[Rojo]

I haven't made up my mind but that won't stop me from offering this:

Tomoe's assertion is that it's only sex negativity that hurts women in the biz.  But without sex negativity would there be a biz? IOW, would an open, unrepressed society ever turn to pornograpny and **31**? I'll cop to the fact that my own internet-driven prurience isn't the healthiest approach to sex.

I'll also add that not only does sex negativity create the conditions for the business, it also keeps the number of vendors low and, thus the dollar rewards pretty high for those that do sell their body.   If every chick in the world plunged into porn or prosititution the price would plummet. 

Digging a little deeper, I think most human societies harbor some leeriness about capitalism. For instance we hold on to monogamy because we understand that without it rich men would have many wives and poor men would have few -- and that would be an unstable society.  This same leeriness is why **31**/pornograpny still holds some stigma.  We don't want amoral market forces ruling this area of our lives.

[luvdemwhoppers]

what eva she say don't make no never mind
Wise man say "you go you're way, I'll go mine"
i think case closed

[Pipatel]

I wasn't being "white knight" to anyone... just stating a well-known fact that most people (not just women... men, too) who do sex work do so because they have had some serious abuse in their past that causes a significant disconnect that allows them to do such work in the first place.  That is what Erica was saying in her farewell letter and I was saying I agree with her, because I have seen it first hand with others.

If Tomoe wants to insist that it's wonderful work and that regular jobs are far worse, and boast about how fantastic it was while she was doing it and how many houses it allowed her to buy, that's certainly her right and her perspective and it's certainly valid in that regard, but I know for sure that most women would heartily disagree with her to the point of being offended by her assertion.  And it also doesn't change the inscrutable fact above, i.e. that most people who do sex work have been abused in their pasts and those who grow up having normal, well-adjusted childhoods generally do not do sex work.

The question is if that "well known fact" is actually supported by studies and statistics. I'm virtually certain that several studies must exist regarding this issue - alas I'm too lazy to dig them up. Personal experiences are valuable but don't replace quantifiable data. It's like a prognosis on who'll win the Presidency by asking your ten friends if they are going to vote for Obama or the Gin-grinch.

Tomoe does have a point when she explains that the negative stigma attached to sexuality particularly in a very puritan country like the United States is strongly connected to how those that do sex work feel about themselves. Fifty years ago women who had kids out of wedlock felt pretty bad about themselves too, not because there was anything bad about being a single mom per se, but because of the social stigma attached to it, the ridicule and harrassment faced by their peers. Or if you want a more recent example, look at how many gays go through phases of self loathing, hatred and depression, again not because there's anything inherently wrong with them but due to a society that is intolerant and hypocritical.

**31** has existed since the dawn of civilization and will continue to exist, whether it's legal (like in my country, they even get taxed and have health insurance) or illegal (like in the US). That's just supply and demand and prostitutes meet that demand.

[DJPFC]

The question is if that "well known fact" is actually supported by studies and statistics. I'm virtually certain that several studies must exist regarding this issue - alas I'm too lazy to dig them up. Personal experiences are valuable but don't replace quantifiable data. It's like a prognosis on who'll win the Presidency by asking your ten friends if they are going to vote for Obama or the Gin-grinch.

Tomoe does have a point when she explains that the negative stigma attached to sexuality particularly in a very puritan country like the United States is strongly connected to how those that do sex work feel about themselves. Fifty years ago women who had kids out of wedlock felt pretty bad about themselves too, not because there was anything bad about being a single mom per se, but because of the social stigma attached to it, the ridicule and harrassment faced by their peers. Or if you want a more recent example, look at how many gays go through phases of self loathing, hatred and depression, again not because there's anything inherently wrong with them but due to a society that is intolerant and hypocritical.

**31** has existed since the dawn of civilization and will continue to exist, whether it's legal (like in my country, they even get taxed and have health insurance) or illegal (like in the US). That's just supply and demand and prostitutes meet that demand.

I don't have them at my fingertips, but it has been demonstrated by more than enough statistical data that people who do sex work tend to have been sexually abused in their past.  It's not a debatable item.

