[redtalon11]

Reduction ....BAD!   BADBADBADBADBADBADBADBADBADBAD!!!!

Oh, sorry.  Had a slight lose of control there for a second.  
Don't get me wrong.  There are definite medical reasons for the procedure...in some cases.  Too many, though are simply done for asthetic reasons that are far too often a reaction to negative feedback from the public.

I think the money spent on those reduction surgeries would be better spent on education.  
You know, like:
-getting bra manufacturers to standardize sizes.
-teaching women to wear the correct sizes so they don't have physical problems resulting from wearing bras that don't fit and support correctly.
-teaching tolerance to the general public in accepting busty women as "normal" and curbing the jealousy factor of non-busty women.
-including busty women in "main-stream" entertainment for their performing talents instead of just their appearance which in turn would broaden the public view of "beauty" as more than just the waif-model.


Tolerance and acceptance.  That's what it's all about.  If we could all just learn a little of that, teach a little of that, we'd all be happier and we'd all have happy, busty women who like themselves and their assets instead of seeing them as burdens.  
Am I right?  Will this ever happen or am I just dreaming here?

Like I said, it's my new cause.  I plan to become incredibly rich, start some massive corporation that controls several media outlets (think Ted Turner) and start changing the public's opinion on beauty.  

Ok...I'm done....my soapbox is starting to creak so I'll get off of it now.  Tell me what you think.

Red Talon
   

[Tux]

Actually I thought that Larry Flynt was trying to do that.

[MunchWolf]

I have no views on this subject right now ... I just wanted to brag that I got to hang out with a nicely endowed female in a tight lycra outfit this evening ...

-Munch "It came just up to ( _ v _ ) here" Wolf

[Tux]

I could say that I did the same Friday at the beach (and that's true), but she wasn't wearing Lyrca, though her tight t and short jean shorts were good enough for me (especially when it got a little colder and her nipples were showing distinctly through her shirt while she just happened to be on all fours).

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I completely agree with you. I think breast reductions should be banned.

There are 2 women I know that seriously looking at breast reductions. One's a HH cup and the other is a J cup.

Both have incredible breasts, and both are doing it for purely cosmetic reasons :-(

It's such a tradegy. It's like the Egyptians wanting to reduce the size of the pyramids.

[Connoisseur]

Red Talon,

You've broached a very serious subject.  Since the mid 90's I've been checking out the "before and after" breast reduction photos at various cosmetic surgery sites throughout the Web.  It used be that only extremely large-breasted women were having reductions.  Now it's very common to see women who appear to be no larger than a C-cup having their tits lopped off.

In other words, physical discomfort has become progressively less important as a motivation for breast reduction.  Today, it seems to me, psychological discomfort has become at least as important.  And while there might once have been a time when a surgeon would have referred a patient with obvious emotional problems to a psychologist,  today surgeons face stiff competition.  They'll reduced A-cup breasts as long as they get their $4000.  Insurance companies are also, for reasons that I'm at a loss to understand, more willing to fund this kind of butchery.


The answer to psychological discomfort, besides increasing tit acceptance as you've suggested, is to somehow make big tits "cool".  I don't have the foggiest notion as to how to accomplish this.  Anybody have any ideas?

The answer to physical discomfort, in addition to the bra education program that you've proposed, is to design and create a superior bra.   I'm serious.  We probably have enough techno geeks on this site to start up a decent BEA Research and Development department.  If we could get a hugely endowed lady to volunteer to be our test model, we could build a prototype for her.  Then we'd have a way of working out the bugs in the design.  Who knows? There might even be a little money in it.

Go get'em Talon.  Just remember that line from the original Star Trek:  "In every revolution there's one man with a vision."

Connoisseur
   

[BP]

I've been flamed badly for this opinion, but I think you guys are full of it. Live in the shoes of a big-busted women for a year and see how you feel about it. I mean, sure, I love big busts, and I was heart-broken when a busty friend of mine got reduction surgery. But that's not the point. A better bra isn't going to do the job. She had suffered from serious back pain since her early teens and bad bras weren't the problem.

But moreover, she had gotten sick and tired of all the jerks in the world ogling her, making rude, disgusting comments, treating her like a piece of meat. I don't think you guys understand what's its like to be treated this way -- how emotionally damaging it is, even if you try not to pay attention. And I guarentee you that she (and others) didn't see the surgery as "**13**." She feels more comfortable in her own skin than she ever has before.

I'm often shocked at the level of insensivity in opinions expressed here.

Let me reiterate: I love busty woman. I love looking at them. I love big breasts. But that doesn't give me -- or any of you -- the right to decide what's best for a woman who's lived with them her whole life.  

[miasma]

As long as groups of men don't start gathering in front of doctor offices blocking entry to people going for breast reductions.

