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DTM

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #180 on: January 17, 2002, 05:51:00 PM »
I just happened to have saved this portion of the original post. I had sent it to a Russian model I know for her thoughts on this. But never got a reply. You realize it's been over 8 month's already. We still don't know any more than we did back then.

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Her name is Yulia NOVA. http://www.tokyotopless.co.jp/model/YuliaNOVA/01/  http://www.tokyotopless.co.jp/model/YuliaNOVA/02/
Enjoy!

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Takao KUDO - Tokyo Topless Webmaster http://www.tokyotopless.co.jp/
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Wow!!! Absolutly fantastic!!! A new star is born. She will be big both
in¨the east and west in a matter of months. Thanks a lot for great update.
MrHHH
Forum Regular   posted 04-19-2001 09:55 PM
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Absolutely amazing. Hey guys, she's Russian, and if you follow the link back
to her site she's got THREE videos out.
Wonder how old she is.

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>Wonder how old she is.
18 years old.

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Takao KUDO - Tokyo Topless Webmaster http://www.tokyotopless.co.jp/


Uncle Stupid
Member   posted 04-20-2001 01:19 AM
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She is WONDERFUL! Ochen krasivaya dyevushka! I tak bolshiye grudi!
Thank you thank you thank you for sharing her with us! Do let us know when
you know more about her!
Uncle Stupid


test8test
Member   posted 04-20-2001 09:45 AM
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wow, follow this link http://russian-b.com/


magic
Forum Regular   posted 04-20-2001 10:38 AM
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Thank you, very nice!
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magically Yours, magic


[email protected]
Forum Regular   posted 04-20-2001 01:19 PM
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To: UncSt - She's from the house of homeless [censored] ren from Izjevsk - the
capital of Udmurtiya (one of big russian provinces).
As far as I known, she was bought (!) there by porno-dealers from Moscow 1
year ago, and now she dances the private dances at "Up-Down Casino-Bar" on
Gorky Street in Moscow.
Even more, maybe one day she will have a chance to become a wife/girl-friend
of one of criminal new russians or to immigrate abroad of Russia.
Vospitannitsa detskogo doma iz Udmurtii, naskolko mne izvestno.

Uncle Stupid
Member   posted 04-20-2001 02:05 PM
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Wow. Well, that's certainly unfortunate and definitely a sign of the times
in Russia. Gads. I feel less enthusiastic about her career now,
unfortunately. I'll have to think on this at greater length to figure out
how I feel about it. What a pity, her whole situation!
Uncle Stupid

(Providing, of course, that all this is true. I'll take your word for it
until I hear/read otherwise; I don't wanna be the chump who believes
everything he's told, but it sounds plausible.)


Uncle Stupid
Member   posted 04-20-2001 02:16 PM
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Spacibo za vasha informatsiya. Ksozhalenyu eta sostayaniya bolshe
obuiknovenaya v rossi.
Uncle Stupid

(Izvenitye mnye pozhaluista, mozhet buit maya grammatica ochen plokhaya!)


[email protected]
Forum Regular   posted 04-20-2001 02:45 PM
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As concerning your text - it's not such a big problem - your text is
understandable.
Anyway, as concerning this young girl,- as you can see, most of her photos
were made in big and very expensive flats of Moscow - the price (minimum) of
one flat of this kind is about 450-600.000 USD net.
Now you should add about 250.000 USD to buy the furniture that you can see
on these photos, etc.
Finally you can understand that this girl or her father can't be the owner
of this flat. Like a conclusion - she makes photos there being at the same
time the girl-friend of owner of this flat (or of his son), or his potential
wife. Because now in Russia becomes more and more popular the idea of
"personal wife creation" - very reach men choose the attractive 7-10 years
old girl (or older) and transforms her into photo-model. These girls have an
excellent education (the have one or two high educations, they can easily
speak 3-5 foreign languages, they are well educated and formated, etc.). And
finally, 6-10 years later, they become wifes of theirs owners.
It's easy even for foreigner, for people coming from abroad of Russia, to
buy the [censored] ren by this mode, because in russian province it will cost
about 4-5.000 USD for reach foreigner from Europe or from USA to buy the
**09** and to transport it abroad of Russia.
Even more, the parents are happy to sell theirs [censored] ren to foreigners,
because they know, that themselfs they can't give a good education to theirs
children and to prevent them from bad influence of drugs, criminals, etc.
As also the most usual exists a big probability, that abroad these [censored] ren
will be happier than in their native country, because only the reach people
can afford to themselfs to buy [censored] ren like this.

Runneth
Forum Regular   posted 04-20-2001 11:18 PM
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Shadowcom -- Thank you very much for providing such interesting and
significant information about this undeniably beautiful young woman. If I
understand you correctly, and if what you say about Yulia is correct, then
she lives in what is essentially a condition of opulent slavery. Could we
therefore infer that she is quite possibly being forced (or at least
pressured) to pose for these photographs against her will?


