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gonZo

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5745 on: March 27, 2017, 10:21:29 PM »
...but what happens if it's proven that the 2016 election was so buggered by outside influences that a republican administration can't conclusively justify its presence in the White House?

Do we just live with the dregs of this travesty, or do we redo/unfuck the election?

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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5746 on: March 28, 2017, 02:13:13 AM »
...but what happens if it's proven that the 2016 election was so buggered by outside influences that a republican administration can't conclusively justify its presence in the White House?

Do we just live with the dregs of this travesty, or do we redo/unfuck the election?

I think that is the very definition of "a constitutional crisis". The Founding Fathers never expected a Manchurian candidate situation of this nature. The one main firewall they put in (the Electoral College) failed woefully.
AOC, HC, TW, BO, KH: FU. FUATH. 100x.

Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5747 on: March 28, 2017, 10:42:45 AM »
...but what happens if it's proven that the 2016 election was so buggered by outside influences that a republican administration can't conclusively justify its presence in the White House?

Do we just live with the dregs of this travesty, or do we redo/unfuck the election?

I think that is the very definition of "a constitutional crisis". The Founding Fathers never expected a Manchurian candidate situation of this nature. The one main firewall they put in (the Electoral College) failed woefully.

I don't think this will happen because it would end in a civil war. The Trumpel fans would never admit it even courts would say different. For them all others are enemies or traitors thanks to to the fact that a certain candidate wasn't forced to watch his language and never was asked to stop his lying.
Anti-social behaviours lack consideration for the well-being of others. Any types of conduct that violates basic rights (human rights is one of them) of another person. It can show as covert or overt hostility.

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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5748 on: March 29, 2017, 09:56:11 PM »

I don't think this will happen because it would end in a civil war. The Trumpel fans would never admit it even courts would say different. For them all others are enemies or traitors thanks to to the fact that a certain candidate wasn't forced to watch his language and never was asked to stop his lying.

The problem with that is that while Americans talk a big game, when push comes to shove, they ain't going to do anything as dramatic as have actual internecine warfare. They reserve such things for cinematic fantasies like Red Dawn.
AOC, HC, TW, BO, KH: FU. FUATH. 100x.

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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5749 on: March 29, 2017, 10:13:45 PM »
It's been a busy day today in the world of American politics.

In New Jersey, two former aides to Gov. Chris Christie, Bridget Kelly and Bill Baroni, were sentenced to prison for their part in the "Bridgegate" scandal. Ms. Kelly received a 1.5-year prison term, while Mr. Baroni will be cooling his heels in "Club Fed" for two years. They also both were sentenced to a year of probation, and 500 hours of community service. To refresh your memory:
Quote

The government’s star witness, David Wildstein, testified that he and the co-defendants plotted to cause gridlock to retaliate against the Democratic mayor of nearby Fort Lee for not endorsing Christie’s re-election.

Fort Lee was plunged into gridlock for four days in September 2013...

Kelly’s now infamous email reading, “Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,” left a lasting impression during the trial. So did a text message reading, “Is it wrong that I’m smiling?”...

The scandal derailed Christie’s presidential aspirations and likely cost him a chance to be then-GOP nominee Donald Trump’s running mate.

Questions remain over when, and how much, Christie knew about the plan to realign access lanes from Fort Lee to the bridge’s upper level.



Candidate for governor when Gov. Christie's term ends (and current State Senator) John Wisniewski said of today's sentencing:
Quote

As the one who discovered the email reading, ‘time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,’ today’s sentencing gives me no joy. But these two individuals broke the law, abused their power and endangered lives of commuters for petty political purposes and deserved punishment.

While many in the establishment will try to spin today’s sentencing of Bill Baroni and Bridget Ann Kelly as a convenient end to the Bridgegate scandal, we must remember there are far too many unanswered questions about what role their boss — Chris Christie — played.

I have long maintained the idea that Gov. Christie — a world-class micro-manager — did not know what his senior staff were doing to Fort Lee to be laughable. I am again asking Speaker Vincent Prieto to reconvene the Select Committee on Investigations so we can finish what we started. To finally resolve Bridgegate, we must put Gov. Christie under oath to demand he answer for what he knew and when he knew it.