And once again, no one is debating the economics of it... we all know **31** and porn exists and will continue to exist because of market demand.  The thing Erica was saying (and what I have been saying over and over and over now) is that it is generally not healthy, either mentally or physically, for individuals to engage in such activity.  Yes, one can make good money doing it, but focusing solely on the economics of it is short-sighted because it ignores the costs/price paid in other areas.

I'm done talking about this.  I've repeated myself way too much.  Enough already.

[Pipatel]

I don't have them at my fingertips, but it has been demonstrated by more than enough statistical data that people who do sex work tend to have been sexually abused in their past.  It's not a debatable item.

And once again, no one is debating the economics of it... we all know **31** and porn exists and will continue to exist because of market demand.  The thing Erica was saying (and what I have been saying over and over and over now) is that it is generally not healthy, either mentally or physically, for individuals to engage in such activity.  Yes, one can make good money doing it, but focusing solely on the economics of it is short-sighted because it ignores the costs/price paid in other areas.

I'm done talking about this.  I've repeated myself way too much.  Enough already.

Well, you run a nude model site focused on big tits, I make money off promoting sites like yours, we're not exactly uninvolved in the game.

[3deroticer]

My sister showed me an article about the business of Porn. The study was a attempt to find out how to attract both sex to watching porn together and so the women complain that the men in porn were boring and souless with no personality. So they started to test them on Porn where the guy was charming and with more personality. But the guys could no longer enjoy that part of the porn because they started to like the guy and could no longer feel okay on looking at them or their women. So the bad news for the industry that it may be harder to make porn where both sex could enjoy watching together. However I still have high hopes for Anime porn!

[Tomoe_Gozen]

Hmmm... I've been not-here for quite awhile, sorry. It appears there is a lot here to respond to... so I'll just dive right in, shall I?

I understand fairly well and you should notice that this person didn't show up in the thread until our own discussion "among the guys" was already done...Women can be jackasses, too.

*shrug* Everyone on the internet is a jackass. I was actually guessing your age at around 15, not 12 - you being a non-native English speaker makes sense too, so I do apologize for the ad hominem.  It's just... I love masturbation. I love porn. I love sex. And I am *so* sick of the sex-negativity permeating this culture! Your post pretty much hit all of my buttons - likening masturbation to elimination, insinuating that women who do sex work ought to be ashamed, and saying that porn is only for those men who can't get a woman? You bet I came out swinging. Now tell me that masturbation is sexy, prostitutes ought to be thanked for the job they do, and that married men who also consume porn are studs... then we can bray off into the sunset together, equally yoked in our jackassery.

... most people will have 100x more respect for someone who gets down in the trenches and works for what they have as opposed to those who choose to do otherwise...I appreciate that you've had experience in the field, and if you feel that your experience was a positive one that ended amicably, then congratulations. However, unlike what you claim, you're in a very small minority of people, so if that was indeed your experience, you either live in a bubble, or are completely dilusional. Through my work, I have regular interactions with sex trade workers in all sorts of settings, and I'm sorry, but the notion that most of them conduct their business, then head back to suburban life on lollipop lane simply isn't true. Period. I do agree that there are those out there who do, but even in those cases, those people are in one way or another, simply a different breed. And they are most definitely not my neighbor, my sister, my college friends, or my yoga instructor. But I suppose everyone has their own view on what normal is.

Shocking as it may be, I actually don't care about whether "most people" respect me. "Most people" are idiotic sheep and I wear their disdain as a badge of honor. Yes, I did have a mostly positive experience which ended amicably, but I'm hardly exceptional. Most of the women I met while doing this line of work were "independent service providers" (aka "escorts"), and they were very mundane women indeed. Mothers, sisters, waitresses, nannies... the majority of them were only contactable online, would rarely meet anywhere other than their place ("in-call only"), got out of the biz within 2-5 years - and simply carried on with their lives. No, most of them did not go to "Lollipop Lane" or whatever - a house was my goal. Most of them had their own goals - things like paying down loans, supporting their kids, buying a decent car, paying off medical bills, one lady I knew used most of her money hiring a lawyer... You may not like this, but prostitutes are not "a different breed". We're average women, and we're all around you.