[email protected]
Forum Regular   posted 04-21-2001 01:28 AM
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To Runneth: You see, the "opulent slavery" is not a good definition for
that, because in reality it's not a slavery. She can leave anytime she
wants, but in that case she'll stay without any money and opportunity to
live in Moscow. And for her it means death. That's why, she'll never leave
her "boss". Even more, she does not want to leave him (even if he's cruel),
because potentially he can give her anything she wants, and she does not
need in anything, if we compare her life and the life of the ordinary girls
of her age.
At the same time, if you compare the possible look (price) of her clothes
and the possible look (price) of the flat there the pictures of her were
made, you'll see, that her clothes are ... very cheap even for russian
standards if we compare their quality and style to the style of flat. This
means that she is very dependent of her boss and she does not have a lot of
money.
But she's not forced against her will to make the pictures of this kind and
to pose for photographs. It's evident. Because, as you can see it, she does
it with pleasure,- just look at her face. Maybe the situation for her will
change in some months or years, but for now for her it's only a single
opportunity to live in big Moscow flat and to keep the favour of her boss.


Runneth
Forum Regular   posted 04-21-2001 10:51 AM
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Let's see if I understand this right. You say that although Yulia is
literally bought and paid for, it's not slavery because she can leave "any
time she wants"--keeping in mind, of course, that leaving would mean
"death."
You say she does not want to leave her "boss" (i.e. her Mafia pimp) even if
he's cruel, for she is very dependent on him. For example, he keeps her in
his rich Moscow apartment and buys her cheap clothes--and presumably feeds
her cheap food too--perhaps from the money she brings in by posing for
photos (and who knows what else).

You add that the fact that she manages to smile seductively in some of her
photographs is proof that she has not been forced to pose for them. I
presume you are joking. Right?

Perhaps your definition of "slavery" differs from mine.

turbo
Member   posted 04-21-2001 11:30 AM
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Tokyo Topless lists this new busenwunder as "Yulia Nova" but the
russian-b.com website names her "Yuria Nova".
Yulia or Yuria - what are we going to call her?

[email protected]
Forum Regular   posted 04-21-2001 11:42 AM
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To Runneth: Well, to understand correctly the word "slavery" it will be
enough to see the life of illegal asian, etc. immigrates in USA, Western
Europe or in any asiatic country of South-East (Thailand, etc.). This - this
really means slavery.
And the life of Yulia-like girls does not have anything common with it.
These girls are completely happy to have the life-style like this.
To Turbo: Her russian name is Yulia (you can see the cyrillic version of it
at the same place). Certainly - "NOVA" is her surname.

goober
Forum Regular   posted 04-21-2001 01:03 PM
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Every girl should be so lucky.

[email protected]
Forum Regular   posted 04-21-2001 02:12 PM
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To Goober:

Retief
Forum Regular   posted 04-21-2001 03:09 PM
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Re Yuria vs Yulia: Japanese has a sound roughly like the "r" sound of
Spanish and Italian, and it is used to approximate the English (and
Russian?) "r" and "l" sounds both. (You've heard the supposedly true story
of the menu in Tokyo that offered "flied lice", right?) That makes
re-transliterating from the kana used for her name a bit problematic;
apparently someone got it wrong this time. There's a similar problem with
"b" vs "v", which could have further bollixed things...

Runneth
Forum Regular   posted 04-21-2001 04:47 PM
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Shadowcom.
Let us set aside our disagreement about the definition of the word
"slavery." I do not want us to get hung up on semantics.

Yes, I know a thing or two about the lives of the other groups you have
mentioned. No matter how bad things are, one can always point to others
(including in my own country, the U.S.A.) who have it worse. That does not
change the appalling specifics of Yulia's situation.

You say she was sold as a [censored] to porn dealers who set her up in the sex
trade, and that she may even be re-sold to some rich Moscow criminal who
will house her, educate her, etc., on the condition that she become his
live-in concubine (whore). She will have to take this man for her civil
husband whether she wants to or not.

She really has no self-determination, or dignity, or choice in the matter,
does she? You say (in a stunning bit of self-contradiction) that she is
"free" to leave her owners whenever she wants, but that leaving would mean
"death."

Finally (either to "please" her owners or to protect herself from the likely
consequences of refusal) she poses for porn videos, performs "private
dances" in Gorky Street strip clubs, and God knows what else.

Yes, she has a place to live, food to eat, etc. (expenses that undoubtedly
cost but a tiny fraction of the money she brings in for her "owners"). But
it is absolutely ludicrous to assume that Yulia is happy with her lot in
life when (if what you say is correct) she has never had any choice in the
matter.

You must know very well, Shadowcom, that there are better ways for rich
people in a poor country to help those less fortunate than themselves
(including those who do not happen to be nubile busty young girls).

Incredibly, you write: "These girls are completely happy to have the
life-style like this."

I would not believe such a statement if it came from Yulia herself. For how,
in such a situation, could she be free to say what she really thinks? She
had better keep quiet and do what she's told, if she knows what's "good" for
her.

And Takao from the Tokyo Topless website informs us (with a little "wink"
icon) that she's 18 years old.

Right.

Goober says it well: "Every girl should be so lucky."

If what you say about Yulia's life situation is correct, then it follows
that to "enjoy" her photographs in the customary way is to be the
beneficiary of her personal and sexual abuse, and to tacitly endorse it as
being morally and civilly acceptable.

Therefore, I request that Moderator remove all photos of Yulia from the BEA
User Gallery and Members' Gallery.

The operators of the Tokyo Topless website should also do the same.

