[TheZookie007]

Warren Buffet is opposing this Trumpel-Disaster-Care, because it will relieve especially the very rich. He said in his example it would have reduced last years tax by a whopping 17%.

Depending on what day it is, Warren Buffett is the second- or third-richest man not just in the United States of America, but of the entire world. He is a true, actual, verifiable multi-billionaire -- and yet he doesn't shirk paying his share of taxes. Meanwhile, the current occupant of the Oval Office is the exact opposite. What does it say when a true multi-billionaire has no problem with paying more taxes if it goes to saving the lives of millions of his fellow citizens when they need it the most, and when another fellow who played a billionaire on TV is trying to get himself and others in the 1% an $880 billion tax cut?

[TheZookie007]

Just found this about German taxes - and it has left me speechless. Wow, pay *in advance* you're shitting me!

"Everyone working or running their own business pays income tax, quarterly in advance, with a tax assessment at the end of the calendar year. Profits are taxed at the personal tax rate, with a tax-free personal allowance for a single person at EUR 8,130. If you’re married, your income is taken together and the rate is EUR 16,620. The base tax rate is 14 percent rising to 42 percent for a taxable income of EUR 52,882.

But isn't this what is done in the US as well? Taxes on income from self-employment or on a 1099 has to be paid quarterly?

[StrikezOne]

By the way best example how the general public pays for a billionaire who made bad business decissions is Mr. Trumpel.

*sneaks back into thread*

Oh, and here I thought the too big to fail bankers from the 2008 crisis was the best example of the general public paying for billionaires who made bad decisions. You know, the trillion dollar bailouts? The biggest transfer of wealth in the history of the world? All because guys like Jaime Dimon, Stan Oneal and Ken Lewis made some stupid decisions including one going to Vegas and gambling away money. And then the US government deciding to pretty much greenlight stealing money from the average people to bail out these bankers.

To think, all this time I thought this was pretty bad but I guess Trump and his damn "tax evasion" is wayyyyy worse on the general public.

*sneaks back out of thread*

[rtpoe]

Not that much surprising. He already warned them after the 1st fail. But ask yourself what is the next step of escalation if bullying wouldn't help. Is he or his radical minions going to send death squadrons after disagreeing representatives?

I've read that a key reason the bill got rammed through was that Trump was so desperate for something he could call a "win" was that he personally called several representatives to essentially bully them to voting for it. This partly explains why there was a "victory party" on the White House lawn immediately afterwards.

Let's keep calling the bill "Trumpcare" in his honor.

Especially since the Senate has decided to ignore it and work on their own bill.

Well, he's got other things to worry about.

In her testimony before Congress, Sally Yates stated that in January, she asked for and got a meeting with White House Counsel Don McGahn. She wanted to tell them that the Justice Dept. had evidence that Michael Flynn's statement that he had no contact with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in December was a flat-out lie. Her concerns were that not only had Flynn lied, but that the Russians had to know he was lying and could use that as blackmail.

McGahn asked her to come back the next day for more discussions. Yates said she was asked if she could provide the information that the Justice Dept. had on Flynn; she agreed to make it available.

Then she was fired.

TWO WEEKS LATER, the White House finally got around to dumping Flynn - and blaming Obama.

James Clapper, former Director of National Intelligence, also testified.

Trump & Co. were banking on Clapper's statement in March where he said that he wasn't aware of any collusion between the campaign and Russia to cover their asses.

But in his testimony, Clapper stated that the reason he wasn't aware of anything was because it was the FBI doing the investigating, and it was standard policy for the FBI to *NOT* share any details of counterintelligence with him.

He also noted that (confirming a recent report in The Guardian), back in late 2015, British intelligence shared some info with the US (as part of their routine sharing of intel) on suspicious interactions between Trump associates and known or suspected Russian agents.

So....