We must move beyond the transactional and corrupt politics of Gov. Christie that have dominated New Jersey politics. For too long our state’s leaders have fostered a rigged system that caters to the wealthy and the Wall Street elites, while destroying our middle class. That ends on June 6.
AOC, HC, TW, BO, KH: FU. FUATH. 100x.

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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5750 on: March 29, 2017, 10:20:05 PM »
Also today, in what surely must be a complete and total coincidence:

LA Times: "Trump taps Chris Christie to lead fight against nation's opioid addiction crisis"
Quote

Ater being unceremoniously dropped from President Trump's transition team, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is dipping his toes into the administration as he takes the lead of a White House commission to combat drug addiction.

Trump kicked off a commission to combat the growing problem at an event Wednesday at the White House.

Trump promised to step up drug abuse prevention and law enforcement efforts, and he told one woman who lost her son to an overdose that he did not die in vain. He also told a recovering addict that she was “a perfect person.”...

Christie told the Associated Press that he has “no interest in having a permanent role” in the Trump administration at this time, but that the president asked him to spearhead efforts to combat opioid and drug abuse as he completes his term as governor.

“He asked me to help with this and I'm going to,” Christie said. “It's an issue that I care about a lot in New Jersey and for the country and so the president asked me to do this and I was happy to.”

Christie has been friends with Trump for years and has been working behind the scenes with the White House on the issue for months, discussing it with aides including Kellyanne Conway, a fellow New Jersey native, and the president. The commission is being rolled out as part of a new office led by Trump's son-in-law and top advisor, Jared Kushner, whose father was prosecuted by Christie in his former role as U.S. attorney.

Christie, who had lunch with Kushner on Tuesday to discuss the administration's policy, downplayed reports of tensions between the two.

“It was great,” Christie said. “We are talking about the opioid issue because it's one of the things that's going to be overseen out of his department and so we had a good lunch and a good opportunity to lay out what we need to do and what our goals are.”...
AOC, HC, TW, BO, KH: FU. FUATH. 100x.

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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5751 on: March 29, 2017, 10:45:14 PM »
Also today:

CNN: "Ivanka Trump is making her White House job official"
Quote

"I have heard the concerns some have with my advising the President in my personal capacity while voluntarily complying with all ethics rules, and I will instead serve as an unpaid employee in the White House Office, subject to all of the same rules as other federal employees," Ivanka Trump said in a statement. "Throughout this process I have been working closely and in good faith with the White House counsel and my personal counsel to address the unprecedented nature of my role."...

Ivanka Trump took a formal leave of absence from her eponymous apparel and accessories brand, as well as the Trump Organization, in January. She has long been a key trusted adviser to her father, through her young adulthood to her time as executive vice president of real estate development and acquisition at the Trump Organization, and, ultimately, to his 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump will continue in that capacity, serving as the President's "eyes and ears," per Gorelick.

"She will not be his only source of input and insight, obviously, but she may be able to provide insights into the concerns of people whom he might not meet as President," Gorelick told CNN via email last week.

Remember when we were all told this wouldn't happen? Like, specifically, Ivanka herself said she wouldn't be part of the administration? And remember when, in yet another attempt at a false equivalence, they raised a stink when Pres. Obama's mother-in-law decided to live in the White House to help the First Lady to take care of their daughters? And no doubt someone else will want to pull another false equivalence with things that Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama did in their capacity as First Lady of the United States, but let us remember that Ivanka isn't FLOTUS -- wife #3 is.

By the way, there are laws against this sort of thing, specifically 5 U.S. Code § 3110 (1967): "Employment of relatives; restrictions", which states in part:
Quote

"A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official.

An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual."

This is not normal.
AOC, HC, TW, BO, KH: FU. FUATH. 100x.

Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5752 on: March 29, 2017, 11:38:03 PM »
Also today:

CNN: "Ivanka Trump is making her White House job official"
Quote

"I have heard the concerns some have with my advising the President in my personal capacity while voluntarily complying with all ethics rules, and I will instead serve as an unpaid employee in the White House Office, subject to all of the same rules as other federal employees," Ivanka Trump said in a statement. "Throughout this process I have been working closely and in good faith with the White House counsel and my personal counsel to address the unprecedented nature of my role."...