Of course I am not so naive as to believe that Yulia is the only woman
pictured on these sites who lives under such conditions. Nor do I know the
details of whether a website is actually violating any laws if they decide
to keep the pictures of Yulia. But one must begin somewhere, right?

If, that is, the owners and clientele of such sites wish to be able to think
of themselves as possessing the most basic sort of human decency.

[This message has been edited by Runneth (edited 04-21-2001).]

stevieg
Member   posted 04-21-2001 11:10 PM
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Does anyone know if we can order the videos in the USA? The www.russian-b.com  website is mostly in Japanese (I guess?).
Thanks

sheb
Forum Regular   posted 04-21-2001 11:47 PM
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mmmph. mmmph. mmmrph. mmph. (I promised not to say another word in another
thread, but the similarities are astounding.)

[email protected]
Forum Regular   posted 04-22-2001 01:29 AM
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To Runneth:
"Well, now we'll discuss the position of secret rebel base" (c) Star Wars
>You say she was sold as a [censored] to porn >dealers who set her up in the sex
trade, and >that she may even be re-sold to some rich >Moscow criminal who
will house her, educate >her, etc., on the condition that she become >his
live-in concubine (whore).

Correct.

>She will have to take this man for her civil >husband whether she wants to
or not.

Not correct.

>She really has no self-determination, or >dignity, or choice in the matter,
does
>she?

Not correct.

>You say (in a stunning bit of >self-contradiction) that she is "free" to
>leave her owners whenever she wants, but >that leaving would mean "death."

Correct. She can leave anytime. BUT, if you want live in Moscow, you should
have 1) job; 2) flat; 3) security support; 4) etc. Julia, as I said it
before, is from provincial city. She does not have any opportunity to find
the job in Moscow (she's not the Moscow citizen), except for the work in
bordel or something of this kind. And this means "death" for anyone - 1-5
years and this person will die (drugs, medical problems, criminals, etc.).
At the same time, if she comes back to her native city - she also does not
have any chance to find there any work, except for the "bordel-opportunity"
pointed above.
If I say "death" it does not mean that she will be killed, because she left
her boss. Do you understand ?

>Yes, she has a place to live, food to eat, >etc. (expenses that undoubtedly
cost
>but a tiny fraction of the money she brings >in for her "owners"). But it
is absolutely >ludicrous to assume that Yulia is happy with >her lot in life
when (if what you say is >correct) she has never had any choice in the
>matter.

If you don't know it yet,- in this country we all don't have any choice.
And Julia's situation is not worst, - you can be sure.
The main difference between her and other people in Russia is that someone
need in her (in her body, in her services, etc.).

>You must know very well, Shadowcom, that >there are better ways for rich
people in a >poor country to help those less fortunate >than themselves
(including those who do not >happen to be nubile busty young girls).

Emotions - emotions. Too many emotions. Who said, that someone helps to
someone ? Even more, in any country someone helps to someone ONLY if it
potentially brings him (or to his business) something in the future (this is
one of basical principles of business culture, dominating today across the
world). And it does not play any role, if it be USA, Russia, Uganda,
Zanzibar or any country else.

>Incredibly, you write: "These girls are >completely happy to have the
life-style
>like this."

Yes, and you can be sure, that she'll fight like a blessed cat (sorry) to
keep this situation (for example, if her boss finds any else girl) without
any changements. You can be sure, that she does not want change the
situation, because it this case she'll loose all that she has now.

>I would not believe such a statement if it >came from Yulia herself. For
how, in
>such a situation, could she be free to say >what she really thinks? She had
better keep >quiet and do what she's told, if she knows >what's "good" for
her.

Sorry, do you know the situation with these girls in Russia ? There are
thousands of them coming every year in Moscow and ending theirs lifes in
bordels or anythere else (it's even worse then Thailand). The girls like
Julia are exceptions. They've got theirs chances. Now the single thing that
they can do - they should use this chance at 100%. In 6-10 years they'll be
able to build thers lifes themselves - at this moment they'll have a
necessary knowledge, professional skill, culture level, etc. But before this
moment
(and they know it well) they are obliged to "play the role". If no ... - it
will not be the happy end.
However, for most of them it's not necessary to play the role, because the
life of this kind gives them all things they can want and even more.

You are right, she's 18 years old, etc. But, I kindly ask you to don't do
any stupidities and to don't ask Moderators to remove the photos of her from
the pointed sites. Because if you do it, you deprive Youlia of her future.
By this mode (photos, videos) she can become one day the porno star of
world-class (for the girls of this kind it's a single opportunity to build
theirs lifes) and to become finally independent, or even more - maybe to get
married with rich foreigner.
If her photos and K7 be removed from the Internet sites, well, she'll stay
in Moscow, in "Up-Down" Casino-bar, maybe she'll be a wife of criminal boss
and finally she'll finish her life like ...
You are always responsible for results of your actions.
And "human decency" is not a best mode to explain the necessity of actions
of this kind.

Dave
Member   posted 04-22-2001 12:56 PM
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Re; slave
Pronunciation: 'slAv
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Old French or Medieval Latin; Old
French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the
frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe
Date: 14th century
1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
A gilded cage is still a cage.