1. The Trump White House protected a national security adviser who THEY KNEW could be subject to blackmail by the Russians.
2. Trump can't use Clapper's statement to defend himself anymore.
3. Collusion may go back farther than we thought.

Of course, the Republicans on the panel were far more interested in who was doing the leaking and Yates' reaction to Trump's travel Muslim travel Muslim travel ban than anything else....

[rtpoe]

Oh, with regards to the above, and Trump's tweets asking the committee to ask Yates about the leaks, and reports that the White House contacted multiple Republican senators asking them to cancel the hearing:

18 U.S. Code, Section 1512 (b):

(b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to—

(1) influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding;

(2) cause or induce any person to—

(A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding;

(B) alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding;

(C) evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness, or to produce a record, document, or other object, in an official proceeding; or

(D) be absent from an official proceeding to which such person has been summoned by legal process; or

(3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation, supervised release, parole, or release pending judicial proceedings;

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512

Just putting it out there......(thanks, Keith Olbermann!)

[andrat2000]

Well I could accept that taxes in the first 5 years are seen as loan

I don't think we're going to agree on this to be honest. My view is; in each financial year if you make no profit you don't pay tax.  Personally, you'd scare off business and it would go somewhere else if you tax in the first year. That is why France has had tepid growth for years.

A lot of entrepreneurs have to put a lot of their own money in to starting a business - and businesses take time to mature.  So in your world; if the business fails - not only does the owner lose his own cash but he gets stung for taxes.  No thanks.

I'm going to have to look up starting a company in Deutschland and see what actually happens.  But Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut.  But I'd be surprised to see it work the way you say.

Just found this about German taxes - and it has left me speechless. Wow, pay *in advance* you're shitting me!

"Everyone working or running their own business pays income tax, quarterly in advance, with a tax assessment at the end of the calendar year. Profits are taxed at the personal tax rate, with a tax-free personal allowance for a single person at EUR 8,130. If you’re married, your income is taken together and the rate is EUR 16,620. The base tax rate is 14 percent rising to 42 percent for a taxable income of EUR 52,882.

Exactly and I'm glad it is like it is with advance payments. That's how it works in Germany. And still we are successful. Main point is if a business isn't worth a profit after a few years your business plan sucks. In that case stay away from trying to make business in Germany and let those people do it that do better with our tax structures.

Btw. the quartely is sometimes monthly.

Btw. if you try to run a business and only claim costs and loss for years the tax institution asume this is a hobby and deny you any further tax reductions. Good decision!

[andrat2000]

This person said it better than I.

Self destructive behaviour. Loose, loose situation.

[andrat2000]

Not that much surprising. He already warned them after the 1st fail. But ask yourself what is the next step of escalation if bullying wouldn't help. Is he or his radical minions going to send death squadrons after disagreeing representatives?

I've read that a key reason the bill got rammed through was that Trump was so desperate for something he could call a "win" was that he personally called several representatives to essentially bully them to voting for it. This partly explains why there was a "victory party" on the White House lawn immediately afterwards.

Let's keep calling the bill "Trumpcare" in his honor.

Especially since the Senate has decided to ignore it and work on their own bill.

Well, he's got other things to worry about.

In her testimony before Congress, Sally Yates stated that in January, she asked for and got a meeting with White House Counsel Don McGahn. She wanted to tell them that the Justice Dept. had evidence that Michael Flynn's statement that he had no contact with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in December was a flat-out lie. Her concerns were that not only had Flynn lied, but that the Russians had to know he was lying and could use that as blackmail.

McGahn asked her to come back the next day for more discussions. Yates said she was asked if she could provide the information that the Justice Dept. had on Flynn; she agreed to make it available.

Then she was fired.

TWO WEEKS LATER, the White House finally got around to dumping Flynn - and blaming Obama.

James Clapper, former Director of National Intelligence, also testified.

Trump & Co. were banking on Clapper's statement in March where he said that he wasn't aware of any collusion between the campaign and Russia to cover their asses.