Ivanka Trump took a formal leave of absence from her eponymous apparel and accessories brand, as well as the Trump Organization, in January. She has long been a key trusted adviser to her father, through her young adulthood to her time as executive vice president of real estate development and acquisition at the Trump Organization, and, ultimately, to his 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump will continue in that capacity, serving as the President's "eyes and ears," per Gorelick.

"She will not be his only source of input and insight, obviously, but she may be able to provide insights into the concerns of people whom he might not meet as President," Gorelick told CNN via email last week.

Remember when we were all told this wouldn't happen? Like, specifically, Ivanka herself said she wouldn't be part of the administration? And remember when, in yet another attempt at a false equivalence, they raised a stink when Pres. Obama's mother-in-law decided to live in the White House to help the First Lady to take care of their daughters? And no doubt someone else will want to pull another false equivalence with things that Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama did in their capacity as First Lady of the United States, but let us remember that Ivanka isn't FLOTUS -- wife #3 is.

By the way, there are laws against this sort of thing, specifically 5 U.S. Code § 3110 (1967): "Employment of relatives; restrictions", which states in part:
Quote

"A public official may not appoint, employ, promote, advance, or advocate for appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement, in or to a civilian position in the agency in which he is serving or over which he exercises jurisdiction or control any individual who is a relative of the public official.

An individual may not be appointed, employed, promoted, or advanced in or to a civilian position in an agency if such appointment, employment, promotion, or advancement has been advocated by a public official, serving in or exercising jurisdiction or control over the agency, who is a relative of the individual."

This is not normal.

Where is the problem? With stone age Trumpel and his hillbilly tribal administration it is clear that tribal structures have to come to the white house. And what are laws you just showed? Excuse me but executive orders are much better and laws should be shoved up the asses. Stone age tribals have their own rules running.
Ever seen the new leader maximus president Broud in "The Clan of the cave bear"?
Anti-social behaviours lack consideration for the well-being of others. Any types of conduct that violates basic rights (human rights is one of them) of another person. It can show as covert or overt hostility.

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StrikezOne

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5753 on: March 30, 2017, 08:47:27 PM »
Woah, CNN sourced and linked. Wonder if a liberal is gonna call that out for the bullshit company they are. Imagine if Brietbart was sourced and linked in a similar fashion??? Self reflect my ass.


Still waiting....



1. Does anyone believe Russia helped Trump win the primaries?

2. Did Hillary Clinton win the primaries FAIR and SQUARE?

3. What is the difference between what is being alleged Russia did in the elections to what CNN actually did?

4. How many countries's elections has the United States meddled in?

5. Has there been any evidence proving Russia "hacked" the elections?

6. Why does the Russia allegations hold ground but nothing that goes against Democrats hold any ground? Is the simple rule to follow: conspiracies against Trump, good... conspiracies against democrats, bad?

7. Why is Wikileaks completely ignored when they release material proving the CIA/NSA has capabilities of being able to hack and leave a trail back to Russia?

8. How many foreign donors did Hillary Clinton and her campaign/foundation have?
Imagine if Obama, Kamala, or Biden survived two assassination attempts and the media not publicly destroying the reputation of everyone who issued even the most mild criticism of them and then just dropping the story completely.

Yeah, I cannot either.

Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5754 on: March 31, 2017, 07:02:54 AM »
Example of an extreme - extremistic left online news sources (nothing I want to read because of BS and because it makes someone aggressive and it is pulling someone in into undemocratic point of views that I don't support and finally makes someone extremistic, too). Kind of the exact right oppostion to the extremistic German site "political incorrect news" or extremistic US Breitbartnews:
http://www.infopartisan.net/
https://linksunten.indymedia.org/

CNN is a democratic news source in the center of the democratic society.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 07:06:21 AM by andrat2000 »
Anti-social behaviours lack consideration for the well-being of others. Any types of conduct that violates basic rights (human rights is one of them) of another person. It can show as covert or overt hostility.

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StrikezOne

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5755 on: March 31, 2017, 08:23:35 PM »
CNN is a democratic news source in the center of the democratic society.

Imagine if Obama, Kamala, or Biden survived two assassination attempts and the media not publicly destroying the reputation of everyone who issued even the most mild criticism of them and then just dropping the story completely.