Brother Dave

[email protected]
Forum Regular   posted 04-22-2001 01:21 PM
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To: Dave
Completely wrong.  It's not a good source, and it's evident that you would
not use it to verify the etymology or the sense of this word. Here is the
interpretation of the word Slave-Esclave-Rab(rus), following the
Etymological and morphological dictionary by S.I.Ozghegov:
Slave-Esclave-Rab(rus):
1)In Society of exploitation: The persons dispossessed of all rights and
production assets and being the complete property of holder - mister,
disposing by his work and life.
2)General sense: The person, dependent, oppressed in conditions of Society
of exploitation.
3)The person, which wholly has subordinated to something his will and acts.
Well, you can see her, that the basical object here is "exploitation".
But we don't have it in Julia case. She's dependent, but not slave.

[email protected]
Forum Regular   posted 04-22-2001 01:22 PM
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To: Dave
Completely wrong.  It's not a good source, and it's evident that you would
not use it to verify the etymology or the sense of this word. Here is the
interpretation of the word Slave-Esclave-Rab(rus), following the
Etymological and morphological dictionary by S.I.Ozghegov:
Slave-Esclave-Rab(rus):
1)In Society of exploitation: The persons dispossessed of all rights and
production assets and being the complete property of holder - mister,
disposing by his work and life.
2)General sense: The person, dependent, oppressed in conditions of Society
of exploitation.
3)The person, which wholly has subordinated to something his will and acts.
Well, you can see her, that the basical object here is "exploitation".
But we don't have it in Julia case. She's dependent, but not slave.


Dave
Member   posted 04-22-2001 01:31 PM
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If not slavery, then it's indentured servitude. Is that any better?
I don't think so.

IP: Logged

zepher
Member   posted 04-22-2001 06:24 PM
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I am just as curious as stevieg. I could not find a place to buy the vids in
the USA. Might sound kind of shallow after all the other converstion. sorry.
DTM


Runneth
Forum Regular   posted 04-23-2001 09:40 AM
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Shadowcom, I must admit that your long posts are quite fascinating. Your
writing shows considerable depth and intelligence, and your reportorial
account rings true to what I've read and heard about conditions in
contemporary Russia. It honestly makes me wish we could have a long,
interesting conversation on some other subject.
But I'm sorry man, for not only does the picture you paint ring true--it
also rings repugnant.

I'm not interested in wasting time by arguing over a definition of the word
"slave," or in establishing whether Yulia, or Julia, is exactly a slave, an
indentured servant, or a serf. I'm content with saying that she is, for all
practical purposes, in a state of involuntary dependency. That is bad
enough.

You argue that her situation is better than that of most Russian citizens,
and depending on one's unit of measurement that may indeed be the case. But
I am already familiar with that argument. It is essentially the same one by
which some people would argue that I, a "rich American," should have no
qualms about buying a pair of basketball shoes made in a Phillippine
sweatshop. Of course I know that the dollar a day or whatever that those
workers get is, by Phillippine standards, a good gig. But the low pay in
relation to the profit made, combined with the lousy and unsafe conditions
in the factories, simply do not reach the minimum level needed to meet any
international standard of workers' rights.

Another example would be the arguments I used to hear from some people a few
years ago AGAINST boycotting the apartheid regime in South Africa. "If you
continue the boycott," so the argument ran, "the main victims will be the
rank-and-file black workers, who after all are trying to do the best they
can under the circumstances."

I do not expect rich Russians to help poor people by giving money away for
nothing. I comprehend the international principles of business well enough
to understand the motivation for merchandising photos and videos of a
beautiful young woman with a magnificent natural pair of bolshiye grudi. But
to make big money from selling pictures and videos of this woman, it is NOT
necessary to force her to be one's personal whore.

To return to my original point in this thread: Does Julia, PRACTICALLY
SPEAKING, have any real choice as to whether or not she poses for pictures?
If her only other alternative is to starve to death on the streets of
Moscow, then it's not really a choice, is it?

Second, does she get a reasonable share, or "cut," of the money that her
pictures, videos, and topless dancing bring in? Or is she forced to turn all
the money over to her bosses, who then buy her cheap clothes and control her
life while they live high on the profits?

One thing I like about Internet porn is that in the best of circumstances,
it gives women control over their own images. Fifteen years ago, a
well-endowed woman like Danni Ashe could pose for men's magazines, collect
her modeling fees, and that would be that. But now she is able to start her
own website, control how her own personal image is presented, keep the
profits, and become a multimillionaire. No feminist critic can rightly say
that Danni is being "exploited"--and not only can men enjoy her images
without guilt, but (in my opinion) they actually get a higher-quality
product. Danni has set a fine example that has been followed by other models
like Petra Verkaik, Julia Hayes, Kira the Little Redhead and countless
others. I say more power to them.

If Danni Ashe represents one extreme in the world of Internet porn, then
Yulia Nova represents the opposite extreme. She has no real control over how
her naked body is presented to the world, she does not get a fair share of
the profits, and she doesn't even receive a decent no-strings-attached
modeling fee. Nor does she enjoy the basic human right to live her life
unmolested or to decide for herself whom she will **82** with.

If a man forces a woman to choose between having sex with him or starving to
death on the streets of Moscow, then he is really committing the moral
equivalent of **14**. And I would not be at all surprised if Julia is
experiencing it in exactly that way.

