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gonZo

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2014, 04:03:52 PM »
Because he's not too bright.

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TheZookie007

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2014, 06:21:44 PM »
Yeah, how can you say you don't recognize the United States of America, and yet you live in one of those states in that country? He doesn't live in the country of Nevada, after all.

None too bright, indeed.
AOC, HC, TW, BO, KH: FU. FUATH. 100x.

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Liam

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2014, 01:05:24 PM »
CNN is showing a special "Witnessed: The Killings at Kent State" Sunday 7 PM EST.

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Zorro

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2014, 06:53:41 PM »
http://www.teaparty.org/blm-land-battles-reach-beyond-bundy-40992/

MAY 2, 2014 10:41 PM 
BIG GOVERNMENT
(Fox News) – It’s the most powerful agency you’ve never heard of — at least, until recently.

The Bureau of Land Management, the nation’s biggest landlord, found itself in the spotlight after a high-profile brawl with Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and another dispute with state officials over the Texas-Oklahoma borderlands.

But the seemingly obscure agency, which is in charge of millions of acres of public land, is no stranger to controversy. History shows the power struggle over property rights and land use is one that’s been fought — fiercely — ever since the bureau was created.

SPECIAL: Modern Day Patriots, this is the time to stand shoulder to shoulder with our forefathers in Lexington and Concord. We need the Tea Party now more than ever.

In the nearly seven decades of its existence, the BLM has struggled to find its footing and exert its power, pitted against a vocal states’ rights movement.

“The federal government already owns too much land,” Texas Gov. Rick Perry, one of the champions of that modern-day movement, recently told Fox News. He called for the federal government, and by extension the BLM, to “divest itself of a huge amount of this landholdings that it has across the country.”

The Bureau of Land Management was formed in 1946, consolidating two now-extinct agencies into one for the purpose of overseeing public land. In the beginning, the BLM mostly focused on livestock and mines. Its mission shifted, though, in the 1970s when it took on the role of mediator between commerce and conservation, and faced a second identity crisis in the 1980s. That’s when the so-called Sagebrush Rebellion gained new momentum in its push to return control of federal lands to individual states.

That “rebellion” may be underway once again, as states renew concerns about the amount of land controlled by the BLM. Congress also recently weighed in, with House lawmakers passing a bill in February that would prevent the BLM from buying new land.

Currently, the agency, which falls under the purview of the U.S. Department of Interior, oversees 247.3 million acres — or about one-eighth of the land in the country.

It also owns 700 million acres of on-shore federal mineral estates.

The BLM is responsible for managing a large spectrum of natural resources. The federal agency regulates logging, mining and fracking practices across the country. It also administers close to 18,000 permits and leases a year held by ranchers who graze their livestock on land managed by the federal government. The permits and leases they issue usually last a decade and can be renewed.

In 2009, regulation of public lands in Western states generated $6.2 billion.

By acreage, the agency’s largest stake is in Alaska where it owns 72.4 million acres. Nevada ranks second, with 48 million acres under the BLM, and then Utah, with 22.9 million acres.

In Nevada, rancher Cliven Bundy’s recent refusal to hand over his family’s cattle to the feds re-ignited the national debate over the BLM’s power.

On the heels of that controversy, more than 50 lawmakers from nine Western states came together to protest federal land expansion. The state leaders discussed ways to combine their joint goals of taking control of oil-, timber- and mineral-rich lands away from the federal government.

“It’s so much bigger than Bundy. There are issues … all across the West where the federal government is exerting control over things it was ever supposed to control,” Utah state Rep. Ken Ivory told Fox News. “The federal government was supposed to be a trustee. They do own the land. They do hold title to the land in trust … but they have a duty to dispose of the land with all states east of Colorado.”

Ivory says he wants the federal government to keep a promise it made in the 1894 Enabling Act that made Utah a state. He argues that public lands, except for congressionally designated national parks and wilderness areas, should be transferred back to the states.

So far, state lawmakers in Idaho, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Wyoming, Oregon and Washington are looking for ways to transfer land management back to the states.