Yeah, I cannot either.

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rtpoe

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5756 on: March 31, 2017, 11:12:11 PM »
1. Does anyone believe Russia helped Trump win the primaries?

No, the Russian interference started AFTER Trump had clinched the nomination.

2. Did Hillary Clinton win the primaries FAIR and SQUARE?

Yes, and irrelevant. She's not the president.

3. What is the difference between what is being alleged Russia did in the elections to what CNN actually did?

Russia is a rival foreign government.

4. How many countries's elections has the United States meddled in?

Irrelevant.

5. Has there been any evidence proving Russia "hacked" the elections?

No, because they didn't "hack" the elections. It's not the actual voting process that is believed to have been interfered with, but the dissemination of information detrimental to the Democrats with the collusion of the Republicans during the months between the conventions and the election itself that's the issue.

6. Why does the Russia allegations hold ground but nothing that goes against Democrats hold any ground? Is the simple rule to follow: conspiracies against Trump, good... conspiracies against democrats, bad?

So far, all the Democratic "conspiracies" have been investigated and found to be bogus. No, there wasn't a  secret sex ring operating out of the basement of a pizza parlor. The attack on the Benghazi consulate was not an attempt to let Ambassador Stevens get k'dnapped so he could then be exchanged for some terrorist leaders we have in prison, so Obama could somehow secretly bring Sharia law to the US..... The Russian allegations hold ground, as you put it, because there's a ring of truth to them - and we have yet to get to the bottom of them. It really, really, really would be the best possible outcome if they all turned out to be bogus. All those meetings? Perhaps they were just normal social contacts, maybe setting up potential diplomatic connections for later. The strange timing of the leaks of information detrimental to the Democrats, like campaign manager John Podesta's e-mails coming out within hours after the "Access Hollywood" "hot mike" tape of Trump bragging about committing sexual assault? Possibly pure coincidence! But the investigation has just started, so there's no way of being even remotely certain.

7. Why is Wikileaks completely ignored when they release material proving the CIA/NSA has capabilities of being able to hack and leave a trail back to Russia?

Because that's what we expect - and want - the CIA and NSA to be able to do.

8. How many foreign donors did Hillary Clinton and her campaign/foundation have?

Irrelevant. Again, she's not the president. One could also ask how many lives the Clinton Foundation saved, or the many illegal things Trump did with the money raised by his "foundation" (bribing officials, buying junk for his personal use...).
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance

Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5757 on: April 01, 2017, 01:19:38 AM »
Each modern western society consists of 15% convinced Nazi's. The rest are conservative, liberal, centrists or lefts and maybe 5% convinced communists.

So a society has usually 80% people that are valuing democracy. Same for the news sources. That's all not that new.

What is new is that the Nazi's are pushing their extremists news sources and their opinions into the center of the democratic houses. Telling people by mind fogging (fake news) their Nazi sites are democratic news sources while the real democratic news sources got pushed by them into the extremist left, into the communism wing.

But fake news and fake opinions will actually not twist the reality: News sources that value democracy are the center of democracy and Nazi news sources are Nazi news sources.

Anti-social behaviours lack consideration for the well-being of others. Any types of conduct that violates basic rights (human rights is one of them) of another person. It can show as covert or overt hostility.

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StrikezOne

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5758 on: April 04, 2017, 04:45:43 PM »
1. Does anyone believe Russia helped Trump win the primaries?

No, the Russian interference started AFTER Trump had clinched the nomination.

He beat 16 other candidates all on his own. Okay, check.

2. Did Hillary Clinton win the primaries FAIR and SQUARE?

Yes, and irrelevant. She's not the president.

This is not true. It has already been covered how the DNC sabotaged Bernie Sanders in favor of Hillary. Wikileaks proved it. Not my opinion. And who is to say if its relevant or not, you? Set a standard, practice what you accuse others of doing.

3. What is the difference between what is being alleged Russia did in the elections to what CNN actually did?

Russia is a rival foreign government.

I think you meant to say country. Wow, how obvious though huh? Russia is a country and CNN is a corporation. But I wasnt asking a 3rd grader this question. The difference is that CNN, who claims to be unbiased, had clear motives and an agenda.