I wasn't being "white knight"... just stating a well-known fact that most people who do sex work do so because they have had some serious abuse in their past that causes a significant disconnect... That is what Erica was saying in her farewell letter and I was saying I agree with her, because I have seen it first hand with others... If Tomoe wants to insist that it's wonderful work and that regular jobs are far worse, and boast about how fantastic it was while she was doing it and how many houses it allowed her to buy, that's certainly her right... but I know for sure that most women would heartily disagree with her to the point of being offended... those who grow up having normal, well-adjusted childhoods generally do not do sex work.

I never described sex work as "wonderful" "fantastic" or "better than normal jobs" (whatever those are) - just better than every minimum wage job I've ever held. Bragging about buying multiple houses? No. I mentioned that I bought A SINGULAR house - (then Munch ribbed me about losing it - but he knows me so it's okay). Sure, most women would disagree with me - but most women are sex negative as the rest of the culture. They've been told that porn is oppressive, prostitutes are dirty, and the only acceptable use of their sexuality is as leverage over their boyfriends / husbands.  They tend to be dismissive of me when they think I'm talking out my ass, then extremely uncomfortable when they find out I was a sex worker. Not offended - more like "deer in headlights".

I've likely read the same studies you have. The "significant disconnect" to which you refer has a name - compartmentalization - and it's not *all* bad. People who have suffered trauma (it's not just sexual abuse, btw) in the past have an easier time dealing with trauma in the present. I agree with you that people who grow up with "Leave It To Beaver" childhoods generally can't do sex work very long - but it isn't because they are less damaged, more stable, or any saner than the sex workers. They simply lack years of experience in delaying the processing of strong emotions - they haven't got the skills. Like I said, there is correlation between past abuse and the ability to maintain as a sex worker - but correlation is not causation. I know that it's easier to pass judgement on a prostitute, tell yourself that it's the fault of her upbringing and it could *never* be somebody you know... but seriously, we're not that exotic.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that compartmentalization is entirely *healthy* either. It literally feels like pushing things down - and if you do it for too long, or you don't ever deal with the emotional stuff welling back up... I've seen a few girls go down that road - and it's not pretty. Drug addictions, other numbing behaviors, self-harm, letting themselves become used to lavish lifestyles and telling themselves they're trapped... these are all real outcomes for some girls. Those girls' outcomes are well-documented, but I'm telling you that in my experience they are *not* in the majority. Think about this: how prevalent would you believe ch1ld **66** to be if all you had to judge by were cable news? The vast majority of studies focus on the segments of the sex worker population most likely to promote society's view of prostitutes as damaged, shameful, powerless, pitiable outsiders... which is such bullshit! There is a lot of propaganda on this subject... but read Margo St. James or Annie Sprinkle and check out COYOTE (Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics) if you are interested in a different point of view.

Tomoe's assertion is that it's only sex negativity that hurts women in the biz.  But without sex negativity would there be a biz?... Digging a little deeper, I think most human societies harbor some leeriness about capitalism. For instance we hold on to monogamy because we understand that without it rich men would have many wives and poor men would have few -- and that would be an unstable society.  This same leeriness is why **31**/pornograpny still holds some stigma.  We don't want amoral market forces ruling this area of our lives.

Oooh... I'm going to enjoy responding to this one. It's not *only* sex negativity that hurts women in the biz (plenty of hazards to go around) but I take your meaning. There is a group called COYOTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COYOTE) which pushes for decriminalization (rather than legalization) of **31** for exactly this reason. Legalization would increase supply and lower prices, whereas decriminalization would simply make it easier to do business. Personally, I disagree with them on this front - I would like to see us return to a time when women could be worshiped for doing such a job, like the temple prostitutes of old. I think most modern societies hold such strongly sex negative views because they are patriarchal - all gods, no goddesses. I believe if we had the Divine Feminine in our culture - the concept of a sexual goddess - things would be very different. If you look back to Greek and Roman times they had coins printed with a value on one side, and the depiction of a sex act on the other. There is plenty of public ancient art in India, China, Greece, etc. to support the idea that sex negativity is a fairly recent development. If poor men have few wives - but **31** isn't stigmatized - I doubt you'd have an unstable society. It is only when you have large groups of sexually frustrated men that you get societal increases in violence, r4pe, and other sexual acting out (Catholic priests, anyone?). In general, I've noticed that sexually fulfilled men are a pretty amiable lot.