Perhaps, being young and naïve, she is able to withstand such treatment by
believing in the delusion that it will eventually lead to independent fame
and fortune, or to meeting some rich foreign Prince Charming who will take
her away from the terrible conditions in Russia. But you and I both know
it's far more likely that she will be worked hard and exploited by her
bosses for another few years until the wrinkles appear and the bolshiye
grudi start to sag, at which time she will be cast aside in favor of
something younger and fresher.

No, I will not download pictures of Yulia Nova, even though I think she is
gorgeous. I've already been disgusted by what I've read about the behavior
of the Russian mafia, and this story makes it even more real, more
immediate. I will not take part in their trade, when there are so many other
pictures of women out there for me to look at.

I ask this question of anyone who reads this: When you look at a picture of
a naked woman, does it matter to you how she feels about showing you her
naked body? Do you care what she is experiencing? Do you give a shit whether
she is being abused or mistreated? In short, do you acknowledge her
humanity?

Understand, I am not saying one needs to be a bleeding-heart liberal about
this. It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. I am just
talking about basic standards of fairness...and, yes, human decency.

[This message has been edited by Runneth (edited 04-23-2001).]

sheb
Forum Regular   posted 04-23-2001 11:58 AM
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I guess you have one empty hard drive then, because everyone has a sob
story, including you.

Runneth
Forum Regular   posted 04-23-2001 02:02 PM
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Sheb, that is a truly pathetic attempt at rationalization.
Of course everyone has a "sob story." But if you think everyone's lot in
life is as bad as being violated and used in such a manner, then you're just
fooling yourself (or trying to).

Yet I do expect that many will try to rationalize it in just that way, so as
to convince themselves that they can buy videos of Yulia Nova without guilt
or complicity.

Of course it isn't possible to track down the back story of every picture
one sees on the Internet. But when the story jumps right out in your face as
this one has, then there is no excuse.


DDude
Member   posted 04-28-2001 05:40 PM
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Remember that long discussion about Chix with Dix? Now that was crazy!

steveo
Forum Regular   posted 04-29-2001 08:43 PM
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Hi-
Remember that long discussion about Chix with Dix?...

Yup, and that was a sick idea, but not as sick as slavery!

steveo

Billy Joe Caligula
Member   posted 04-30-2001 02:51 AM
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History is such a joke. Let's get this slavery thing in perspective, here.
The former Soviet Union is sliding back a bit toward a condition that was
way common, ages ago. Socialism was at the cutting edge of leaving it
behind. The Roman Empire's a pretty good example of that sort of condition:
People come into this world as trespassers. There is no 'right to life'.
(God bless the [censored] that's got his own...listen to that sarcastic old
song). What we consider rights these days were considered privileges darn
near universally, once. Try digging up the Greek myth about how the human
race used to have four legs and arms, and why they don't, now. The gods had
every right to wipe out mankind, and if man went too far, they would; as
above, so below. The Aztecs and Incas had a different flavor of the same
paradigm. Sometimes the roof needs patching, and sometimes you can't afford
it. When you can't afford what you need, the game's over. It's a ghastly,
corny drama. Eternal vigilance is the price of admission.

sheb
Forum Regular   posted 04-30-2001 12:44 PM
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Runneth,
So you believe that by downloading her pictures you are perpetuating her way
of life, which you do not agree with? Help me get a handle on how your
synapses are firing and I'll be less likely to address what you say.
Personally, I don't purchase adult videos (my wife and I have never had a
use for them), but if I were, I could see how that might affect Yulia's
(edit here: her) life. But why undertake these causes at all? Are you
looking for justification, absolution, or simply hope that someone reading
this will find those in your point of view and agree to boycott Yulia Nova?
Are you going to research the other stories behind the pictures you view,
looking for world-wide injustices, or will you turn a deaf ear (blind eye,
etc. ) towards those you may have already downloaded? I suspect that I, for
one, would not agree with the lifestyles of every person who poses nude for
a living, yet I enjoy nudity. I think that I will continue to enjoy the art
of the human form in all of its diversity despite their personal lives. If
you wish to continue this discussion on a personal level I will make my
e-mail available, if you do not already know it.
Thanks for your time and consideration,

sheb

[This message has been edited by sheb (edited 04-30-2001).]

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She should make one of them stolen home videos.

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Pacman

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #181 on: January 17, 2002, 06:14:00 PM »
Uh oh... I sense a post much longer than the one above jogging it's way over here by tomorrow morning.

As for my stance on this.... she looks young. I don't know how young. I know tons of girls who are out of college and so on who I still could mistake for being 15.

I don't buy into any theory until I see some definitive proof in the form of a copy of her identification or birth records, or she herself comes out and says so.

I've already looked at pictures of her without this issue on my mind. Am I supposed to feel dirty or what? And a fine time to tell us all this (if it is true) a year or so after we've all already looked at the pictures.

And now she's retarded too? Next month we're also going to find out she's a satanist and the first human clone at the rate this is going....

If by some stroke of god we do clear this up one way or the other, THEN WHAT?

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Pacman ]

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sheber

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #182 on: January 17, 2002, 07:25:00 PM »
Nope. I don't remember a thing. I must be olig....oli.....oh hell, I've forgotten the word.
[Rent this space]

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JustMeMike

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #183 on: January 17, 2002, 07:26:00 PM »
quote:
If by some stroke of god we do clear this up one way or the other, THEN WHAT?  

or WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

Well Shadowcom reversed his position. April 22nd 2001, he said that we should NOT ask Moderators and Webmasters to remove Y/N's photos. January 16th 2002 he said they should go because of the oligophrenia??