Its been proven CNN favored Hillary and the dissemination of information.... CNN was in collusion with the DNC.

There is proof of CNN's involvement and ZERO proof of Russias.

4. How many countries's elections has the United States meddled in?

Irrelevant.

It is irrelevant to you because it doesnt make your argument look any better.

The answer is, and I will guesstimate, over 20 countries.

5. Has there been any evidence proving Russia "hacked" the elections?

No, because they didn't "hack" the elections. It's not the actual voting process that is believed to have been interfered with, but the dissemination of information detrimental to the Democrats with the collusion of the Republicans during the months between the conventions and the election itself that's the issue.

Yeah, no actual proof of Russia interfering at all. And its been months.. Where is bernie sanders to come out and say "we are sick and tired hearing about those damn Russia allegations!"?

6. Why does the Russia allegations hold ground but nothing that goes against Democrats hold any ground? Is the simple rule to follow: conspiracies against Trump, good... conspiracies against democrats, bad?

So far, all the Democratic "conspiracies" have been investigated and found to be bogus. No, there wasn't a  secret sex ring operating out of the basement of a pizza parlor. The attack on the Benghazi consulate was not an attempt to let Ambassador Stevens get k'dnapped so he could then be exchanged for some terrorist leaders we have in prison, so Obama could somehow secretly bring Sharia law to the US..... The Russian allegations hold ground, as you put it, because there's a ring of truth to them - and we have yet to get to the bottom of them. It really, really, really would be the best possible outcome if they all turned out to be bogus. All those meetings? Perhaps they were just normal social contacts, maybe setting up potential diplomatic connections for later. The strange timing of the leaks of information detrimental to the Democrats, like campaign manager John Podesta's e-mails coming out within hours after the "Access Hollywood" "hot mike" tape of Trump bragging about committing sexual assault? Possibly pure coincidence! But the investigation has just started, so there's no way of being even remotely certain.

I think you meant to say Republican conspiracies? Im not sure there. But there sure as hell was a lot of damage control when it came to pizzagate. The Benghazi example you gave was a bit of a stretch and Ive never heard anyone theorize what you said. Maybe thats you trying to give someone a bad name. The whole Benghazi thing was about Obama and Hillary lying about it and the fact that they were transferring weapons illegally to Syrian rebels.

Why not look at coincidents that can uncover corruption in the DNC? Loretta lynchs meeting with Bill clinton? Timing of that? timing of the trump leak tape before the debate.

It just seems like liberals want to investigate things that they want and say "oh these have really x3 truth to them!"

7. Why is Wikileaks completely ignored when they release material proving the CIA/NSA has capabilities of being able to hack and leave a trail back to Russia?

Because that's what we expect - and want - the CIA and NSA to be able to do.

Because they would never lie to the American people about who actually hacked something right?

8. How many foreign donors did Hillary Clinton and her campaign/foundation have?

Irrelevant. Again, she's not the president. One could also ask how many lives the Clinton Foundation saved, or the many illegal things Trump did with the money raised by his "foundation" (bribing officials, buying junk for his personal use...).


Saudi Arabia donating millions to Clintons [campaign]. If she would have won it aint like there would be this frenzy over who helped her.
Imagine if Obama, Kamala, or Biden survived two assassination attempts and the media not publicly destroying the reputation of everyone who issued even the most mild criticism of them and then just dropping the story completely.

Yeah, I cannot either.

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TheZookie007

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Re: MERGED: The Politics Thread
« Reply #5759 on: April 04, 2017, 08:15:24 PM »
When an investigation is not yet complete, one cannot say "there's no evidence, therefore it didn't happen." At least that's what most people with a modicum of common sense wouldn't do.

Meanwhile:

CNN's Wolf Blitzer: "But you think some people are going to wind up in jail, not just one individual, but people plural."

Rep. Joaquín Castro (D-TX, a member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence): "That’s my impression."

BLITZER: "You want to elaborate on that give us more? Because that is obviously a very intriguing statement."

CASTRO: "I wish I could, but I can’t at this time."

BLITZER: "You’re confident that some Trump associates will end up in jail."

CASTRO: "If I were betting, yes."


I will not hold my breath until it happens though.
AOC, HC, TW, BO, KH: FU. FUATH. 100x.