But in his testimony, Clapper stated that the reason he wasn't aware of anything was because it was the FBI doing the investigating, and it was standard policy for the FBI to *NOT* share any details of counterintelligence with him.

He also noted that (confirming a recent report in The Guardian), back in late 2015, British intelligence shared some info with the US (as part of their routine sharing of intel) on suspicious interactions between Trump associates and known or suspected Russian agents.

So....

1. The Trump White House protected a national security adviser who THEY KNEW could be subject to blackmail by the Russians.
2. Trump can't use Clapper's statement to defend himself anymore.
3. Collusion may go back farther than we thought.

Of course, the Republicans on the panel were far more interested in who was doing the leaking and Yates' reaction to Trump's travel Muslim travel Muslim travel ban than anything else....

Did Trumpel via Twitter really bullying Mrs. Yates the day before or the morning she had her testimony to the congress?

[Hiram]

Exactly and I'm glad it is like it is with advance payments. That's how it works in Germany. And still we are successful.

Not that successful.  Deutsche Bank is bust and needing a bailout. Then there is VW - oh dear.  And frankly your economy is based on old metal bashing. Nothing new. There will come a time when you're going to have to innovate.

In that case stay away from trying to make business in Germany and let those people do it that do better with our tax structures.

I must admit I don't a lot about the German economy - but I have my doubts that your tax system encourages enterprise. Have you ever wondered why Google is based in Ireland and not Germany?  At the end of the day, with China and India now producing better products with less red tape and taxes than Germany, time will tell if your high tax economy will last.

The thing that has helped Germany is the Euro making its products cheaper than they would have been.  But you've been happy selling BMW's to the Greeks, but they couldn't afford them.

As you probably know, the in the 80's the EU was 40% of global trade, now it is 20%.

[TheZookie007]

As you probably know, the in the 80's the EU was 40% of global trade, now it is 20%.

Mainly because the rest of the world (i.e. the BRICS countries and the MINT countries) have grown their economies; the pie is bigger, so the EU's piece of the pie is slightly smaller, even as its absolute volume remains the same or even bigger.

[Hiram]

As you probably know, the in the 80's the EU was 40% of global trade, now it is 20%.

Mainly because the rest of the world (i.e. the BRICS countries and the MINT countries) have grown their economies; the pie is bigger, so the EU's piece of the pie is slightly smaller, even as its absolute volume remains the same or even bigger.

Maybe - although looking at EU growth figures over the pas few years I think they are loosing out overall.  If inflation has been higher than growth, than surely that mean a net decline?

Europe being many countries as we know, and not one entity as the US is. Some countries have seen there economies decline - Greece spring to mind here. France has had low growth for years and needs urgent reform.

Spain has 40% youth unemployment, and Italy isn't much better.  Germany is the only real success in the EU. We can see based on EU payment how well places have done.  Germany pays in the most, as there economy is the best performing.

[BacE]

Great! The dutch pay the most per person.

[andrat2000]

Exactly and I'm glad it is like it is with advance payments. That's how it works in Germany. And still we are successful.

Not that successful.  Deutsche Bank is bust and needing a bailout. Then there is VW - oh dear.  And frankly your economy is based on old metal bashing. Nothing new. There will come a time when you're going to have to innovate.

In that case stay away from trying to make business in Germany and let those people do it that do better with our tax structures.

I must admit I don't a lot about the German economy - but I have my doubts that your tax system encourages enterprise. Have you ever wondered why Google is based in Ireland and not Germany?  At the end of the day, with China and India now producing better products with less red tape and taxes than Germany, time will tell if your high tax economy will last.

The thing that has helped Germany is the Euro making its products cheaper than they would have been.  But you've been happy selling BMW's to the Greeks, but they couldn't afford them.

As you probably know, the in the 80's the EU was 40% of global trade, now it is 20%.