Utah, though, has been the most successful. Lawmakers there passed a measure demanding the federal government extinguish title to federal lands, aside from national parks. Ivory was also the primary backer of the 2012 Transfer of Public Lands Act which established a model for the transfer of certain federal lands to the state in the coming years.

The Bundy case has been largely viewed as the first leadership test for new BLM Director Neil Kornze, who was confirmed by the U.S. Senate and sworn into office in April. The local land-use dust-up fed into a growing apprehension over just how much authority the BLM has and how far it is willing to go to maintain control.

In Texas, Attorney General Greg Abbott sent a letter to Kornze looking into allegations the BLM was eyeing a massive land grab in northern Texas. “Decisions of this magnitude must not be made inside a bureaucratic black box,” wrote Abbott, a GOP gubernatorial candidate.

The agency indicated that the land in question was determined to be public property. “The BLM is categorically not expanding Federal holdings along the Red River,” a BLM spokeswoman said in a written statement.

Attention on the Bundy-BLM battle has lately turned to racially insensitive remarks that Bundy made in several media interviews and appearances.

Conservative and libertarian lawmakers like Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, initially came to Bundy’s defense, calling his situation the latest example of big government overreach.  Both, though, have since scaled back their comments in light of Bundy’s remarks.

“Senator Paul spoke out against federal over-regulation and BLM handling of a situation,” Paul spokesman Doug Stafford said in a written statement. “He has never spoken to or met Mr. Bundy and is not responsible for the vile comments that come out of his mouth.”

Others say Bundy was at fault, failing to pay $1.1 million in fees for letting his cattle graze on government grass for more than two decades.

“I wish Mr. Bundy would mind his law requirements and not try to play to the television cameras about confronting the evil federal government,” former BLM director Patrick Shea told KSL TV. Shea has been on both sides of the land-use debate. He represented activist Tim DeChristopher who took on the BLM over the 2008 sale of controversial oil and gas leases in Utah.

The BLM has run into trouble elsewhere.

In March, BLM officials rounded up a horse herd in Wyoming after area ranchers and farmers complained that the herd grazed down pastures and damaged cattle rangeland. The horses were turned over to Wyoming officials. The state then quickly sold all 41 horses to a Canadian slaughterhouse. Animal rights groups protested the sale and slaughter.

A year earlier, BLM agents in Nevada announced they would be removing 50 wild horses from a herd that had grown too large to be sustained.

But the complaints go beyond horses. In 2011, several Utah counties filed a lawsuit against the agency over exceeding its authority by establishing wilderness protections without the consent of Congress.

Back in the nation’s capital, House lawmakers passed a package in February that includes a collection of public land access and restoration provisions. They also adopted two amendments that extend the length of grazing permits on federal lands to 20 years from 10 years and also allow expired or transferred permits to remain effective until new ones can be issued.

Calls to the BLM for comment were not returned.
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pedonbio

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2014, 08:33:32 PM »
If, as Fox News says at the beginning of the article, a reader has never heard of the BLM, the reader is exceptionally ignorant of their own government, and could better spend time reading about that instead of the mindless bloviation of Fox News.

Incidentally, the seventh paragraph is intentionally misleading. The BLM is a reorganization of the original "Land Office" created during the Confederation period. It predates the Constitution.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 08:38:55 PM by pedonbio »
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.

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Zorro

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2014, 08:42:59 PM »
Ridicule and put down the sources all you want.

At least I provide links to what I post.
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pedonbio

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2014, 07:17:29 PM »
It wasn't meant as a putdown at all, Zorro. But west of the Mississippi River, saying "maybe you've never heard of the BLM" is like saying "maybe you've never heard of Congress".
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.

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Lesbian Bob

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2014, 02:53:27 AM »
Don't pay government subsidized rent for 20 years - Fox says you're just a bum.

Don't pay government subsidized rent for 20 years but wave an American flag and a bunch of guns - Fox says you're a patriot.

Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2014, 04:02:38 AM »
Don't pay government subsidized rent for 20 years - Fox says you're just a bum.

Don't pay government subsidized rent for 20 years but wave an American flag and a bunch of guns - Fox says you're a patriot.

But only when a Black Democrat is in office. If this was back under Dubya, why, that man's a turrorust!

