[pedonbio]

And it seems only Christianity (in some form or another) is the only faith that is subject to criticism. No one ever tells the Jainists to lighten up, or the believers in Shinto that their faith is silly.

You mean both the Jains still left?

I leave the Shinto question to our Japanese members, but IMHO a religion based on worship of a dude who wears glasses is a form of self-satire.

[3deroticer]

My old Chinese GF took an interest in Christianity to get to know me more? I' m not sure why but I tried my best and end up scaring her. She did not like the concept of letting Christ/father/holy spirit in your body. To her that sound like possession of your body! More she learn about Christian ritual, the scarier it got. I never really thought about how weird it must sound to someone who wasn't raise on it from childhood.

[Galidan]

Most notably, and in direct opposition to almost every single other faith on the planet, Christians cannot earn their way to salvation.  Salvation is a gift...and once received, it must still be recognized as a gift.  There is nothing.. absolutely Nothing that a Christian can do to earn their way into heaven.  Every time a Christian reads or hears something about someone "just being a good person" or "donating something" or "thinking positive thoughts" or "treating others with mercy" or "becoming spiritual" or "finding your center" or a million other action verbs that infer that the person themselves is the causal agent behind their own redemption, it is considered a direct lie and demeaning to the "actual" sacrifice that their Lord did for them.

The way this is worded(And understand I'm not trying to twist your words) would suggest that there is no give and take in a person's relationship with God. That isn't true. The idea of grace is that God has provided us with salvation, that we have not earned it. And indeed, for what salvation is, there is nothing anyone could do make for an equal exchange. Still, God does demand things of us, and in that way you could say that we are made to work for our salvation.

“What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, 'You have faith; I have deeds.'
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,' and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
James 2:14-26

[sidewalkpsycho]

If we're all God's children, then what's so special about Jesus?

[DruulEmpire]

SWP, if I were to describe my personal faith in exact terms, I think I would not call myself "Christian" -- in any sense of "This is the only way and must triumph over all other ways" -- so much as "Christocentric."  Christ occupies the center of my spiritual universe -- but the center isn't everything.  For me this all gets to be a little like saying "You can have a brain but no heart ... okay, a heart but no brain ... all right then, a heart AND a brain but no lungs, final offer."  I personally suspect that God is not a fool and that our diversity of faith may serve some later purpose.  All I can say is that I looked around and Christ just seems to resonate best with me.

Weirdly enough, I think my smattering of Buddhism helped me to choose Christocentrism.  I find I do not relate nearly so well to the Buddha, who strikes me as a bit too aloof and abstract, as I do to the Buddhist concept of the bodhisattva, the soul which has the option of ascending to nirvana but instead chooses to remain with humanity.  I suppose you could say that Christ fascinates me as a kind of supreme bodhisattva.   

[Belle]

@Galidan,

You are right.

If righteousness=R, faith=F & works=W then,

R=F+W not R=F nor R=W.

Interestingly enough, algebraically, does R-F=W?  Well yes, indeed.. it does.  But the works are empty, because the faith is missing from the Righteousness of the worker.  Let us look at Oprah or any other huge philanthropist.  Is what they are doing a wonderful thing?  Yes.  Will what they are doing help their eternal soul in any way shape or form if it is done outside of the will of the Father.  No.
Ouch.  You gotta be kidding me?    Unfortunately, no.  This goes for everyone.  It really doesn't matter what you do for the good of mankind (IN TERMS of your soul) if you are missing the key to the puzzle.  Sorry, works, by themselves don't earn you nothin'.  Humans aren't 'tall' enough to see the playing board.  We need the Master to help guide our steps.  And not just any ol' Master.. see it is of key importance that our faith be one that relies on grace, otherwise you are back trying to guide your own footsteps again.. and that doesn't work.. your Faith (F) cannot be compromised by yourself (f) as it is in all other religions.  R ≠ f + W.  It's gotta be the good F for the equation to work.

How about F=R-W?  Faith alone is like neutering your Righteousness of its ability to act.  It's a gun without a bullet.  And it doesn't matter how big your faith is, if you don't do anything with it.  It's a XXX bra with no breasts to fill it.  Now if that doesn't make you sad, I don't know what does. 

And yes, there is "give and take" in the relationship.. but not the same sort of "give and take" we have with our mortal relationships.

[pedonbio]

Make of it what you will, the theology speaks for itself:

[Feral]

I'm more interested in why Christians believe their religion to be the true one. I grew up in a Christian home, attended church and went to a Christian school. But when I really thought about it, I couldn't say why I thought my religion was true and others were just myths. I was a Christian because I was told that was the right one from birth, but now I can't be sure. Maybe if I take more time to study the tenets of other faiths I can finally know.

That's not an easy one to answer or explain. And I don't know if there is a consensus either.

I don't understand why people who aren't religious use logic traps and the simple argument that religious folks aren't omnipotent and don't have ALL the answers as a reason to undermine their faith and as proof they are wrong. Yet an atheist has yet to explain all of life's great mysteries either. As people we all struggle with the how's and why's of the world.

[3deroticer]

Think about why people are Republican or Democrat when neither party serve the peoples interest. Tradition from family tend to build loyalties of the team that would bring them together. Sports, religion and politics seem to have that nice tailgate party for the family, and unaware of what they were rooting for other than the color they all wore for the game. Personally I think they been yelling "Rah Rah go christian" for so long that they got caught up in it with dedication to that one thing. If it makes them feel good, it's good to go, but if they make all others not worthy of respect, then they have a problem.

[Belle]

..If it makes them feel good, it's good to go, but if they make all others not worthy of respect, then they have a problem.