[Connoisseur]

BP,

I don't think that anyone here wants women to suffer.  However, it should be clear that much of the suffering that large-breasted women currently endure is entirely unnecessarily.   Were the sources of this unnecessary suffering neutralized, far fewer breast reduction surgeries would occur.  That should be our goal.  

There are two classes of suffering endured by the large-breasted -- psychological and physical.  The psychological discomfort can be entirely relieved by changing the woman's attitude or by changing society.  These are difficult objectives, but not unattainable.   Red Talon has rightly advocated attempts to do so.  

Consider this analogy: Using surgery to deal with the psychological strain of being large-breasted is like using skin whitener to deal with the psychological strain of being Black.   I prefer instead what actually occurred over the last couple of generations – Blacks lost most of their feelings of inferiority and Whites became more tolerant.

Regarding a large-breasted woman's physical discomfort, you're correct in believing that a conventionally designed bra is likely to do little to ease the discomfort that an exceedingly well-endowed woman will experience. [Although changing to the correct bra size will do wonders for woman with somewhat smaller breasts.]  There's no reason, however, to restrict ourselves to the conventional bra design, which, obviously, is woefully inadequate for larger loads.  The new design would probably involve such things as support from below the breasts, counter weights (or balancing counter tensions) on the woman's back, and even a microprocessor-based warning system to alleviate posture-induced strain.

It short, I think that Red Talon's crusade -- to eliminate the unnecessary suffering of the large-breasted and thus reduce breast reductions – is hardly insensitive.  On the contrary, it is not unlike the compassionate struggle for Negro social equality of the mid-twentieth century.

Connoisseur
   

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Red Talon, You have hit upon a subject near and dear to my heart. The whole tolerance/acceptance issue is a very tough one for those of us that actually live with a big bosom every day. What is the solution??? I wish I knew. It has been discussed on this forum before, the fact that the problem is primarily women disliking other women based only on the fact that some of us are busty. How do you solve that??
All women have to become more accepting of our bodies....(yea, right).  

I went through hell, growing up as well endowed teenager. The other girls called me names and did nasty things to me DESPITE the fact that I hid by chest as well as I could. It seems deeply ingrained in our culture to dislike anyone who is different. I still put up with women's nasty looks and comments every day. I just got used to it, and developed a thicker skin. Would making big breasts appear more "mainstream" help acceptance??? I don't know, but it would be worth a try. I would love to see a woman like me appear in a movie and NOT be a prostitute or a stripper. I'm not holding my breath.......

The bra thing.....I actually tried to invent a better bra once...it was a miserable failure, but it might have been my lack of inventive skills, LOL. What I have found, though is that if one shops around with patience and persistence, one can find a bra that fits, supports, and is comfortable, even in my size. They are very expensive, but worth every cent. I think this is the biggest reason busty women complain of pain....I had back and shoulder pain too, until I found the right bras for me.

As far as reduction surgery goes, I think it has it's place, but seems to be way overused. My sister is scheduled to get a reuction next month, and I don't think she should be prevented from doing it, but I have to wonder how many cup sizes she would drop if she lost the 30 pounds she gained after having two children. I love her, and I don't want her to make a mistake, but she's a grownup, and will make her own decisions. I am scared to death of B/R sugery, and will likely never have it, but it would be nice if our culture was a bit more accepting of women like me. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've been asked, "Why haven't you gotten a reduction?"

I guess what I as saying is, thank you for getting up on your soapbox on our behalf, it's very sweet of you....but don't be surprised when nothing changes. I've been wishing for the same things for 15 years now, and haven't seen much progress in the general attitude toward busty women, especially BY other women. It seems we are our own worst enemy.  

[Connoisseur]

I sympathize with you about your sister, Irish Girl.  My sister had a reduction a few years ago.   She was only a C-cup.   It seems that she came under the influence of the trendy Hollywood types for whom she worked. [She was on the crew of a TV sitcom.]   If the surgeon had been ethical, he would have referred my sister – not the most mentally stable person on the planet – to a psychiatrist.  I can't imagine that a reputable surgeon in, say, the 1940s would, purely for money, have reduced breasts that were only a bit larger than average.  

So while it sounds like your sister is motivated by physical discomfort, mine was entirely motivated by the psychological strain of being a bit different [i.e. being unfashionably and undiplomatically bustier than the prima donna star of this TV show.]
   

[Monique]

I agree with Irish Girl when it comes to women being our own worst enemies when it comes to the issue of being large busted.  A group of women can either be wonderful and supportive friends or horrible catty bitches.  