It is very difficult to balance all this isn't it?. On the one hand there's the attraction factor. On the other hand is the
unverified back story. What to do?

What do you do if by chance you find pictures of a wondrous model. Absolutely new to you. Never seen before. You download the photos. You exercise and gratify yourself. Lust is in your heart. Then someone floats a concept that this model has 'issues'. Do you immediately delete these files from your H.D.?

Maybe.

But how do you delete the lustful thoughts that already happened?

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: JustMeMike ]


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Imaginos

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #184 on: January 17, 2002, 08:45:00 PM »
Tough decisions....

I don't remember when she showed up and it may have been during a time i was offline for a bit dealing with RL issues. So i can't comment on this.  I can say...

The BEA doesn't condone [censored] pornography.

I personally think she looks just a weee bit young. Mentally handicapped or not, slavery or not. I don't really think we should have these images here.

What do the other moderators feel? How do the members feel?

I personally wouldn't pay 200$ for her vids :P

Imaginos


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shadowcom

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #185 on: January 18, 2002, 02:07:00 AM »
umuligtmand(UM): From where do you have this extensive knowledge of Ms Novas lot in life? You still haven´t answered this.....

Sorry, you want what ? Maybe the copy of her medical cart ? Or a copy of scientific research of YN life ? Certified by attorney in USA Ambassy in Moscow.  Or maybe her own story of life ? Also certified by attorney. Please, think, then you ask. If you need in independent information about her, come to Moscow and visit "Up-Down" night club (Tverskaya street), - you'll get all posible information there (as also you can buy some videos of her there).

UM: What about the woman I have just uploaded?

Just compare the expression of her eyes and the eyes of YN. Want you tell me, that you really don't see any difference ?

UM: She looks very naive, does that mean that she is?

1) She does not look naive. 2) She's not oligophrene.

And I still don´t have any reason to not believe that Yulia is 18. I have posted a row of pictures of girls that has been published as pinups in my countrys biggest selling newspaper, see if you can guess their ages?

1) I don't have any access to MG anymore. 2) Here we don't play games "guess my age". 3) Even if she's 18 y.o., it does not mean that her pictures should be dictributed.

To All: I say it again, - maybe I'm wrong, - but if some of you gets satisfaction, examining the pictures of ill girls ? Do you find it normal ?

MasterBalster: This was when YN first came to our attention. At that time, pictures were scarce, and video? Shadowcom didn't reference at all her age or mental capacity.

And I should ? Or maybe you have your own heads and your own eyes ? Or someone always should be behind and tell "this is right" or "this is wrong".

MasterBlaster: And I also recall from past years, Shadowcom led us to believe that he was a plastic surgeon living outside Paris. Now he is a pediatrician. Last month he held forth on penile growth drugs.

I'm pediatrist like medical specialist. Graduated from the 1st Moscow State University of medicine (USSR) in 1988. I don't live in Paris or outside Paris (you should be mad   to think it, because it's evident, that I don't have money for that) - but during these latest 10 years I had many long/short time stages there. But most of time I live and I work in Moscow. You should also know that even well qualified doctors in Russian Federation now have the level of salary about 1800-2100 RUR per month (about 70 USD). The same is for pediatrists in Moscow state medical centers, there I work. You should also understand that there is no chance to live and to work (as also to "make science") for this money (in Moscow, the normal salary level to survive should be about 200USD in RUR equivalent). Finally people is obliged to have theirs basical work and at the same time to have the private work. This one can be the work, based on theirs basical medical speciality (like dentists do it, having well-paid work in private medical centers) or medical specialists should learn any else medical speciality (because theirs basical medical speciality is useless in private medical centers - noone will pay there the services of  pediatrist) to gain money. The surgery was my second specility (also known with us like "military" speciality) during my education. And you also should understand well, that the single decision for me was to start to work in this field again (to use my "military" speciality in "civil" life). The plastic surgery is now a very well paid job. It took me almost 4 years of hard work in Rusian Federation and abroad, to become a good specilist in this field of medical activity and it help me to gain my life now. But I'm still work like pediatrist in one of state clinics of Moscow. You are surprised ? Me no, because in my country almost everyone now has the same style of life and of work. It's not the same situation, as in USA or in Western Europe (or even in Eastern Europe).
And the last one, - [censored] ren psychiatry in my country is one of fundamential bases of pediatrics and it stays the basical course in any program of  preparation of pediatrists and of theirs work. Why ? Becuase it's a job of pediatrist to definite the mental malady of [censored] . He's first, who should do it. And later - this is already a work of [censored] ren psychiatrist. But pediatrist should be always first - he's obliged to definite the malady, even if the parents of the [censored] don't suspect anything yet about it.

MasterBalster: Last month he held forth on penile growth drugs.

Yes. As also, you should remember, that this knowledge was based on the knowledge of some special (however, they are well-known to any [censored] ren doctor) modes of treatment of penile maladies in [censored] ren age (this is also the field of pediatrics, that any pediatrist is obliged to know) - I indicated it many times in my messages (deleted now by yourself or by some other Moderator) - that can be also used for adults. I really don't see here any problem. However, in USA, AFAIK, there are almost not generalists in applied medicine - the doctors know well one very narrow field of theirs specaility, and nothing more, - and this is a common point of view. Maybe your reaction originates from it. I don't know.