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rtpoe

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2014, 08:48:04 PM »
The battle is moving to Utah. Recapture Canyon in San Juan County, to be specific.

A couple of years ago, the BLM closed the canyon to ATVs, citing damage to archaeologically sensitive sites (1,800 year old Anasazi and Pueblo ruins). It would still be open to hiking. However, a large number of area residents are upset with the BLM in general and plan a "rally" and ride on an illegally made ATV trail in the canyon. Members of the Bundy family have put the word out to their supporters to join the rally.

The BLM is very unpopular in the community. Employees have had their property damaged by ATVs, and have even had their homes shot at. The county has had an application in with the BLM to build an ATV trail in the canyon for several years, but it's been delayed by revisions and environmental reviews.

The BLM is not going to call in marshals to block the ride (citing the obvious safety concerns), but they do intend to prosecute the riders afterwards. "The BLM-Utah has not and will not authorize the proposed ride and will seek all appropriate civil and criminal penalties against anyone who uses a motorized vehicle within the closed area," said Juan Palma, director of the BLM in Utah.

There are two really stupid things about all this. First, there are already over 2,800 miles of ATV trails on public lands in the area. These protesters are just being petty and selfish. And finally, if anyone's got a beef with the Federal government in the area, it's the Navajos. And they are opposed to the trail. Navajo Nation Utah Chapter Chairman Willie Grayeyes referred to the canyon as his tribe’s "grocery store" noting that they gather medicinal herbs, roots, and berries in the area as well as hunt and hold ceremonies. "We don’t want it to be disturbed and invaded," Grayeyes said.

More here and here.
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance

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Zorro

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New Mexico County Defies Feds In Another Ranching Dispute
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2014, 09:16:37 PM »
May 14, 2014 by Ben Bullard 
 
The governing body of a rural county in southern New Mexico threw down the gauntlet against the Feds this week in another land use dispute, voting to defy the U.S. Forest Service by granting local ranchers access to a watering hole for cattle that the Forest Service had gated and declared off limits.
In a 2-0 vote, the Otero County commission agreed to authorize the county sheriff to open the disputed gate, clearing the way for approximately 200 cattle to venture into a 23-acre area the Forest Service had, for years, quarantined to protect a natural spring and the meadow jumping mouse, which inhabits the area.
“We are reacting to the infringement of the U.S. Forest Service on the water rights of our land-allotment owners,” Otero County Commissioner Tommie Herrell told the Reuters news service. “People have been grazing there since 1956.”
“The winds are blowing, we’re in a drought. Sacramento Mountains are dry. So whatever water source these animals can find, they have to be able to get to it,” fellow commissioner Susan Flores told KVIA news earlier this month.
A Forest Service supervisor told KVIA that both parties in the dispute had remained civil in their disagreement so far, assuaging present concerns that the land-rights battle will take on the acrimonious tenor of the Nevada dispute involving Cliven Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management.
“We all recognize that there are different ideas and value systems at play here,” Travis Moseley said, “and I respect that.”

http://personalliberty.com/new-mexico-county-defies-feds-another-ranching-dispute/
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rtpoe

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2014, 09:53:43 PM »
Here's a bit more on that story:

http://www.alamogordonews.com/alamogordo-news/ci_25702517/commissioners-instruct-sheriff-unlock-forest-gates

Nice to see everyone behaving civilly in the affair. The ranchers do present a good case for being allowed to use the land; let's hope that they take good care of it.

By the way, as global warming makes these droughts longer and more intense, expect to see more conflicts over water rights in the region....
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance

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Zorro

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FBI Opens Investigation into Bundy Militia
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2014, 07:30:20 AM »
The FBI is now getting involved in the standoff that happened in Bunkerville, Nevada last month. But it’s not to investigate the BLM or the heavy-handed tactics used against the Bundy family.

Rather, it is to investigate Cliven Bundy and all the individual patriots who formed the militia that protected the Bundy family during the standoff.



During the standoff, the militia never fired a bullet and never damaged BLM equipment or property.

On the other hand, the BLM attacked, punched, and tased unarmed protesters. They vandalized private property. They tore down fences and even killed a large part of Bundy’s herd.