Well... I think that covered the majority of the comments involving me...

Tomoe "we now return you to your regularly scheduled boobies, already in progress" Gozen

[DJPFC]

Hmmm... I've been not-here for quite awhile, sorry. It appears there is a lot here to respond to... so I'll just dive right in, shall I?

*shrug* Everyone on the internet is a jackass. I was actually guessing your age at around 15, not 12 - you being a non-native English speaker makes sense too, so I do apologize for the ad hominem.  It's just... I love masturbation. I love porn. I love sex. And I am *so* sick of the sex-negativity permeating this culture! Your post pretty much hit all of my buttons - likening masturbation to elimination, insinuating that women who do sex work ought to be ashamed, and saying that porn is only for those men who can't get a woman? You bet I came out swinging. Now tell me that masturbation is sexy, prostitutes ought to be thanked for the job they do, and that married men who also consume porn are studs... then we can bray off into the sunset together, equally yoked in our jackassery.

Shocking as it may be, I actually don't care about whether "most people" respect me. "Most people" are idiotic sheep and I wear their disdain as a badge of honor. Yes, I did have a mostly positive experience which ended amicably, but I'm hardly exceptional. Most of the women I met while doing this line of work were "independent service providers" (aka "escorts"), and they were very mundane women indeed. Mothers, sisters, waitresses, nannies... the majority of them were only contactable online, would rarely meet anywhere other than their place ("in-call only"), got out of the biz within 2-5 years - and simply carried on with their lives. No, most of them did not go to "Lollipop Lane" or whatever - a house was my goal. Most of them had their own goals - things like paying down loans, supporting their kids, buying a decent car, paying off medical bills, one lady I knew used most of her money hiring a lawyer... You may not like this, but prostitutes are not "a different breed". We're average women, and we're all around you.

I never described sex work as "wonderful" "fantastic" or "better than normal jobs" (whatever those are) - just better than every minimum wage job I've ever held. Bragging about buying multiple houses? No. I mentioned that I bought A SINGULAR house - (then Munch ribbed me about losing it - but he knows me so it's okay). Sure, most women would disagree with me - but most women are sex negative as the rest of the culture. They've been told that porn is oppressive, prostitutes are dirty, and the only acceptable use of their sexuality is as leverage over their boyfriends / husbands.  They tend to be dismissive of me when they think I'm talking out my ass, then extremely uncomfortable when they find out I was a sex worker. Not offended - more like "deer in headlights".

I've likely read the same studies you have. The "significant disconnect" to which you refer has a name - compartmentalization - and it's not *all* bad. People who have suffered trauma (it's not just sexual abuse, btw) in the past have an easier time dealing with trauma in the present. I agree with you that people who grow up with "Leave It To Beaver" childhoods generally can't do sex work very long - but it isn't because they are less damaged, more stable, or any saner than the sex workers. They simply lack years of experience in delaying the processing of strong emotions - they haven't got the skills. Like I said, there is correlation between past abuse and the ability to maintain as a sex worker - but correlation is not causation. I know that it's easier to pass judgement on a prostitute, tell yourself that it's the fault of her upbringing and it could *never* be somebody you know... but seriously, we're not that exotic.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that compartmentalization is entirely *healthy* either. It literally feels like pushing things down - and if you do it for too long, or you don't ever deal with the emotional stuff welling back up... I've seen a few girls go down that road - and it's not pretty. Drug addictions, other numbing behaviors, self-harm, letting themselves become used to lavish lifestyles and telling themselves they're trapped... these are all real outcomes for some girls. Those girls' outcomes are well-documented, but I'm telling you that in my experience they are *not* in the majority. Think about this: how prevalent would you believe ch1ld **66** to be if all you had to judge by were cable news? The vast majority of studies focus on the segments of the sex worker population most likely to promote society's view of prostitutes as damaged, shameful, powerless, pitiable outsiders... which is such bullshit! There is a lot of propaganda on this subject... but read Margo St. James or Annie Sprinkle and check out COYOTE (Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics) if you are interested in a different point of view.