Conclusion: Are you satisfied ? Have I given the answers to your problem-questions about my life and my work ? As also about the reasons of my knowledge of question ? Or I should also present here the copy of my "work-card" and my international passport, certified by USA attorney ?

JMM: Well Shadowcom reversed his position. April 22nd 2001, he said that we should NOT ask Moderators and Webmasters to remove Y/N's photos. January 16th 2002 he said they should go because of the oligophrenia??
It is very difficult to balance all this isn't it?. On the one hand there's the attraction factor. On the other hand is the
unverified back story. What to do?

Please, read again my message (it was posted again by someone) and examine the reasons, why I asked Moderators to don't remove her pictures/videos.

To All: I'm sorry, but do you really have here all the "linear mode of reflections" only or there is someone here, who understands that I write (well, I understand, that my english is not your english, but the main ideas and the reasons of theirs apparition should be clear) ?
Every sitation has different points of view. My person.point of view is indicated in this current message ("stop YN postings"). But there is a point of view of YN's "owners" (vulg.) - if the pictures and videos of her will not bring money - the girl will become useless for them or can become a simple "toy" for reach men, or finally can finish her life, like hundreds girls in RF do it now.
Conclusion: Don't prevent the YN Internet business of porno-dealers (because it will make big problems to YN herself), but don't encourage it in BEA (because you are not (in general - I hope) - "PeDe(s)").
Is it clear to all ? The situation here is not so simple as some of you can it imagine, or present it to other members of BEA.

.

"You don't have to be old to be wise"

*

BillN

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #186 on: January 18, 2002, 03:01:00 AM »
So you're not a doctor, but you play one on BEA?  

Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #187 on: January 18, 2002, 03:16:00 AM »
Sure he's a real doctor.......in bizarro world! In his fantasy kingdom, he's the hoaxmaster general!!

Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #188 on: January 18, 2002, 05:54:00 AM »
Shadowcom:
Sorry, you want what ? Maybe the copy of her medical cart ? Or a copy of scientific research of YN life ? Certified by attorney in USA Ambassy in Moscow. Or maybe her own story of life ? Also certified by attorney. Please, think, then you ask. If you need in independent information about her, come to Moscow and visit "Up-Down" night club
(Tverskaya street), - you'll get all posible information there (as also you can buy some videos of her there).

Why would these alleged exploiters of women risk turning off customers by presenting this info, even if it were true?

It runs diametrically to the usual ways of the porn industry, where models are presented as willing and always horny.

And why would Tokyo Topless/Bachelor Magazine risk their business over one model?

Whats the legal age for nude pictures in Japan? And even if it were say, 16, and Yulia were of that age, wouldn´t they be running a big risk offering this material to american customers.

How come it took you so long, as somewhat of a specialist, to notice these alleged evident physical manifestations of low intelligence? You claim to have seen her in real life, even.

Wasn´t the club situated at Gorky street?

Why did you feel the need to tell me that I could buy her videos at said club?

And I´m not american, btw.

UM: What about the woman I have just uploaded?

Shadowcom:
Just compare the expression of her eyes and the eyes of YN. Want you tell me, that you really don't see any difference ?

No I don´t see any difference. In fact I´d say that the model in my example has a more naive and vacant look in her eyes. Not that I conclude that she is retarded, btw.

UM: She looks very naive, does that mean that she is?

Shadowcom:
1) She does not look naive.

Um, ok. It must be an illusion on the part of me and the site that presented her pictures, then(scoreland). The accompanying text to her layout, made a come-on out of her naive and innocent look.


Shadowcom:
2) She's not oligophrene.

Based on her cranial measuremants, I´m sure.

UM:
And I still don´t have any reason to not believe that Yulia is 18. I have posted a row of pictures of girls that has been published as pinups in my countrys biggest selling newspaper, see if you can guess their ages?

Shadowcom:
1) I don't have any access to MG anymore.

They are in the UG.

2) Here we don't play games "guess my age".

I was making the point that you can´t accurately guess the age of a woman by her looks. A valid one, I think, since it seems to be a concern for several here.

3) Even if she's 18 y.o., it does not mean that her pictures should be dictributed.

I agree, if your allegations were true.

Shadowcom:
To All: I say it again, - maybe I'm wrong, - but if some of you gets satisfaction, examining the pictures of ill girls ? Do you find it normal ?

I have no reason other than your word, to believe that she is mentally ill. Even if she were, it wouldn´t make her less physically attractive in my eyes. Am I supposed to feel bad about enjoying someones looks before having experienced their intelligence, or even after? If we go along this tangent, does that mean that retarded people only have a right to affection from people that are their mental equals? I do agree that if she were where ill, it would be and added disgusting detail to your exploitation allegations, though.


Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #189 on: January 18, 2002, 05:56:00 AM »
sorry, pac, it's at least a yard too short.  

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shadowcom

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #190 on: January 18, 2002, 10:36:00 AM »
To BillN:  
To Mammeistero:  

Kindern. Both.   One - young kind, other - old kind.

umuligtmand (UM):
SHAD: 1) I don't have any access to MG anymore.
UM: They are in the UG.