So why is the FBI going after the militia instead of the BLM? Because it’s against federal law for a citizen to point a weapon at a federal agent or official.

The FBI doesn’t seem to care what the BLM agents did, no matter how cruel or unjust their actions may have been. All they care about is punishing those people who were courageous enough to defend the Bundy family.

From the beginning of the conflict, local police were essentially unresponsive to the situation. If they had exercised their authority appropriately — and kicked the BLM out — the militia might never have shown up.

But when state authorities would not stand up for the Bundy family, hundreds of patriotic Americans showed up to defend them. Many carried weapons in case the situation escalated. This is what has earned them the attention of the FBI. KLAS-TV reports:

According to the assistant Sheriff, Joe Lombardo “federal authorities are conducting an investigation and I am pretty confident it is going to go into the future.” He said “there is definitely going to be consequences” for Bundy supporters who responded to the BLM presence by carrying firearms.

Keep in mind many local residents were thankful for the militia’s presence at Bunkerville and took time to say so.

“I want to tell every one of them militia thank you,” one resident said. “Because not one of our government officials, not one of our sheriffs or Metro[politian Police Department] would have saved us that day. They didn’t save us that day,” KVVU-YV in Las Vegas reported on May 2.



The double standard here is clear.

The militia were not the aggressors. They came not to attack, but to defend against the BLM’s aggression. Yet they will be investigated and the BLM will not.

At this point, the FBI has made no decisions other than to open an investigation and see if Bundy and his supporters are in need of prosecution. It will be a developing story worth watching.


http://survivaljoe.net/blog/fbi-opens-investigation-into-bundy-militia/?utm_source=140517SJ1&utm_campaign=140517SJ1
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pedonbio

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2014, 06:51:56 PM »
.
Someday, chi1dren, this entire fuck-up will be yours.

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rtpoe

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Re: The Bundy Ranch/Ruby Ridge
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2014, 10:18:50 PM »
These days, when I see a "news" item posted on a personal blog, my first step is to go look for a local news source.

A personal blog, or a national source, need not necessarily be objective when reporting on an issue. They've got a built-in audience, and if they tick off some people, those offended will just go away. It won't have a significant effect on their readership.

But a local paper really has to be careful. Get too biased in your reporting, and you risk offending important people. Like all the local businesses who advertise with you.

I'm willing to bet that local newspapers give better coverage than people with blogs who knows how far away from the action.

Anyway, here's what the Las Vegas Review-Journal has to say:

FBI agents have opened a criminal investigation into the April 12 confrontation between Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy and his armed supporters and law enforcement authorities, Sheriff Doug Gillespie confirmed Thursday.

Gillespie said the FBI is investigating allegations of threats and assaults on law enforcement officers who were at the scene of the confrontation.

He said agents expected to interview every law enforcement officer who was present during the April 12 showdown. That includes agents with the BLM and a slew of Las Vegas police officers who were there to keep the peace.

Among those interviewed within the past week were assistant sheriffs Joe Lombardo and Kevin McMahill, who were in charge of police officers at the scene of the disturbance.

Agents, he said, were primarily interested in who was pointing weapons at federal agents.

He said he expected agents to be poring over videotapes and photos taken during the confrontation as part of their efforts to identify people making threats.

FBI agents on Tuesday began interviewing the two dozen uniformed and SWAT officers who were present during the standoff, Lombardo said.

The assistant sheriff said he agreed with Gillespie’s assessment of the federal investigation.

“They have a certain standard of what they believe is a violation of the law,” he said. “You can’t expect the federal government to walk away.”


http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/bundy-blm/sheriff-fbi-investigating-threats-made-law-enforcement-during-bundy-showdown

Note that the Review Journal now has a special heading/tag - "Bundy-BLM" - covering all their stories on this issue.

I note that the investigation of the "militia" does not automatically mean that the allegations against BLM agents will not be investigated.
rtpoe

Well, it's a marvelous night for a Moondance
With the stars up above in your eyes
A fantabulous night to make romance
'Neath the cover of October skies
And all the leaves on the trees are falling
To the sound of the breezes that blow...

Van Morrison, Moondance