Oooh... I'm going to enjoy responding to this one. It's not *only* sex negativity that hurts women in the biz (plenty of hazards to go around) but I take your meaning. There is a group called COYOTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COYOTE) which pushes for decriminalization (rather than legalization) of **31** for exactly this reason. Legalization would increase supply and lower prices, whereas decriminalization would simply make it easier to do business. Personally, I disagree with them on this front - I would like to see us return to a time when women could be worshiped for doing such a job, like the temple prostitutes of old. I think most modern societies hold such strongly sex negative views because they are patriarchal - all gods, no goddesses. I believe if we had the Divine Feminine in our culture - the concept of a sexual goddess - things would be very different. If you look back to Greek and Roman times they had coins printed with a value on one side, and the depiction of a sex act on the other. There is plenty of public ancient art in India, China, Greece, etc. to support the idea that sex negativity is a fairly recent development. If poor men have few wives - but **31** isn't stigmatized - I doubt you'd have an unstable society. It is only when you have large groups of sexually frustrated men that you get societal increases in violence, r4pe, and other sexual acting out (Catholic priests, anyone?). In general, I've noticed that sexually fulfilled men are a pretty amiable lot.

Well... I think that covered the majority of the comments involving me...

Tomoe "we now return you to your regularly scheduled boobies, already in progress" Gozen

I appreciate your thoughtful responses.  You certainly write well and defend your positions properly, but there's one major point/issue that you have noticeably left out.  I was hoping not to have to ask you this, but given that you haven't addressed it at all and it's actually the main point of this entire thread, I feel I must:  were you ever abused, sexually of physically, in your past?

I am guessing based on your extremely thorough understanding of compartmentalization, as well as your lucid description of "pushing things down" as well as all the other stuff you described, that the answer is unfortunately "yes".   Your words sound exactly like someone who is either a mental health professional who deals with abuse victims on a regular basis, or someone who has been through her fair share of intensive therapy in order to come to grips with past abuse that was done to her.

Sorry, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but given all your responses in here and the purpose of this discussion, I feel it's a fair question.  If you do choose to answer it, I hope you will answer honestly.

[Stobou]

There are interesting tangents spinning in this discussion.  Erica's statements were unprofessional and inappropriate.  Quoting studies with no scientific merit does not excuse that behaviour.  It reminds me of women who claim to have been victims of abuse to attract attention or sympathy.  White knights are then suckered.

[DJPFC]

There are interesting tangents spinning in this discussion.  Erica's statements were unprofessional and inappropriate.  Quoting studies with no scientific merit does not excuse that behaviour.  It reminds me of women who claim to have been victims of abuse to attract attention or sympathy.  White knights are then suckered.

Erica didn't quote any studies.  I was the one who was talking about that.  Please read what she actually wrote, it's in this thread.  And I know her personally and what went on and what's gone on in her life, and you do not, so don't make assumptions about her based on your limited view of all the women you seem to know who "claim to have been victims of abuse to attract attention or sympathy".

[Kichi_7]

Late to the party as always, but let's see if I can't drop my two cents into this one. Before I pull anything out of my own noggin, I just have to say;

What a bunch of whiny, self-righteous bull. Reads almost like a copy of Crissy Moran's big screw you letter to her fans and the industry that made her lots of money when she quit the biz.

Why do these girls think they have it so damn hard in their lives? How about a reality check? If I could make 500 bucks an hour grinding my ass on a pole or in front of a webcam I certainly wouldn't complain but feel damned lucky. It's as easy and dumb a money-making machine as there is. There is no other (legal) job where you can make a six figure income with no education and professional experience. The vast majority of us here (and the vast majority of their fans) have to slave away in meaningless, repetitive blue collar and white collar jobs for a tiny fraction of the buckets of dollars these girls receive just to get naked. It's not like you need an education and a $100k master's degree to do that and they can still pull in a mid-level management salary just by showing their bits. They're the ones who have it easy, easier than almost anyone else in this economy, because their looks virtually give them a free ride to go anywhere and do anything they want. Heck, even if they don't want to work at all, a girl with such extraordinary looks could always bag some rich guy and be set for life.