There's a little girl at our church who is 2 years old that has leukemia and may not ever see her 3rd birthday.  Her parents haven't become bitter towards Christ because it doesn't "feel" good anymore or because it isn't "good to go".   They're not honestly concerned with making other religions or faiths "not worthy of respect". 

On the whole, most Christians aren't attending some sort of religious superbowl tailgate party on Sunday morning.  They are gathering together to provoke each other to good works, learning and praising.  Together they lean on each other, garner support for their pain and pray together about each other and others.  They celebrate the good things.

Any analogy to a cheerleading atmosphere simply falls flat in the light of the true reality of what these "real" people are going through.  People who have been beat down, crushed and hurt by this crazy world.  In Christ they find hope and peace, not some sort of blind tradition or mindless routine.

[Belle]

Make of it what you will, the theology speaks for itself:

Uh... Christ didn't promise that.

Otherwise, it's funny.

[3deroticer]

There's a little girl at our church who is 2 years old that has leukemia and may not ever see her 3rd birthday.  Her parents haven't become bitter towards Christ because it doesn't "feel" good anymore or because it isn't "good to go".   They're not honestly concerned with making other religions or faiths "not worthy of respect". 

On the whole, most Christians aren't attending some sort of religious superbowl tailgate party on Sunday morning.  They are gathering together to provoke each other to good works, learning and praising.  Together they lean on each other, garner support for their pain and pray together about each other and others.  They celebrate the good things.

Any analogy to a cheerleading atmosphere simply falls flat in the light of the true reality of what these "real" people are going through.  People who have been beat down, crushed and hurt by this crazy world.  In Christ they find hope and peace, not some sort of blind tradition or mindless routine.

I was responding the question of why do people think their religion is the true one.

When referring to their religion then I think you do think of it as a brand name and blindness devotion because a true religion isn't branded and own by a team. It belong to all.

As long as we all have free will, then who to say their religion is better than yours? Personally I think whatever religion that helps you to be the best that you can be is a pretty good religion. It's really is a personal thing between you and your belief. Even in your brand of religion, not all congregation think alike.

To me, each brand of church is a local community fellow-shipping of like mindset of working together for a good cause. If I happen to live in India and there was no christian church, I would seek whatever resource for an open fellow-shipping with my neighbor and love one another in that church or sanctuary that is working lovingly with the community. Someone mention by the fruit of the tree, and that actually a good indicator to go by if that brand of church is right for you.

But I am not going to get caught up with a brand name of the church like a football game with cheerleaders, going door to door and tell you that you are in the wrong church, and tell you that you need to be save with my church. I think that is what I called blind devotion.

[3deroticer]

Same with politics! rather than look at party affiliation, I look at the candidate first and see what they as individual stand for.

[100ProofBE]

Honestly, I don't think it's possible for religion to "lose the debate".  Religion isn't about thinking, it's about feeling - and you can't debate feelings.  I think that's a big part of what's so very frustrating to us atheists: it doesn't matter how logical or sound your argument is, you cannot get through to a person who has their heart set on religion.  Now I must (ashamedly) admit to having been one of those asshats who did things like refer to God as "your imaginary friend" while in the midst of heated debate.  Overall, I believe religion is limiting and a has had a strongly negative impact on humanity.  Nevertheless, I have occasionally met radiantly spiritual folks who have shown me that my distaste for religion need not - and should not- extend to a distaste for the individuals who carry such beliefs.  There are good and bad people of every description, after all.

Pretty much this. As an atheist and someone with let's say an acute knowledge of religious text, history, and culture, there is nothing you can say to "convert" a believer. You can point out dogmatic inconsistencies, explain the origin of biblical stories, and quote biblical contradictions until you're blue in the face but you simply can't logically talk someone out of an argument that they didn't logically talk themselves in to. It's one of the fundamental tenets of debate. I'll still engage a particularly overzealous kid every once in a while if the mood strikes, but my days of proselytizing are long since past.

Over the years, I've mellowed a lot and recognize that whatever helps people live a happy, fulfilling life and prevents them from being assholes is just dandy with me. Sure you're gonna get the suicide bombers, Westboro Baptist shitheads, and Zionists, but that has less to do with religion and more to do with ignorance and people just being assholes. Human beings don't need religion to be dickheads. Frankly I loathe arrogant, militant atheists more than I do the worst evangelical.... the evangelical may be patently wrong, but he's just making himself look like a buffoon. The militant atheists are buffoons and make me look like a buffoon by proxy for agreeing with them. I still cringe every time an athlete thanks God for helping them win the big game and smile every time I see a "Jesus is the reason for the season" bumper sticker, but life's too short to get worked up over ultimately fruitless quibbles.

Anywho...

I don't understand why people who aren't religious use logic traps and the simple argument that religious folks aren't omnipotent and don't have ALL the answers as a reason to undermine their faith and as proof they are wrong. Yet an atheist has yet to explain all of life's great mysteries either. As people we all struggle with the how's and why's of the world.

I've yet to meet an atheist who argues that people of faith are wrong because they aren't omnipotent and don't have all the answers... and I can assure you I've met a LOT of them. Your mileage may vary, but I can assure you that any man of reason who thinks that is a valid argument is a terrible scientist.

People of reason use logic traps because that's how intellectual arguments have been conducted since the time of Socrates. Any theory/statement is tested by putting it up to the rigors of logical inquiry and the scientific method. Religion never has and never will pass those tests. Faith, by its very nature, is illogical. Does that make it invalid? To some. Does it negate the power of your belief? Not if your faith is strong.

Jesus, it's 2 in the morning. Enough for one evening...

[Klcarsite]

Another point of view...