimum wage these days. Of course not every woman is comfortable with dancing or webcamming and maximizing the economic potential of her looks - just because she gets naked in front of the camera of an industry professional. I am talking about a potential here that most of us will never ever have.

As for Erica, from what I have heard her reformed life plan has worked out for her, so all is good. I still don't like the judgmental attitude.

I would argue that there's also no blue collar/white collar job that is quite as soul-destroying as a woman having to do sexual favors for strangers for money.  And I think that was Erica's overall point.

If you want to focus solely on the financial aspect of this, then you are correct, but the other aspects of it cannot be realistically ignored in actual reality.  Those jobs may pay well financially, but they also exact a serious price in other areas.  And the women who tend to do those jobs are able to do them for a reason and it usually has something to do with something pretty serious happening at some point in their younger lives. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 01:39:24 PM by DJPFC »
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TheZookie007

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #252 on: November 20, 2011, 02:24:14 PM »
Quote
I being on the other side of these pictures you don't see the pain these girls are in. The struggle....the drugs that they take so they can get themselves through these sets. Sometimes it's just a show....you pretend to be someone else..become someone you never thought you could be...and the hole gets deeper.

Reading these words of Erica's, my mind immediately went to Dors Feline (not saying or implying that she ever did drugs because I have no idea whether she did or not)...sigh.

AOC, HC, TW, BO, KH: FU. FUATH. 100x.

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ayrton

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #253 on: November 21, 2011, 08:16:31 AM »
Why would you have to take drugs to get through a photo shoot?   I can see fashion models using coke to keep thin,   but not to get through a shoot.   Is posing that strenuous?   Come on.  Or are the drugs needed to ignore that fact that she is titillating us so we can masturbate and she isn't comfortable with that.  She knows damn well that is what she is doing and no amount of drugs could change that. 

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Pipatel

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Re: Erica Campbell MERGED
« Reply #254 on: November 21, 2011, 03:32:18 PM »
I would argue that there's also no blue collar/white collar job that is quite as soul-destroying as a woman having to do sexual favors for strangers for money.  And I think that was Erica's overall point.

If you want to focus solely on the financial aspect of this, then you are correct, but the other aspects of it cannot be realistically ignored in actual reality.  Those jobs may pay well financially, but they also exact a serious price in other areas.  And the women who tend to do those jobs are able to do them for a reason and it usually has something to do with something pretty serious happening at some point in their younger lives.  

They get objectified for money, but that much is true for fashion models, too. It's a cutthroat business (particularly porn, which Erica didn't do), but so are lots of other businesses and professions. Look at all the vets coming home with PTSD or limbs missing, look at the really dangerous jobs (highway construction work, mining, steel plants etc.) or the blood and guts jobs like paramedics, all done exclusively or almost exclusively by the male gender for a fraction of what those girls get paid. Talk about soul-destroying for a bargain.

You are right on your money that the number of women with serious mental issues pretty much increases the more hardcore they go in the industry. Histories of abusive or deadbeat dads and boyfriends become far more common than with the average female pencil pusher.

Be that as it may, you seem to have no problem to profit off these girls regardless of their issues. Even with Erica who you claim to be a personal friend and who clearly has left this life behind and moved on to be a private, family woman, you still release "new" content (which means continued spotlight on her old life) and probably will continue to do so for years because her naked tits and ass pay for your bills. You're not Helmut Newton and the pictures you take won't hang in the MoMA, you create content for guys to wank off to. Nothing more and nothing less. It's may not be porn, because some guys don't like the hardcore stuff and rather wank off to softcore t&a videos, but the principle and business model behind it is not that much different from your average bangbros and their subscribers.

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm just realistic. Most men objectify women sexually to some degree and other men (such as you and I and the owner of the BEA) make money off it. It would be hypocritical to blame an industry that pays our bills, the same as it was hypocritical and self-righteous of Erica to blame her fans (some of whom, in their own strange way, probably genuinely cared about her) for her own choices.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 03:37:25 PM by Pipatel »