If they squander all of their earnings on shoes, booze, drugs and abusive, mooching boyfriends then that's their own fault, certainly not their fans' or the industries'. How about taking responsibility for your own choices instead of blaming your problems on some ominous godlessness and the "pervs" that paid for your rent, car and clothes over the last couple of years? In the end it's a business and you have to be smart about it, like you have to do in any other business. Those girls that are smart can make a boatload of money in just a few years and do what they want with the rest of their lives - an opportunity that most of us will never ever get in life. Girls like Jenna Jameson and Sasha Grey come to mind here, these ladies don't just look good, they're also very intelligent and business savvy. I don't remember Sasha being that condescending towards her fans. She went in it for the money, made some great cash during the just three years she did porn, made some connections in the entertainment business and then moved on to bigger and better things, no regrets. That's a smart, professional woman in my book and it's women like that who go far, whether in the sex industry or any other profession.

What I partly agree on with Erica is that some guys can be very obsessive about porn and that definitely isn't healthy. But that kind of addictive behavior is only common among a small minority of porn consumers. Every man consumes porn and for the vast majority of us it's a let's download some shit for free, shoot a load and be done with it for the day kind of a thing that we spend  maybe 15 minutes on. It's as mundane as taking your dump of the day and there's not always a willing lady around to schlob your knob. Hence why man came up with pornography ever since he put charcoal on cave walls. Porn is not meant to be meaningful or intimate, it's no substitute for a woman but simply a tool to take care of our sex drive when there's no opportunity to do it with a woman. That is your average porn consumer.

Then there are guys that become fans, buy web site subscriptions and write the girls emails (or the webmaster pretending to be the girl, as in one well known case). And among that minority an even smaller minority will become fanatics and obsess about girls they will never meet and start collecting gigabyte after gigabyte of content. For these guys a girl like Erica will indeed become a substitute for a real woman in their everyday life and a projection of their own loneliness. However that percentage of addicts is the same in basically any area, whether it's porn, booze, gambling, drugs or video games. Addictive behavior is not exclusive to porn. Naturally those at the receiving end (like Erica) see a lot more of those addicts, the same as a black jack dealer sees more gambling addicts than your average Joe Shmoe. They just shouldn't confuse that narrow peer group with reality and with the average man.

As for religion, I'll just leave it to Robert A. Heinlein to express what I think about this redundant "God fills my hole" mantra - which by the way always sounds kind of pervy itsself (usually because the invisible old guy in the sky fills the void of an absentee dad/male role model - psychology 101).

"A religion is sometimes a source of happiness, and I would not deprive anyone of happiness. But it is a comfort appropriate for the weak, not for the strong."

Just my two cents. Hope I didn't sound too much like a dick here, but religionists annoy me since they cause far more problems than they believe they're solving with their little crusades.

Yes, I know, Pipatel's dick has long been sucked dry for this post. Be that as it may, it's snippets of human intelligence like this that keep me only 99% certain that this tangled mess we call the human race is going to spiral into oblivion one of these days. Thank you, sir.
And have fun, little ones.
Second;

Personally, I don't care for the religious flavored bullshit coming out of this girl either.  Sex work has it's own dangers, true, but if you're an adult you get to make your own choices... and then live with the consequences. You stay and make your money - or not - but don't whine like a little girl on your way out.

It's just... I love masturbation. I love porn. I love sex. And I am *so* sick of the sex-negativity permeating this culture! Your post pretty much hit all of my buttons - likening masturbation to elimination, insinuating that women who do sex work ought to be ashamed, and saying that porn is only for those men who can't get a woman? You bet I came out swinging. Now tell me that masturbation is sexy, prostitutes ought to be thanked for the job they do, and that married men who also consume porn are studs... then we can bray off into the sunset together, equally yoked in our jackassery.

Shocking as it may be, I actually don't care about whether "most people" respect me. "Most people" are idiotic sheep and I wear their disdain as a badge of honor.