You are poorly informed. Oh dear, very bad informed. Deutsche Bank had no bail out and VW neither. VW pays it's bills themselves for cheating. And last quarter was one of the most successful again.

It was other banks that got a bailout. And no I didn't like that. As stated in these threads before I would have let them all fail - all of them or the stock owners pay for it if they want their company to suvive.

Really only old metal bashing? I think you are also very poorly informed about that. Yes we don't have silicon valley everywhere with disruptive technologies, but even Elon Musk bought a company in Germany to be able produce his cars. Some people are just very bad informed about other countries economics. I really wonder sometimes.

Well maybe the greek should buy Rolls Royce, Vauxhall or Chrysler, GM and Ford instead of BMW, Mercedes or Volkswagen .... I wonder why they don't. Possibly they soon all buy Tesla's innovative eCars if they accept dangerous and and partly lousy built cars.

As you probably know, the in the 80's the EU was 40% of global trade, now it is 20%.

Mainly because the rest of the world (i.e. the BRICS countries and the MINT countries) have grown their economies; the pie is bigger, so the EU's piece of the pie is slightly smaller, even as its absolute volume remains the same or even bigger.

Maybe - although looking at EU growth figures over the pas few years I think they are loosing out overall.  If inflation has been higher than growth, than surely that mean a net decline?

Europe being many countries as we know, and not one entity as the US is. Some countries have seen there economies decline - Greece spring to mind here. France has had low growth for years and needs urgent reform.

Spain has 40% youth unemployment, and Italy isn't much better.  Germany is the only real success in the EU. We can see based on EU payment how well places have done.  Germany pays in the most, as there economy is the best performing.

That's why I support what french president Macron just said (beside reforming France) about reforming the EU. More common social standards throughout the EU and a few other suggestions. German concervative politicans and economic instituations/big companies who now already oppose this shouldn't be listened to. We have too long listen to them. This nearly ruined the EU.





And the example Google from above you can add Microsoft, Amazon, Apple and a lot of others. They used in my opinion illegal deals offered by tax dumping countries. They use all the tricks to reduce their taxes by shifting around, R&D, sales, franchising tricks etc.

This shouldn't be allowed to them. In whole Europe these company taxes should only to be allowed to be in a small band. Just for example 25% +/- 3% ...
This would be to avoid tax dumping, but still allows to have a variety of tax rates adjusting to specific national needs.

On the other hand if Google and Microsoft wants to have his European headquater in Ireland why should I be angry it is not in Germany? No need to be angry about this.

[andrat2000]

As you probably know, the in the 80's the EU was 40% of global trade, now it is 20%.

Mainly because the rest of the world (i.e. the BRICS countries and the MINT countries) have grown their economies; the pie is bigger, so the EU's piece of the pie is slightly smaller, even as its absolute volume remains the same or even bigger.

Don't come with actual knowledge ... ;-)

[Hiram]

You are poorly informed. Oh dear, very bad informed. Deutsche Bank had no bail out and VW neither. VW pays it's bills themselves for cheating. And last quarter was one of the most successful again.

I said would, not did.  By all means look this up yourself.  Deutsche Bank is definitely in trouble. I thought this was common knowledge, ah well, not to you obviously.

Really only old metal bashing?

OK, that was a bit harsh.

That's why I support what french president Macron just said (beside reforming France) about reforming the EU.

But he is planing to sack 120,000 public sector workers - he is after a former Rothschild banker. As for EU reform, I have my doubts that all 27 will agree, especially looking at how different these counties are.

On the other hand if Google and Microsoft wants to have his European headquater in Ireland why should I be angry it is not in Germany? No need to be angry about this.

Its because corporation tax in Ireland is lower than in Germany. Same with Luxenbourg, firms go where the tax is lower.  There are lots that do this, eBay, Google, McDonalds, the list goes on.  I do agree mind - it should be stopped.

Anyway, I think this thread has gone about as far as it can for me, so I'll make this my last.

PS VW - still oh dear!