Only one of them (Retarded?.jpg) was in available for me in UG.

Anyway - I'm not an information desk here to give the answers to all your questions - about the reasons of interest of Tokyo Topless, etc. -it's not my business to think for them and analyze the reasons of theirs decisions, as also to give the answers to all other questions that you give me.
I presented here all information, that was necessary for any normal people to understand the reasons, why BEA is not a good place to post YN pictures. Even if there are not a lot of russian speakers here - for any normal medical specialist, who have seen YN videos (there were a lot of samples of them, posted recently in different news-groups of Internet, as also there were some samples, located at "hooters.dk"), who have seen her mode of movement and have heart her voice (even if this specialist does not speak russian), the situation with this girl becomes evident - any medical specialist (even if he's not psychiatrist) will say, that something is wrong with this girl. This girl is not mentally normal, - as I said it before already many times. If you are not specialist - you'll never understand why I have all reasons to tell it - you can only check the medical-books for more info about this malady - maybe in this case you'll understand it - as also, you can ask one of doctors-psychiatrists to clarify for you the YN case - it will be enough for him/her to see any of YN videos, - to see her mode of movement and to hear the intonations of her voice, - that to make the diagnostic. But, understand me right, - it's useless for me to explain you "using the fingers", why my point of view is correct - you don't know this malady, as also you are not a doctor.  If you were, - the question "yes or no ?" could not appear.

If you are her fan - well, noone can prohibit you to see her pictures, photos and videos, as also to create the fan club of her and to distribute an information about her anythere. But don't forget, that it will be the club in favour of ... mentally ill person. Maybe she's attractive in her youth and in her innocence - but she's ill. And you can't correct it by any action, even if you keep her illness in secret.

To All: Frankly, - sometimes very big problem comes from the idea, that people knows all, that you know yourself and that you have all reasons to consider evident, as also from the idea that people understands well each other, even if they speak the same language.

"You don't have to be old to be wise"

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3deroticer

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #191 on: January 18, 2002, 11:16:00 AM »
I dont get it?  shadow sees nothing wrong with advocating self injection of illegal drugs to a 16 year old for penis enlargement, but he does have a problem with Yulia Nova pictures being posted on the Web?

I was the one,as fars as I know, that wanted the post to be removed because of the detail information that you were advising on penis enlargement, which I thought were too much about advocating drugs abuse then about BE forum. I had no idea who you were shadow, but now I see how you are and I would assume that most of us have come to the same conclusion that you are somewhat different.
If you want to talk about responsibilty, clean your own backyard first, then maybe we will be more apt to listen to your bullshit!

"Yesterday, Reince Priebus called this whole story a 'nothing burger,'" he said. "Well these emails have turned it into an all-you-can-prosecute buffet."

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Pacman

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #192 on: January 18, 2002, 11:39:00 AM »
Shadowcom obviously has a decent vocabulary and and understanding of many things, but what he seems to not understand here is that regardless of his occupation or knowledge he has still offered us no evidence on this subject besides his own opinion.

Is it a normal practice for a doctor to give a diagnosis to someone based on pictures or video? Maybe it is, that's not my field.

And while you certainly may be a doctor please understand that this is the internet, and a great deal of people won't believe you regardless of what terms you use.

But what boggles my mind is why someone who wants these materials to "go away" so badly would continue to keep this topic at the top of forum totem pole, constantly reminds us of how much these videos are, and also makes sure to mention where we can get them.

If he is correct, I also support not allowing her pictures here, but all we have to go by is someones word, and not definitive proof.

To sum it up, you say you're a doctor, you say she's **08**, you say she's retarded.

You have yet to provide any proof of any of these things. I can tell you all I'm going to be starring in the next Lord of the Rings movie as Jar Jar Binks. That doesn't mean it's true.

For art and photos:
http://pacman9920.deviantart.com
I remember blogs before blogs existed:
http://logg64.wordpress.com/

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Elliot James

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Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #193 on: January 18, 2002, 11:51:00 AM »
To answer D'Art, we know absolutely nothing about Nova's background and circumstances. There's been some basic introductory communication with the Japanese gentleman who is her (sole) photographer.
Elliot James
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https://twitter.com/elliot_james_

Re: Yulia Nova MASTER thread MERGED
« Reply #194 on: January 19, 2002, 01:14:00 AM »
OK so I'm going on a bit of confusion here. In short what are we arguing about, her metal status, or her age?

You all know I think she's a bit on the young side (and that's putting it mildly), so I'll go on what I've observed over the years, and absorbed as to facial structure.

From what I can guess:

Men and women undergo more or less the same facial structure changes at puberty, but in different sections of the face. We men get more pronounced brow ridges (not neadethal things mind) and our jaws widen. Women build less slightly around the jaw (more towards angular that robust as with men) and on the cheak bones.

Yes I know people grow at different rates BUT I see none of these structural changes with the person in question. Point of fact I knew someone at school in the first year who was well into puberty by the time he was 11 years old but at that age you think nothing of it.

My point is that until someone can catagorically prove her age and a VALID excuse for her looking so YOUNG without sad crappy excuses of mental conditions (talk about lame) my belief stands that we should not have this individual anywhere near any of the galleries in the archive for the sake of acceptable decency.

Other images are a matter for our own morallity, but not THIS.

Invis.

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: invisible pervert ]