Growing up large busted is very difficult.  It is something that is picked on and commented about when a young woman is still so unsure of her body that it can cause alot of emotional pain.  While I am not as large chested as many of the women here I remember being a D cup when I was 14 and never wearing a shirt that fit me as I didnt want the snickers and comments of my peers.  Girls AND boys at that stage.  To this day I still tend to wear shirts that are to large to camouflage the fact that I have breasts that are larger than the norm.  I am looking to hopefuly go to a bigger cup size though as I think I could carry it off ......as I am starting, at this stage in my life to appreciate my own breasts and enjoy having them.
 
As for women who dont have large breasts getting reductions......I would think that some of them truly dont enjoy having breasts as large as they do have, even if it is only a C cup.  For every woman that wishes she had larger breasts I am sure there is a woman who doesnt care to have them.  They can be a burden or burdensome.  I know that there are days when I finish work and find that my back would like to just crumple up from strain.    

Also I do think that for every man here who loves big breasts there is a man out there who prefers small, petite perky ones.  Each person should do only what makes them comfortable with themselves as nobody else can live their lives for them.  If we all want tolerance for having big breasts than we have to be willing to give it to women who dont.  Seems simple to me when you look at it that way.  

[Connoisseur]

Monique said:

"I do think that for every man here who loves big breasts there is a man out there who prefers small, petite perky ones."

I'm not so sure about this.  While I can think of dozens of magazines and websites that celebrate large breasts, I don't think that there are as many magazines/sites devoted to small perky breasts.  I'm sure that you're right about there being men who love small breasts.  But those guys are vastly outnumbered by admirers of large-breasted women.

[Say you had to invest your life's savings in one of two men's magazines: Small Ultra-Perky Breasts or Ultra-Gigantic Breasts.  In which case would you be better able to **82** at night?]

   

[redtalon11]

Yeah, I know.  It's a pipe dream and short of global mass-hypnosis, there is no way to change the attitudes of millions or even billions of people.  That's not the point.  

I'm currently in the process of trying to undo the ravages of years of ridicule that have made my wife hate her wonderful, ample bosom.  She mentioned the dreaded "R" word which is why I went on this particular rant in the first place.  I encourage her and compliment her and try to explain to her how beautiful she is...with large breasts.  It's going slowly but I think it might someday find root in her psyche to accept who she is and maybe...just maybe start to enjoy them as much as I obviously do.  And on a selfish note, if she does reach that level of awareness and positive outlook, maybe I can enjoy them more myself because she will be more accepting of my attentions and worship of her.  

I hope to teach my [censored] to accept who they are and to accept others for who they are without judging them on their appearance.  I try to explain to my friends my feelings about this and ask them to make an effort to have a little more tolerance and self-control when meeting a busty woman.
If I can make a small difference in my own little corner of the world, maybe it will grow.  

I don't see anything substantial changing in the public persona in my lifetime but if I at least make an effort in my own circle, maybe it will grow over time.  A generation or two down the road may see major changes for the better.  Who knows.  I'm still going to try.  

As mentioned above, I did say there are valid reasons for reduction surgery.  There are valid reasons for any woman of any size to do anything they wish.  In my opinion, however, far too many women are having major, expensive body altering surgeries for all of the wrong reasons.  THAT is what I would try to abolish were I the omnipotent being I would have to be to accomplish it.  As far as I'm concerned, to each his own.  I'm just tired of hearing about women trying to comform to the "norm" because of the insensitivity and injustices that they have had to endure for something such as body shape that they have no control over short of surgery.  

There, another two-cents.  

Red Talon    

[Monique]

I personally know of 3 men who prefer no more than C cup.  I am sure that that doesnt mean that if they were interested in a woman with larger breasts they would blow them off for that one reason.  Its all just personal preference....I think that sometimes being at a site that appreciates and showcases large busts its easy to forget that while, perhaps, most men prefer them....not ALL do.  Why....I dont know.  As a woman I feel that larger breasts are more attractive and feminine.  Although, and I may be criticized for this idea, some breasts seem simply to large for the person they are on.  And other smaller breasts may be the 'perfect' shape and look fantastic on the woman who posesses them.  

While there may not be scores of magazines devoted to smaller breasts......its probably because there doesnt 'need' to be.  Have you turned on the t.v. lately?  Have you looked through a 'normal' magazine?  It is difficult to see any form of advertising, movies, etc. that doesnt show some sort of breasts.  Seems to me that most are average size and many of them are perky. :-)  I would think men who prefer smaller breasts wouldnt need specialty magazines when everywhere you turn you get pictures, movies, commercials, etc. that show them already.  Is it fair, no.  Is it right that larger breasts arent as commonly shown...perhaps not.  

If I had to invest my life savings in a magazine....it probably wouldnt involve breasts at all as I own a pair and should I want to view some need only to look down.  '-)