"Um, yes, waiter? I'll have what she's having."

But seriously, BadKitty may be my sexual doppelganger, but in this regard, you are very much a woman after my own heart, Tomoe.

Now, as for miss Campbell. I'm not going to sit here and call up my 12th grade English teacher, or make friends with thesaurus.com in an attempt to make my opinion sound more intelligent and/or important than it really is. To be honest, I read this thread's comments before even reading her statement. By the time I reached the end, I suppose her note had been far too hyped up in my mind, because damn was I disappointed after reading it. Nothing spectacular enough to warrant such an intellectual debate, at least not in this guy's opinion. Just your standard "I've found God, you should too!...like, now!" speech, with a little "Oh, and I quit, k thx bai." thrown in, for the most part. I've my own opinion on the security blanket that is religion, but that's for another thread.

All I'll say is that Christianity, while I may not agree with it, provides comfort and happiness to a large part of this world, and for that I respect it. I hope miss Campbell leads a happy life down the path she's chosen. My only issue with her statement is my only issue with most adamant Christians, the in-your-face, "This is the ONLY way to live, get with the program or suffer the consequences." attitude that the majority adopt. Everyone is free to worship whatever invisible man in the sky they wish, but when you drag another person's way of living through the mud is when you earn enemies.

You have fun playing Patty Cake with Abe Lincoln in the clouds for all eternity.
I'm just fine with my box in the ground.

[DruulEmpire]

I was dreading yet another response to this thread -- but thanks, Kichi.

*Druul looks around for a huge heavy rock, a rope, and a lake*

addendum:  for this THREAD, good man, for this THREAD.

[Kichi_7]

Gah! Did I do something wrong? Don't do it! Think of the rock!

I mean...your life! Yeah...that.

[Tomoe_Gozen]

I appreciate your thoughtful responses.  You certainly write well and defend your positions properly, but there's one major point/issue that you have noticeably left out.  I was hoping not to have to ask you this, but given that you haven't addressed it at all and it's actually the main point of this entire thread, I feel I must:  were you ever abused, sexually of physically, in your past?
I am guessing based on your extremely thorough understanding of compartmentalization, as well as your lucid description of "pushing things down" as well as all the other stuff you described, that the answer is unfortunately "yes".   Your words sound exactly like someone who is either a mental health professional who deals with abuse victims on a regular basis, or someone who has been through her fair share of intensive therapy in order to come to grips with past abuse that was done to her.
Sorry, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but given all your responses in here and the purpose of this discussion, I feel it's a fair question.  If you do choose to answer it, I hope you will answer honestly.

*shrug* I have no reason to answer anything but honestly, and for the sake of context I'll tell you the story - if you promise not to react with pity. There's a parable that goes something like: "The river would have no song if it's bed had no stones" and though my life had a rough start it is flowing along quite happily now. Yes, I was abused (physically, never sexually) as a ch1ld. It got bad enough that at 10 I was placed into foster care, where I got plenty of lowest-bidder state funded therapy. The therapy provided by the state was depressingly inconsistent in quality, but that's where I learned the lingo. The therapy that actually *helped* the most was getting into martial arts when I was a teenager. Learning to defend myself taught me that I don't have to be afraid - that my body is my own, and I can break the face of anyone who thinks otherwise. When I got older I realized - hey, my body is my own... so who says I can't use it any way I like?

Choosing to become a sex worker wasn't the healthiest decision I'd ever made, but it was *my choice*. I, and I alone bear the consequences. Erica Campbell is an adult, and only a victim if she didn't make the choice to take her clothes off for money willingly. If she were coerced or forced into this lifestyle, then she has my utmost sympathy and support - otherwise, I think she should suck it up and learn to deal. Becoming a victim is rarely a choice, but remaining one is.

[Stobou]

The complexities and challenges of completing behavioral studies of women who are suspected of having psychopathic traits have been noted in the forensic literature. The various different masks that the female psychopath displays at different times often has more to do with the audience and the manipulation at that moment that will benefit the individual wearing the mask than the true nature of the individual wearing the mask.

...'nuff said